Hearthpwn

Oh man, it's almost like Wild is full of every single broken card and combo to ever exist in Hearthstone on top of the insane power creep that has been happening since the start of this game.

Look, if you don't like Wild, don't play it, stop complaining about it, it won't change shit.

That was a much better suggestion than I was expecting, but honestly, why stop by conceding to mill as control, do it as combo and aggro as well. Maybe if everyone concedes to mill, Blizzard and Team 5 will finally realize that the archetype is not healthy for the game and will change something about the game.

Yeah, unfortunately the wild deck they posted was Mill Rogue, a deck that anyone who has actually played against it will tell you that it is terrible experience.

Quote from SlydE >>

Quote from MercsGuardian >>

Man...as someone who has played MTG for a long time, I have to say this is a disappointing attempt at sideboarding...Actually, this isn't even sideboarding, you can actually make very niche changes with sideboards in MTG, this is literally building three of the same deck, but changing a total of 5 cards between the various versions.

I'm just going to call it now, get everyone's 'theorycrafting' out of the way for them. Every good deck that makes it in this format is going to be a control deck, most likely reno in variety, because of one simple reason, teching.

Reno decks already are built like this, or at least the good ones are, you run a bunch of good value cards/card generation for a good portion (somewhere between 15 and 20 from my experience) of the deck, and the rest are tech slots. You make a deck and then have three versions where 5 cards have been replaced to fight against a certain playstyle (aggro, combo, control).

This format is going to get boring quickly. Like, as a reno player I could easily build three different Renolock or Renomage decks for this, but it's just so much hassle for something I never plan on doing.

Seriously guys, all you had to do was make a semi-casual tournament mode, but no, instead you make a mode specifically for e-$port$, and then you somehow make it shit on top of the garbage idea it already was.

Fuck this game, I mean, I've already spent money on this game back when it was still cool and made the adventures and those were good, but now, this is embarrassing, it's like watching an investment go down the drain.

I am pretty convinced most tournaments will be in standard. Reno decks can be teched, but they are far from the go-to archetype in Wild. There are strong counters, and the decks are not the most consistant. Honestly, in many ways I think this format would be more fun in Wild as there are many more options.

 I mean, you're right, but at the same time, they are the easiest to work off of, if you basically have 5 slots you can switch out in three different versions of the same deck, I feel like it's going to be quite hard for other decks to produce the same level of power off of 5 swaps.

Honestly, I'm saying this only because the only class that could have easily dominated this format (in theory) has been so nerfed into the ground recently that it doesn't even matter.
Malygos Druid, Togwaggle Druid, and Mecha'thun Druid are all so similar in their standard lists, that it's literally the win-con and a couple of specific cards that can switch between versions and you just run all three in Specialist mode. Toast was able to build Triple-Threat Druid for a reason and this just makes the idea that much easier to pull off.

Man...as someone who has played MTG for a long time, I have to say this is a disappointing attempt at sideboarding...Actually, this isn't even sideboarding, you can actually make very niche changes with sideboards in MTG, this is literally building three of the same deck, but changing a total of 5 cards between the various versions.

I'm just going to call it now, get everyone's 'theorycrafting' out of the way for them. Every good deck that makes it in this format is going to be a control deck, most likely reno in variety, because of one simple reason, teching.

Reno decks already are built like this, or at least the good ones are, you run a bunch of good value cards/card generation for a good portion (somewhere between 15 and 20 from my experience) of the deck, and the rest are tech slots. You make a deck and then have three versions where 5 cards have been replaced to fight against a certain playstyle (aggro, combo, control).

This format is going to get boring quickly. Like, as a reno player I could easily build three different Renolock or Renomage decks for this, but it's just so much hassle for something I never plan on doing.

Seriously guys, all you had to do was make a semi-casual tournament mode, but no, instead you make a mode specifically for e-$port$, and then you somehow make it shit on top of the garbage idea it already was.

Fuck this game, I mean, I've already spent money on this game back when it was still cool and made the adventures and those were good, but now, this is embarrassing, it's like watching an investment go down the drain.

Honestly, for the whole of Hearthstone, you have to look at Tracking from the perspective of what this game has in terms of the 'graveyard'/'discard'. Hearthstone has next to nothing in terms of graveyard interaction, and most of it requires the minion that was played to die first, with very little for the other things. 

If Hearthstone had more graveyard/discard interaction like Yu-Gi-Oh, MTG, or Pokemon, then Tracking would be one of the most busted cards in this game, an odd combination of MTG's Brainstorm and Faithless Looting, or the ability of recent MTG card, Underrealm Lich (a 5 mana 4/3 that replaces every draw you would perform with tracking, look at your top 3 and choose 1, discard the other two). 
With basically no real graveyard, Tracking becomes a good card for an aggressive deck, allowing you to dig through your deck for the card you need in a situation, or maybe in a combo deck with only a few pieces, making them easier to get (unless you get really unlucky).
I personally think that Hunter should not ever play Tracking though, there are better cards that draw or add cards for most of the Hunter decks, ranging from various deathrattle minions to cards like Master's Call, Secret Plan, and Quick Shot (though this one is Wild only), all of them conditional, but still better than Tracking in my opinion.

