Winning is fun - Palladin has got to be my winningest class. They have all the best tools - a nice balances playstyle and lots of deckbuilding options.
They got pretty great stuff from the expansion.
They have access to a fair number of memes (murlocs, DK horsemen, Quest, bubbles).
I questions OP's statement that she has truly played Palladin - and in any case, this belongs in the salt mines.
I don't get how someone who only plays one class, and to that extent as-well, thinks he has the ability to conclude that his class is the worst of all the others. Have no one ever heard about fundamental attribution error? While you might be right, your complaints should not hold any credibility as long as you are not coming from an informed position.
Btw, I agree with the others that say its more likely that your tired of paladin, why don't you try another class or worst case; another game?
"Murloc paladin has been bad since the warleader nerf"
Except, you know, that is was arguably the strongest deck even after the nerf. It's been tier 1 for ages, you're either lying or delusional. Handbuff is weaker but still better than anything warrior or shaman has
btw look at shaman for bad cards tried to theorycraft an overload ahaman and it failed in theorycraftimg phase, totem shaman seems a dream and tokens are ok, didn't got much new stuff, only elemental shaman is worth experimentation
I see a lot of people talking and disagreeing with me, and i blame myself for not being clear enough on my points, so amendment to the rant
1) I DID forget handbuff paladin, but for me even if it is a little more in-depth it still is curvestone
2) When I say "worst class", as you'd see in the original post, I don't mean just not high win rates, I mean not FUN. I LOVE quest paladin for fun, but my god is it bad. Murloc paladin is viable yes but its curvestone, not like a value raza deck or intricate quest mage, no real decision making.
3) Ok, I will admit I didn't know murloc paladin was doing so well for itself post-nerf, i strayed away from the archtype after the warleader nerf, but my point on the non fun still stands imo
I do love all the feedback, I truly do love the class, and to see people still finding fun in it when I cant gives me hope for my own fun in the future. So, thank you! :D
I find it funny when people come here disagreeing, obviously they are not paladin main and only play murlocadin to climb the ladder.
I have 1300+ wins with paladin, and my second most played class is druid (700 wins).
I totally agree with what you said, paladin is a joke. The only moment it had a competitive deck was after un'goro's release, a control paladin.
Paladin has no tempo cards, no late game value (compared to other classes), the only board clear is a 2 card combo that also "clears" your side.
The early game is another joke. Even when we had shielded mini bot and coghammer (two strong early game cards) we didnt have enough. First, because if we didnt draw them it would be GG. Second, the other classes have a really strong early game.
I gotta say that the hand buff was a total failure, and the DK as well.
The hand buff is a loss of tempo that does not guarantee you a win.
The DK "combo" is so strong that they did not have the balls to create cards in order to support it. (And if they did, it would not be OP, cause mage has cards to support a 100% win combo).
Paladin needs more sinergy. Maybe if the next legendaries bring something new, that could allow us to build decks around, instead of single value like tirion, ragnarus, quest or Lynessa Sunsorrow. Dont get me wrong, these cards are really powerful, but not enough to win you games.
I have said this in other topic, but it's worth recapping, we need legendaries with abilities such as:
- At the end of your turn, give your minions divine shield
- Whenever a friendly minion attacks, give it divine shield
- Whenever your hero attacks, give your minions X.
These are simple ideas that could make the difference.
Besides that, I believe paladin needs cheap board clears and early game presence.
The solution is so simple: stop playing just pally, and switch to other classes. I believe that none of us is really a paladin, a hunter or a warrior in real life, that has to play just whit his specific class for healt reasons, and nothing bad will happen after trying out a new one. The game is yours, all the classes are included in the game, and all the classes can be fun. It is a card game, besides of the hero power and a few cards, the mechanic is always the same: play cards and win the game. I don't believe that you can have fun just if your button summons a 1-1. You can always say "I have enough fun just playing pally so it's ok to me!" but this doesn't seems to be the case.
Let me preface this rant by saying Paladin is all I play, I just hit 2000 ranked wins with the class and I've been playing since Pre-Nax. Having said this I can say for certain that it is the worst class in Hearthstone, and has been for way too long, not in terms of viability but in terms of fun even during the rare times it is playable (...)
