Hearthpwn

Quote from Xynot >>

Screw the classic set, it's a big part of the whole problem.  As far as Brode is concerned, looks like the trash took itself out.  I just remember the WW video where he was gushing about Baku and Genn.  RR was a step in the right direction, hope it continues.

 No hard feelings, but this is the first time I agree with any of your statements completely.

Costs for your cards :

5 mana (very specific condition specially after the apparent substitution of Charge with Rush, undeserving of 6 mana)

1 mana (could make a really good combo with Grom,Can't kill most opposing minions and will damage your minions too much to make use of) so not higher than 2 mana .

6 mana (can be really problematic with all the 1 cost beasts and Master's Call), so stats of 5/3 should be attached to 6 or even 7 mana cost .

Hi there !

Just made a Reno Mage decklist that counters Big Priest, and will be more succesful because of the toned-down power of Aggro .

Any thoughts are appreciated .

Regarding the economy of the game ,I think the real problem is Epic cards .

You already get a guaranteed legendary every expansion + 1 in first 10 packs ,and since you can include 1 copy of a legendary and the no-duplicate rule exists for them ,I don't think they are problematic as crafting targets .

Rares and commons are plentyful and they never were a problem .

But Epics ,well it felt really bad crafting 2xDoomsayer for my BSM and then getting 2 of him in packs ,I crafted 2 Meteors as well and then got 1 in Un'goro packs ,and currently missing 2xVoodoo doll ,1xArcane Tyrant and Arcane keysmith .

Funny thing but true : I have more Legendaries than Epics (51 legendaries vs 43 epics I guess) ,mainly because I disenchant lots of useless epics .

Most basic solution I can think of is reducing pity timers (30 for L (to make it less-RNG dependent and more consistent) ,5 for epic ) ,that or make a no more than 2 copies rule for epics .

Murlocs please .

I think what OP said is clear .

Golden hero ,Legend cardback AND a metadeck.

Finishing a quest ? time-wise turns are the same here and there ,class cards are the same as well and I don't think there is a quest which is harder to complete in Ranked than in casual. It is probably faster to finish a quest in Ranked since most meta decks are aggro ,which means the game is faster as well .

Grinding for 100 gold ? You are free to do so ,except you are facing other 100 gold grinders with the meta decks you see in ladder ,plus your Odd Rogue, Even Shaman or Big Priest deck can't tell a difference between the two modes since it will most likely stomp regardless of what mode you are playing .

We don't want to lose intentionally to face "weaker opponents" ,we want to face a golden hero with a legendary cardback and level60 class but without a fricking tier 1 deck in casual (the non-serious mode) .

No one can claim to have the ultimate truth regarding who plays a certain mode ,be it people bored of meta decks or people who don't want to lose stars ,it can be both or none and it depends mainly on the majority that appeals to the devs of the game with their opinion .

Many of you are focusing on the notion that golden heroes and legend card backs don't mean a meta deck as well ,when OP's main problem is when they are combined with a meta deck ,as it is the only triggering case (at least for me) .

Legend card back + Golden Hero + a non-meta deck in Casual ? Anyday ,my favorite matchup .

No Legend card back + no Golden hero + a meta deck in Casual? Could be a new player who is afraid of ladder ,or a veteran who just crafted the deck and wants to try it in Casual before Ranked . Plus it's good to see how your homebrew deck fares against meta decks once in a while .

No Legend card back + no Golden hero + non-meta deck ? Poor new-to-game F2P player .

Legend card back + Golden Hero (non-Whizbang) + A deck that is even oppressive to other tier 1 decks (like pre-nerf Odd Paladin) ? Hell no ,a player who is an expert with the class (500+ wins) with a knowledge of the meta and it's decks (Legend card back) can do whatever he is doing as well in both formats (Casual and Ranked) ,I know there are rare cases (499 wins or reached legend 4 years ago quit the game and then returned recently) but I just love the 4676477465 rare cases I face on Casual daily .

Heck ,I hesitate to finish my Rogue quests with Big Rogue in Casual because of it's highrolls even though it's less than tier 4 ,but do it anyway because Casual is already filled with tier 1 decks and not being the villain makes me feel a bit better about myself .

I had the ultimate joy watching all these Odd Paladins post-nerf asking for a refund for the entire deck after making the experience for others 10× as disgusting as not getting 2000 dust ,when they get these after grinding Casual for 20 days (assuming 100gold=100dust) let alone 3 months .

So I made this OTK Paladin decklist that doesn't use Zola the Gorgon or the Brewmasters ,nor Auctionmaster Beardo ,but rather cards from The Grand Tournament ,mainly Fencing Coach and Garrison Commander .