Overall, Tracking sucks, OP isn't wrong, and this thread exploded in three days, hot damn.

Love how the decks I build regularly beat most of Tier 1 and Tier 2 on a regular basis. 

Like I'm fairly certain the only meta deck I have a bad match-up against is Big Priest, which honestly would be T1 if Wild wasn't mostly aggro right now. 

This still leaves the problem that current Barnes (at least in Big Priest), where if you take a minion or a copy of a minion from your deck, the minion that gets reanimated later is an exact copy of the original minion, no stat changes or anything else attached to it. I like the idea as it means that the player won't be able to draw or recruit that minion later (this is mostly for interaction with Y'Sharrg in Big Priest and similar decks), but it does not solve the core issue of Barnes in the terms of Wild's meta, specifically with Big Priest.

Look, I know Big Priest is a problem deck for Wild and Barnes is a major card in terms of the power level of the deck, but I'm going to be honest, Big Priest does not even need Barnes, in fact, you could build a Big Priest deck without Barnes and probably have a similar win-rate.

We could nerf Barnes in a hundred different ways, in fact here's a short list of the various ideas I've seen put forth for a Barnes nerf;

• Increase Barnes mana cost to either 5 or 6
• Barnes summons a 1/1 copy of a random minion (This was from a very salty thread)
• Barnes summons a 1/1 token with the abilities of a random minion in your deck (Basically OP's idea)
• Barnes gains the abilities of a random minion in your deck (This was the most thematic one imo considering Barnes is suppose to be an actor)

All of these things have been suggested, people have argued against the various ideas and all that, but here's the thing. You could remove Barnes from Big Priest and probably do just as good, you would still have Shadow Essence, Resurrect, Eternal Servitude, all the various giant minions that Big Priest likes to summon, as well as many board clears and removal spells necessary.

In the end, any change to Barnes just removes Barnes from Big Priest and maybe from the other decks that run Barnes (this depends on the change though) and Big Priest remains mostly the same. If any change is made to Barnes, it should be to remove the highroll factor from Big Priest in an attempt to put in it line with the other decks while not actually affecting the power level, so the last two options I mentioned above would probably be the best ones (imo).

 Considering I currently need Kun, Aviana, and at least one more Wild Legend for my various lists, looks like we're spending 20 bucks boys...considering these bundles are usually better value than buying the packs normally, it's good value, whether or not you pull anything good is something else entirely.

Even Shaman and Odd Rogue are basically aggro/midrange, they're pretty straight forward decks that actually don't have a lot of the 'cheating' Wild is known for having.
No full heals from 2 life, no infinite 10+ attack weapon with lifesteal, no getting a 8+ drop almost every single turn starting on turn 4-5 because of the resurrection mechanic.
They just have a slightly better than average hero power, that's it.
Honestly, I think the Odd/Even decks as a whole don't even need to be Odd/Even, I could build versions of these decks that would be just as good, potentially better, without Baku/Genn respectively, the only difference would be the hero power not being upgraded in some way. That might matter, but I don't think it does.
Aggro in Wild is probably the only balanced thing about this game mode, these decks just have a massive win rate because they both shit on the best deck in the format currently, the second Big Priest gets nerfed(if it gets nerfed, since it took Kingsbane coming back into Standard to get Blizzard to nerf that deck), the those decks will fall off too since they will be easy prey for every Reno deck in the format.

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

 

^never faced an odd mage.. you must not play a lot.. odd rogue doesn't lose to those decks cause it lacks sap, it's an agressive deck. odd mage is a big spell control deck it doesn't care much about losing burst cards and even shaman is a tempo deck it doesn't need those board clears.. it still got some anyway though (hagatha and kalimos) and hagatha is a low win rate card in the deck.

 I feel like my first post made it very clear that I play Wild-Only(Where Reno and Quest Mage are infinitely better than Odd Mage), but apparently not, but still, in my experience, sap vs. no sap is a major difference in how the deck functions.

Look, I have a buddy who plays Off-Meta in Wild, makes it to about rank 5-6 (his highest is like 3 or 4, don't remember) every season, plays an aggressive Rogue without Baku, which allows him to play Sap. He shits on Big Priest and through a little testing (getting him to build an Odd Rogue and testing them both against a Big Priest, played about 10 games each), we figure that an aggressive non-Odd/Even Rogue has about a 50% better win rate against Big Priest, with Sap being the major factor (though the ability to play a couple of stickier minions in the form of Shredder did help).