Have you ever considered playing with other classes?
I mean, you don't even consider paladin fun anymore. Maybe it's time for a break. It's not like you're engaged with Uther.
I don't like paladin right now. Personally, I think murloc synergy is very unthematic with paladin. Paladins should be tough guys with a lot of board presence, with though minions as well. Not vomit murlocs from your hand.
Oh, and silverhand paladin? Yeah, that archetype was dead as soon as Psychic Scream was announced.
I find it funny when people come here disagreeing, obviously they are not paladin main and only play murlocadin to climb the ladder.
I have 1300+ wins with paladin, and my second most played class is druid (700 wins).
I totally agree with what you said, paladin is a joke. The only moment it had a competitive deck was after un'goro's release, a control paladin.
Paladin has no tempo cards, no late game value (compared to other classes), the only board clear is a 2 card combo that also "clears" your side.
The early game is another joke. Even when we had shielded mini bot and coghammer (two strong early game cards) we didnt have enough. First, because if we didnt draw them it would be GG. Second, the other classes have a really strong early game.
I gotta say that the hand buff was a total failure, and the DK as well.
The hand buff is a loss of tempo that does not guarantee you a win.
The DK "combo" is so strong that they did not have the balls to create cards in order to support it. (And if they did, it would not be OP, cause mage has cards to support a 100% win combo).
Paladin needs more sinergy. Maybe if the next legendaries bring something new, that could allow us to build decks around, instead of single value like tirion, ragnarus, quest or Lynessa Sunsorrow. Dont get me wrong, these cards are really powerful, but not enough to win you games.
I have said this in other topic, but it's worth recapping, we need legendaries with abilities such as:
- At the end of your turn, give your minions divine shield
- Whenever a friendly minion attacks, give it divine shield
- Whenever your hero attacks, give your minions X.
These are simple ideas that could make the difference.
Besides that, I believe paladin needs cheap board clears and early game presence.
If you like paladin so much come play it in wild. I swear I have seen 70% paladin decks from rank 15 to 10. Multiple decks in wild which Paladin is viable, take your pick.
Guys, don't change the topic. We are saying that the paladin class needs improvement. We all play other classes.
I think we should do something about it, I don't know what. Maybe create more cards in the card competitions or even send blizzard a letter to make sure they understand our frustration.
The biggest problem probably for Paladin right now is the lack of early game tempo cards compared to other classes. Unless you are playing Murlocs, ~t5 feels awful. This is awful for a class that's based on minion-on-minion attrition combat (lack of a finisher card in the class necessitates this).
Another problem is combo reliant removal and clears. I keep saying this to death, but Paladin has probably the shittiest removal out of all classes, Aldor deals well with minions that rely on stat based combat but fails completely in dealing with minions that rely on effects (e.g. Ysera). Not to mention, if your opponent already has the board, "nullifying" (I say this because it actually doesnt - the minion remains on the board and can ping off your hero power) one of your opponent's minions really doesn't do anything - which comes back to the "I need to keep the board, but I haven't been given tempo minions to do it with" problem. (To be clear what I mean by this is you still need to have minions on the board to kill whatever's been reduced to 1 attack)
High health minions are a complete terror. Dealing with an Ysera or a Malygos when you are even on board is a fucking nightmare. In fact, there's no need to even go that far - empty board on both sides, your opponent slams down Tar Lurker, and the best response you have to that is...?
Equality combos are a good way to clear the board, theoretically, once you have both cards - yet if you have just one part of the piece, they are almost completely dead in your hand. I'm sure if you've played Paladin at all you've come across a situation where you're staring at an enemy board, with double Equality in your hand and no sign of that Consecration/Wild Pyromancer. (Or there's a Murloc Warleader on the board - pre-nerf)
This is partly due to another problem - lack of reliable draw. Hunter shares this problem as well to be honest, as Paladin lacks good draw cards (in standard). To be fair Blizzard have tried to remedy this this expansion by giving us Potion of Heroism which I think is a great cycle card. But what else do we have? Divine Favour is one - although only if you're in an aggro vs control matchup, or at least in matchups where the opponent is slower than yours. Then we have Lay on Hands, which basically might as well read "pass your turn, draw 3 cards." Right now you can't really afford to pass your turn, usually speaking. Otherwise Temporus would be a good card, and the Mage Quest reward would be meh. Again, to be fair this has been partially remedied by Stonehill Defender etc.
