Hearthpwn

So I am aware that the new card Countess Ashmore only pulls cards from your deck that inherently have lifesteal or deathrattle or rush, not cards that just have the text in the name. BUT what if, with Prince Keleseth you give the Paragon of Light +1/+1 IN YOUR DECK, as the Cards' text reads "Has Taunt and Lifesteal while it has 3 or more attack", would she draw the Paragon of Light then?!

I've looked and we've never, EVER had a card like this before, with an effect given by stats effect, so we have no basis to draw (hehe pun) upon to compare this too. Tbh I'm just curious, the card looks fantastic and I'm curious how the interaction would play out. 

What is this, I thought we learned our lesson with druid both player-mechanics 

Let me just preface this with how I preface all of my posts: ~5000 ranked wins, 2100 of them paladin wins, played since release yadda yadda long story short I know what I'm talking about.

I'll start by saying all of these are GOOD changes by themselves, each was necessary for the enjoyment of the game, these cards were brokenly overpowered. However, taken as a whole there is a BIG problem here, or more importantly, with whats NOT here. There are all good nerfs, if you nerf WARLOCK along with them.

We saw this last round of nerfs, Murloc Warleader/Murloc Paladin got nerfed, and the control decks like Priest got out of hand where Murloc Paladin used to keep them in check. Now Raza priest, the one solid counter to Cube/Contol warlock, just lost its best combo, and you do NOTHING to Warlock?! Blizzard needs to learn from its past mistakes and start nerfing evenly, the Tempo and combo decks just lost a lot so guess whos gonna be on top? Sweaty, Sweaty control decks. Because now if you weren't tired of seeing a lot of Warlock before, then my god will I get tired of hearing Danni-Boi's voice until April. 

I see a lot of people talking and disagreeing with me, and i blame myself for not being clear enough on my points, so amendment to the rant 

1) I DID forget handbuff paladin, but for me even if it is a little more in-depth it still is curvestone 

2) When I say "worst class", as you'd see in the original post, I don't mean just not high win rates, I mean not FUN. I LOVE quest paladin for fun, but my god is it bad. Murloc paladin is viable yes but its curvestone, not like a value raza deck or intricate quest mage, no real decision making.

3) Ok, I will admit I didn't know murloc paladin was doing so well for itself post-nerf, i strayed away from the archtype after the warleader nerf, but my point on the non fun still stands imo

I do love all the feedback, I truly do love the class, and to see people still finding fun in it when I cant gives me hope for my own fun in the future. So, thank you! :D

Quote from tikoponde >>

I find it funny when people come here disagreeing, obviously they are not paladin main and only play murlocadin to climb the ladder.

I have 1300+ wins with paladin, and my second most played class is druid (700 wins).

I totally agree with what you said, paladin is a joke. The only moment it had a competitive deck was after un'goro's release, a control paladin.

Paladin has no tempo cards, no late game value (compared to other classes), the only board clear is a 2 card combo that also "clears" your side.

The early game is another joke. Even when we had shielded mini bot and coghammer (two strong early game cards) we didnt have enough. First, because if we didnt draw them it would be GG. Second, the other classes have a really strong early game.

I gotta say that the hand buff was a total failure, and the DK as well.

The hand buff is a loss of tempo that does not guarantee you a win.

The DK "combo" is so strong that they did not have the balls to create cards in order to support it. (And if they did, it would not be OP, cause mage has cards to support a 100% win combo).

Paladin needs more sinergy. Maybe if the next legendaries bring something new, that could allow us to build decks around, instead of single value like tirion, ragnarus, quest or Lynessa Sunsorrow. Dont get me wrong, these cards are really powerful, but not enough to win you games.

I have said this in other topic, but it's worth recapping, we need legendaries with abilities such as:

- At the end of your turn, give your minions divine shield

- Whenever a friendly minion attacks, give it divine shield

- Whenever your hero attacks, give your minions X.

These are simple ideas that could make the difference.

Besides that, I believe paladin needs cheap board clears and early game presence.

 

Quote from AliceisMasquerade >>

Quote from SirRandsborg >>

2 mana spell, give a friendly minion divine shield or deal 3 damage to an enemy minion

Good luck getting the rights from Druid.

Quote from SirRandsborg >>

5 mana  4/7 dragon, Taunt, only you can target this minion with spells and hero powers.