I know  a 10 game test is not a lot to go on, but I personally do feel like the ability to stifle your opponent's plays in a way that even Big Priest can't come back from is infinitely more powerful than people realize.

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

Quote from ColinthePyro >>

(Stuff)

 If Even Shaman was removed from the game, Shaman would have no viable Standard deck, and Zentimo would still not be played (because apparently the rest of the Shaman class is too bad for the meta).

I fail to see how the removal of Odd/Even would fix that issue.

 I'm really sad that this is a completely correct point, that currently Shaman's best Standard deck is literally abusing the fact that there's a build-around that lets would spit out totems at 1 mana each.

Like, Shudderwock got nerfed (because as usual, Blizzard and Team 5 don't think about the synergies of cards until after they come out), and while there is technically a Maly OTK deck, it's not good and requires at least 6 cards to do 30 damage(more if you get lucky/do some fucking BS). Overall, big oof for Shaman as of right now, hopefully the next year gives Shaman some actual archetypes.

I'm going to say that the Odd/Even archetype is not the most imbalanced thing to happen to Hearthstone, but it's pretty polarizing, even the best Odd/Even decks can't run specific cards that are usually necessary for the class to function properly in almost every other deck.

I think my best examples are Odd Rogue, Odd Mage, and Even Shaman, one that has been a fairly consistent in both standard and wild,  another has started picking up steam due to the heavy Odd-costed hero power synergy in RR, and the last one manages to have the one of the best win-rates in Wild despite missing several cards you would imagine to be crucial to midrange deck.

Odd Rogue loses Sap and Eviscerate, one making them almost auto lose against Big Priest and the other means a well-timed Skulking Geist hoses the deck's burst potential.

Odd Mage is in a worse boat, while getting the extra damage on your hero power is nice (and still being able to run Frost Lich Jaina(for now) is also quite good), the loss of Polymorph, Fireball, and Frostbolt feels like too much to even attempt to run this deck, yet some people are trying, to much less success than Odd Rogue I imagine...never really faced an Odd Mage, but considering how I usually beat the Odd Rogue's I come across, I feel like the outcome would be similar.

As for Even Shaman, I'm impressed that this deck has a 65-70% win rate considering it's missing two of the best Shaman board clears to ever be printed (Lightning Storm and Volcano) as well as various other cards that could add to the decks burst potential or their ability to survive. Look, I know most of this deck's power is attributed to the fact that it can just spit out totems making Thing from Below the cheapest good taunt minion to ever exist.

Personally, I feel like the Odd/Even mechanic sucks, the decks that are good with it do too well (some times so well that key pieces to those decks end up getting the nerf-hammer), but most of them are garbage or pretty close to it. 

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

More cheats will be released as the game goes on. HS is still relatively young. And wild is even younger.

 I want to agree with this, but with the power level of RR in comparison to sets like KnC, and Mean Streets, both sets meant to close out their respective years, I feel like the power creep is going to be a lot slower, and it might mean that we don't get to see these cheats again, or if we do it's going to be like Jan'alai, where the card is so slow that it won't see much actual play in terms of Wild. 
I'm hopeful we will get something powerful down the line, but I doubt it for a decent while.

Quote from melacine >>

You mention mana cheating... what about emperor T? He's basically the only reason I'd play wild (aside from old fun evolve shaman). He does mana cheat but most people kill him after one turn- rarely does he live to give someone 2 turns of reducing mana cost. 

I'd say Blizz doesn't typically do much regarding wild- most nerfs/adjustments are for standard. I don't think it'd affect them as much as they think it would to say nerf barnes to pulling any minion 8 mana or less but then everyone with that set would get an auto 1600 if they haven't been using him already. Hard to say. They've been enjoying nerfing critical cards without nerfing the big legendary ones (like leeching instead of kingsbane) so I doubt they'll put much into that now. MAYBE at the start of the new year if there's enough complaints about wild. 

 Not certain if this is aimed at me or someone else, but I'm just going to respond to it regardless.

Emp. T isn't really mana-cheating, he's a discount, which is different, cheating is being able to play powerful cards for way less than usual, the most recent show of this has to be Grumble (especially combined with Shudderwock), being able to play multiple minions for a second time at only a single mana per minion is very powerful, though Eureka is also a decent example as it allows you to put a powerful minion from your hand into play (sort of).

On the other hand, discounts, like Sorcerer's Apprentice, Radiant Elemental, and Emp. T are not actually cheating because it's a small discount (usually), they can be abused, like with Mage Exodia's and getting multiple Thaurissan discounts on a hand full of powerful cards, but they are not cheating when it's only one mana, it's when it discounts large amounts of mana in a single burst is when it hits cheating levels.