I think it's completely weird that they are giving us Healadin synergies when Light Rag and Forbidden Healing, Burnbristle etc are rotating out of standard soon. Hopefully they give us more support soon, otherwise it will be dead almost right off the bat - and anyway, I don't see it being really viable against the late game decks right now (Portal Mage doesn't care how much health you can heal, can OTK you from full either through Apprentice or Alex+Giants, Shadow Priest, Jade Druid etc)
Dude Paladin, well, there aren't enough good efficient dude generators nor dude synergies in standard right now to make it work. Level Up is a complete joke - I've seen people compare this with Bloodlust and try to claim it's okay, but Bloodlust hits all minions and not just recruits, and recruits are fragile 1/1s who get killed off almost as soon as you summon them. In Wild that's a different story as you have Justicar and Muster, but seeing as we're talking about Standard that's irrelevant.
Quest Paladin is a fucking joke. 'nuff said on that one.
Paladin, seems amazing in the first 2 days of the new expansion. Aggro is really strong, Murloc is really strong, and there are variants with slower decks that can work. Aggro is popular because it just destroys unrefined decks during the first days, so you can't really tell anything about the shape of the meta.
Obviously the problem is not in Paladin, the problem is with the OP. Also 2000 wins with a class tells nothing other than playing lots of games. And that's something that almost everyone can do. So, starting your post with that shows enough already.
I agree 100% OP. I main paladin at 1300 wins which were all strictly with heavy control decks alone. Paladin NEVER got a single thing that gave us an option to come up with new strategies or different deck styles. Mage has quest and spells and secrets and elementald and DK. Virtually every other class has at least 2 viable strategists to try, but paladin just has 1 and it's boring (in my eyes) AND not even tier 2.
I agree that I don't feel any of team 5's members really play paladin or are really passionate about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Paladin, seems amazing in the first 2 days of the new expansion. Aggro is really strong, Murloc is really strong, and there are variants with slower decks that can work. Aggro is popular because it just destroys unrefined decks during the first days, so you can't really tell anything about the shape of the meta.
Obviously the problem is not in Paladin, the problem is with the OP. Also 2000 wins with a class tells nothing other than playing lots of games. And that's something that almost everyone can do. So, starting your post with that shows enough already.
Do you know nothing? Having 2,000 wins with a class obviously says way more than just "he played many games" ROFL. It also says that he understands the class really well, it's strengths and weaknesses and also that he loves the class allot. hmm but I guess you'd have to have supernatural deductive skills to understand that rofl.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
Paladin, seems amazing in the first 2 days of the new expansion. Aggro is really strong, Murloc is really strong, and there are variants with slower decks that can work. Aggro is popular because it just destroys unrefined decks during the first days, so you can't really tell anything about the shape of the meta.
Obviously the problem is not in Paladin, the problem is with the OP. Also 2000 wins with a class tells nothing other than playing lots of games. And that's something that almost everyone can do. So, starting your post with that shows enough already.
Do you know nothing? Having 2,000 wins with a class obviously says way more than just "he played many games" ROFL. It also says that he understands the class really well, it's strengths and weaknesses and also that he loves the class allot. hmm but I guess you'd have to have supernatural deductive skills to understand that rofl.
Winning is fun - Palladin has got to be my winningest class. They have all the best tools - a nice balances playstyle and lots of deckbuilding options.
They got pretty great stuff from the expansion.
They have access to a fair number of memes (murlocs, DK horsemen, Quest, bubbles).
I questions OP's statement that she has truly played Palladin - and in any case, this belongs in the salt mines.
I don't get how someone who only plays one class, and to that extent as-well, thinks he has the ability to conclude that his class is the worst of all the others. Have no one ever heard about fundamental attribution error? While you might be right, your complaints should not hold any credibility as long as you are not coming from an informed position.