The one they have now is an epic, and it's a 4-mana 3/3. They would never allow this to exist with those stats/cost. And why can't you just be happy with the unicorn like everybody else?

Quote from SirRandsborg >>

 

It's sad to see my favorite class hit rock bottom from the downwards slope its been riding since GVG, but here we are, the worst paladin meta ever. I'll see you all next expansion with crossed fingers. 

And no, I'm not being pessimistic about the new meta, I'm being realistic. Whatever comes out on top, it will beat paladin, because EVERYTHING beats Paladin now. 

 New expansion hasn't even been out for 24 hours yet...

Quote from notsoclutch >>

I think you are just bored of the class.  2000 games is a lot.  

my response is the Tempo loss you get when they do silence it, yes there is a lot to silence but against say a Raza Preist, if they stall long enough you won't have time to play out all of your threats. That and throwing all those silenceable targets ups the mana curve, which you need with paladin to have any kind of success on the ladder nowadays. 

Let me preface this rant by saying Paladin is all I play, I just hit 2000 ranked wins with the class and I've been playing since Pre-Nax. Having said this I can say for certain that it is the worst class in Hearthstone, and has been for way too long, not in terms of viability but in terms of fun even during the rare times it is playable

I'm so sick and tired of paladin not having either removal outside equality or a viable late game value-generating effect, and NO the new legendary weapon isn't nearly as good as other classes value effects. The class is unplayable as a control deck and a bad murloc agro deck after the nerf to Warleader, it's like Blizzard doesn't even listen to its players.

Bad early game? Don't worry here's a 2 mana 2! "Um blizzard we need more for Paladin early game can we mayyyyyybbbeee get shielded minibot bac-" DID SOMEONE SAY 2 MANA 1/1 Diregultch Jailor?!. Oh btw we're giving every other class better late game and board clears then you but its ok because you have suuuuuucccchhhhh good legendaries they'll make up the difference.

I have come to the conclusion that not a single person at Blizzard plays Paladin. Because they make the class teir two/three, but not just teir two/three, but unfun teir two/three as well. The class is boring. Theres no random Lyra the Sunshard effects to spice up play, no (anywhere close to viable) OTK like mage, nothing to make any game different from the last. You do decent if you curve well, and thats it. Secret paladin was a boring curve deck, murloc paladin was a boring curve deck.....annnnd thats all the paladin decks that were ever viable. Midrange paladin was a masterpeice of a deck by blizzard, and it was the most fun I've ever had with the class and probably in the game. The quest was bull, the DK was too slow, and now we're stuck as a class with great and interesting legendaries with no support for them.

My recommendation? 2 cards:

2 mana spell, give a friendly minion divine shield or deal 3 damage to an enemy minion

5 mana  4/7 dragon, Taunt, only you can target this minion with spells and hero powers.

Of course, these cards are broken and overpowered, but then again look at Raza with Shadowreaper, the mage quest, or hey JADE ANYTHING. Blizzard needs to stop pushing stupid, bad, and uninteresting themes down Paladin players throats, like healing or recruit cards. The best decks kill you before you can heal, there are so many board clears in the game that your 1/1 recruits die instantly, and there are enough silence /removal cards to make it so buffs are 100% useless. For gods sake people are cutting spikeridged steed in decks and you give us Lynessa Sunsorrow?! Do you even play your own game blizzard?!

It's sad to see my favorite class hit rock bottom from the downwards slope its been riding since GVG, but here we are, the worst paladin meta ever. I'll see you all next expansion with crossed fingers. 

And no, I'm not being pessimistic about the new meta, I'm being realistic. Whatever comes out on top, it will beat paladin, because EVERYTHING beats Paladin now. 

Alright thats my rant, Discuss

Until you get hit by a Duskbreaker 4 mana 3/3 dragon that clears your entire board (save for a 1/1 divine shield-less taunt) Or a Shadow Word: Horror, or a billion other AOE's. 

Paladins are a board centric class and board-centric classes suffer horribly in the current metagame. Also on the Wild Pyro point, when you use a spell to summon a Wild Pyro in other classes like Priest with resurrecting, the effect goes off, can someone else confirm this how do the spell and wild pyro interact? Regardless you don't want to pull it, making the equality combo unplayable with this card. The point about thinning the deck is a fair one I'll admit, but this card doesn't push Paladin in the right direction, that is board flooding, instead of massive infinite value like from other classes like Preist and Jade Druid.