Btw, I agree with the others that say its more likely that your tired of paladin, why don't you try another class or worst case; another game?
"Murloc paladin has been bad since the warleader nerf"
Except, you know, that is was arguably the strongest deck even after the nerf. It's been tier 1 for ages, you're either lying or delusional. Handbuff is weaker but still better than anything warrior or shaman has
btw look at shaman for bad cards tried to theorycraft an overload ahaman and it failed in theorycraftimg phase, totem shaman seems a dream and tokens are ok, didn't got much new stuff, only elemental shaman is worth experimentation
Try leeroy it can be devastating with windfury adaptation or any buff
I see a lot of people talking and disagreeing with me, and i blame myself for not being clear enough on my points, so amendment to the rant
1) I DID forget handbuff paladin, but for me even if it is a little more in-depth it still is curvestone
2) When I say "worst class", as you'd see in the original post, I don't mean just not high win rates, I mean not FUN. I LOVE quest paladin for fun, but my god is it bad. Murloc paladin is viable yes but its curvestone, not like a value raza deck or intricate quest mage, no real decision making.
3) Ok, I will admit I didn't know murloc paladin was doing so well for itself post-nerf, i strayed away from the archtype after the warleader nerf, but my point on the non fun still stands imo
I do love all the feedback, I truly do love the class, and to see people still finding fun in it when I cant gives me hope for my own fun in the future. So, thank you! :D
To Arms Men!
I find it funny when people come here disagreeing, obviously they are not paladin main and only play murlocadin to climb the ladder.
I have 1300+ wins with paladin, and my second most played class is druid (700 wins).
I totally agree with what you said, paladin is a joke. The only moment it had a competitive deck was after un'goro's release, a control paladin.
Paladin has no tempo cards, no late game value (compared to other classes), the only board clear is a 2 card combo that also "clears" your side.
The early game is another joke. Even when we had shielded mini bot and coghammer (two strong early game cards) we didnt have enough. First, because if we didnt draw them it would be GG. Second, the other classes have a really strong early game.
I gotta say that the hand buff was a total failure, and the DK as well.
The hand buff is a loss of tempo that does not guarantee you a win.
The DK "combo" is so strong that they did not have the balls to create cards in order to support it. (And if they did, it would not be OP, cause mage has cards to support a 100% win combo).
Paladin needs more sinergy. Maybe if the next legendaries bring something new, that could allow us to build decks around, instead of single value like tirion, ragnarus, quest or Lynessa Sunsorrow. Dont get me wrong, these cards are really powerful, but not enough to win you games.
I have said this in other topic, but it's worth recapping, we need legendaries with abilities such as:
- At the end of your turn, give your minions divine shield
- Whenever a friendly minion attacks, give it divine shield
- Whenever your hero attacks, give your minions X.
These are simple ideas that could make the difference.
Besides that, I believe paladin needs cheap board clears and early game presence.
The solution is so simple: stop playing just pally, and switch to other classes. I believe that none of us is really a paladin, a hunter or a warrior in real life, that has to play just whit his specific class for healt reasons, and nothing bad will happen after trying out a new one. The game is yours, all the classes are included in the game, and all the classes can be fun. It is a card game, besides of the hero power and a few cards, the mechanic is always the same: play cards and win the game. I don't believe that you can have fun just if your button summons a 1-1.
You can always say "I have enough fun just playing pally so it's ok to me!" but this doesn't seems to be the case.
Try out something new, and have fun!
To Arms Men!
If you like paladin so much come play it in wild. I swear I have seen 70% paladin decks from rank 15 to 10. Multiple decks in wild which Paladin is viable, take your pick.
Guys, don't change the topic. We are saying that the paladin class needs improvement. We all play other classes.
I think we should do something about it, I don't know what. Maybe create more cards in the card competitions or even send blizzard a letter to make sure they understand our frustration.
The biggest problem probably for Paladin right now is the lack of early game tempo cards compared to other classes. Unless you are playing Murlocs, ~t5 feels awful. This is awful for a class that's based on minion-on-minion attrition combat (lack of a finisher card in the class necessitates this).