I'm tired of Paladins getting trash cards and amazing legendaries that I can't play because the rest of the class's cards don't support it. Even murloc paladin, an amazing deck, was nurfed, moving the viable number of Paladin decks down to 0.

In conclusion, because of all this, this card is HOT GARBAGE   promoting a weak strategy in a board clear/value based metagame for an already board reliant class instead of being something interesting and new. 

Paladin has a really awful basic/classic set and they could definitely do a lot of work to improve it like they did with priest. (And I hope they do that next)

I think it makes sense for Paladin to have a lot less combo cards, and be like priest where their cards all work really well within a vacuum. And then most of their card draw being card generation because they just have an overall very strong set of individually powerful cards. I think that also fits the flavour of being "holy".

I agree with almost everything you said, just some minor details, will discuss it when I wake up cause I got to sleep now. I am on more than 3600 paladin wins, and I just can't believe what they gave us. Some cards are very good don't get me wrong, but the potential is way higher. 

Please post this on Reddit. Maybe even r/CompetitiveWoW for more constructive feedback. Find the best time so both Europe and US will see it. 

8 classes got "Studies" discover spell except Demon Hunter and Paladin right? DH is understandable because its kinda in different dimension than other classes but why the hell they doing this Paladin? Couldnt it be something like Discover Libram card or something?

They literally printed 2 kind of cards for Paladin. For BIG DUEL Paladin or Buff spell Paladin which is cannot be merged together. You need cheap minions to buff you idiots. You cant keep board clear until you draw your Duel with Paladin 3 or 4 times board clear combos while others classes throwing infinite resources to you.

I guess we try more murloc Paladin next year while other classes got aoe removals 

I played 5 years of Hearthstone and always been a huge Paladin fan. For a f2p player i gave heart and effort to collect full golden Paladin set of every single expansion. In just last 2 years i mained OTK Shirvallah Paladin in Galakrond madness , i was working on Secret and Quest Paladin while Reno /Highlander/ getting 60% winrate. Every single time i see Paladin card reveal it just got countered or just powercreeped by common card from other class. 

After soo much effort first time im thinking about disenchant this goddamn sucked golden collection and just play Hunter or Warrior like others.

Share your thoughts about Paladin cards with me :)

I counted and SIX of the ten classes have access to class specific “Draw 2 or more” cards just from the new expansion: Demon Hunter, Druid, Mage, Rogue, Warrior, and even Shaman when combined with their Double battlecry hero power. And Warlock always has draw power from their hero power. SEVEN CLASSES with multiple drawing and Paladin has next to nothing.  That’s very unfair to Paladin.

they are pushing for a big/control pala. mech murloc duel dragon secret  heal libram buff they've got literally no idea what to do with paladin. Next exp we'll see treant paladin :) 

I mean shaman was always a bad class in design. The class was either overpowered or underpowered. And now the devs want to focus on spells. I personally prefer they kept battlecries a thing for shaman to support their Quest.

Paladin just got hit over the years with a lot of nerfs to their basic set. I really think their basic and classic set deserves a rework or buffs. Maybe make equality 2 mana again for example.

Quote from Demon723 >>

I do find it strange that they added the Libram archetype and did nothing with it. Hell we didnt even get a Libram legendary which i thought was strange as well. They introduced pure Paladin but havent followed up with that either. Both archetypes are seeing a lot of play and have pretty high win rates yet get no attention. I agree 100% either Blizzard doesnt know what to do with Paladin or they simply dont care.  

To be fair, Lady Liadrin essentially functions as a "Libram legendary." Her card text doesn't include the word "libram," but her primary use is to fill your hand with Libram of Wisdom and Libram of Hope cards that you've been playing at a discount the whole game.

That certainly doesn't address the myriad issues brought up by OP, but I don't think "we didn't get a Libram legendary" is accurate.

Aaaah yess, the perfect card to give paladin after A New Challenger... has rotated.

yeah I think paladin and shaman are suffering cause of bad design. paladin was really funny to play ( sorry guys but libram and murloc are boring a f to play with and against) and shaman got nerfed badly maybe too much. there's no point introducing a new powerful  class (DH) when you kill other 2 or 3. I guess hearthstone won't reach ever again the beauty and fun  of journey to un'goro and knights of the frozen throne

no card draw, no real aoe or clears.. still a big problem for pala. a few strong cards wont change anything.

it wont fit into current decks anyway. what u gonna cut for it