Another problem is combo reliant removal and clears. I keep saying this to death, but Paladin has probably the shittiest removal out of all classes, Aldor deals well with minions that rely on stat based combat but fails completely in dealing with minions that rely on effects (e.g. Ysera). Not to mention, if your opponent already has the board, "nullifying" (I say this because it actually doesnt - the minion remains on the board and can ping off your hero power) one of your opponent's minions really doesn't do anything - which comes back to the "I need to keep the board, but I haven't been given tempo minions to do it with" problem. (To be clear what I mean by this is you still need to have minions on the board to kill whatever's been reduced to 1 attack)
High health minions are a complete terror. Dealing with an Ysera or a Malygos when you are even on board is a fucking nightmare. In fact, there's no need to even go that far - empty board on both sides, your opponent slams down Tar Lurker, and the best response you have to that is...?
Equality combos are a good way to clear the board, theoretically, once you have both cards - yet if you have just one part of the piece, they are almost completely dead in your hand. I'm sure if you've played Paladin at all you've come across a situation where you're staring at an enemy board, with double Equality in your hand and no sign of that Consecration/Wild Pyromancer. (Or there's a Murloc Warleader on the board - pre-nerf)
This is partly due to another problem - lack of reliable draw. Hunter shares this problem as well to be honest, as Paladin lacks good draw cards (in standard). To be fair Blizzard have tried to remedy this this expansion by giving us Potion of Heroism which I think is a great cycle card. But what else do we have? Divine Favour is one - although only if you're in an aggro vs control matchup, or at least in matchups where the opponent is slower than yours. Then we have Lay on Hands, which basically might as well read "pass your turn, draw 3 cards." Right now you can't really afford to pass your turn, usually speaking. Otherwise Temporus would be a good card, and the Mage Quest reward would be meh. Again, to be fair this has been partially remedied by Stonehill Defender etc.
I think it's completely weird that they are giving us Healadin synergies when Light Rag and Forbidden Healing, Burnbristle etc are rotating out of standard soon. Hopefully they give us more support soon, otherwise it will be dead almost right off the bat - and anyway, I don't see it being really viable against the late game decks right now (Portal Mage doesn't care how much health you can heal, can OTK you from full either through Apprentice or Alex+Giants, Shadow Priest, Jade Druid etc)
Dude Paladin, well, there aren't enough good efficient dude generators nor dude synergies in standard right now to make it work. Level Up is a complete joke - I've seen people compare this with Bloodlust and try to claim it's okay, but Bloodlust hits all minions and not just recruits, and recruits are fragile 1/1s who get killed off almost as soon as you summon them. In Wild that's a different story as you have Justicar and Muster, but seeing as we're talking about Standard that's irrelevant.
Quest Paladin is a fucking joke. 'nuff said on that one.
Paladin, seems amazing in the first 2 days of the new expansion. Aggro is really strong, Murloc is really strong, and there are variants with slower decks that can work. Aggro is popular because it just destroys unrefined decks during the first days, so you can't really tell anything about the shape of the meta.
Obviously the problem is not in Paladin, the problem is with the OP. Also 2000 wins with a class tells nothing other than playing lots of games. And that's something that almost everyone can do. So, starting your post with that shows enough already.
So you say "you can't really tell anything about the meta" but also that "the problem is not with Paladin?" Isn't that contradictory?
Granted I agree Murlocs will probably still be okay after the expansion, although I really don't want to play Murlocs.
I agree 100% OP. I main paladin at 1300 wins which were all strictly with heavy control decks alone. Paladin NEVER got a single thing that gave us an option to come up with new strategies or different deck styles. Mage has quest and spells and secrets and elementald and DK. Virtually every other class has at least 2 viable strategists to try, but paladin just has 1 and it's boring (in my eyes) AND not even tier 2.
I agree that I don't feel any of team 5's members really play paladin or are really passionate about it.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
ITT a bunch of idiots that havnt tried call to arms yet. I am wrecking face. Almost at rank 5 and absolutely crushing. The maul is pretty good too.