Played against a Pirate Kingsbane Rogue ,Uther of the Ebon Blade into Fencing Coach the next turn so hero power is at 0 mana ,waited until I had Garrison Commander and Blackwald Pixie in hand ,dropped Emperor Thaurissan and played Time Out! getting ready to OTK .

0 mana HP ,1 mana GC , 2 mana HP , 2 mana BP , 2 mana HP and 2 mana .... I can't use my HP a second time even after refreshing it with BP .

So is my understanding of the whole hero power thing incorrect ?

Since refresh means making something fresh again ,like if it was never used before ,either make it usable twice after playing BP or change BP's text to : you can use your HP one more time ( regardless of Garrison Commander) .

Thanks for any feedback .

Tiny Knight of Evil

I guess that woman is :

Small in size ,HUGE IN EVIL

Chief Inspector

What are you hiding ?

In that luggage...

So I was trying to make a C'thun deck work ,mainly using it as a finisher in a Tempo Mage build yet still struggling to make it a competitive deck let alone a ladder-worthy one .

And looking at C'Thun related cards I saw the Warlock one (Usher of Souls) which buffs C'Thun +1/+1 whenever a friendly minion dies ,and I immediately thought of the Spirit card and Blood Troll Sapper, and I had to make a deck so I came up with this .

The thing is ,I am missing Hir'eek and a handful of cards since I don't play Warlock that often ,so I was wondering how it would do in a game .

Main deckbuilding synergies :

Grim Rally + Lost Spirit

Blood Troll Sapper + Defile

Spirit of the Bat & Usher of Souls with trade-ins

And then Hir'eek and C'Thun as finishers .

Hero power should be enough for card draw ,and although the deck needs healing I thought of it as an aggressive deck like Token Druid so I chose not to include healing ,although might include it later on .

Thanks for any feedback .

Quote from ZiombalaBoms >>

What if barnes instead of summoning 1/1 copy,

would summon totally new minion (just like craft zombeast in Deathstalker Rexxar does)

with 1/1 stats + card text.

In that case any resurrect effect will summon 1/1 stats.

 Yeah a good nerf and one that has been previously suggested ,Barnes summons a 1/1 "Actor" that gains the text and subtype of a minion in the deck upon summoning but returns as a 1/1 when resurrected .

Best 2nd option imo after nerfing Resurrect and Eternal Servitude .

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Quote from AmmarDawood 

 I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?

Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .

Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent) 

Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .

 Shudderwock wasn't a top tier deck either yet still got gutted because it wasn't fun to play against at all. So your argument that spell hunter and renouncelock aren't an issue with Barnes is moot.

Besides, how is big priest not restricting itself then? It only runs about 5 minions of which 4 are extremely high costed and the deck relies solely on drawing 3 cards.

 Can't see how my argument for Spell Hunter and Renounce Warlock is related to Shudderwock ,we are talking about Barnes ,and I didn't say they aren't an issue ,I said that if highrolling with Barnes became consistent using the 3 mana epic spell then I'm all in for a nerf ,and then declared not knowing about Renounce Warlock and assumed if anything needed a nerf it is the Spell Hunter not it .

When you play against Barnes with these decks you can use many things to get rid of the 10/10 Y'Shaarj. Sap, Hex, Polymorph, Pyro+Equality or Equality trade with a minion, Shadow Word: Death, Shield Slam or Execute, Hunter's Mark + Candle Shot ....etc ,all those can just end the threat and you are ready to carry on with the game .

Now you are playing against a T3 or 4 Barnes in a Big Priest he gets a 1/1 Y'Shaarj that recruits an 8/8 Rag ,you use all the previous methods on the Rag (or whatever is recruited) and you think you got it safe (especially with sap hex and polymorph) only for the Priest to trade that 1/1 copy and get two full 10/10s that recruit 8/8s next turn for 4 mana, no other class can abuse Barnes this way because no other class has Resurrect or Eternal Servitude ,and this is my argument for why Barnes is not problematic (killing whatever is a result of him is getting rid of a problem except in Priest and in early turns) and not if Shudderwock is a top tier deck (!??)

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from AmmarDawood >>

Hello and welcome ,I was just willing to tackle the subject of nerfing Barnes (or Big Priest in general) .

For a lot of us ,Big Priest has become somewhat of a hated deck ,and looking at the reasons to why it is hated you find that it is :

a-tier 1 deck (something common between most hated decks in history)

b-filling both casual and ranked game modes (with endless woooows)

c-why people hate turn 3 or 4 against them (Barnes)

d-why I think the deck is problematic which is that every game ,they are able to spawn at least 4 boards that require a Twisting Nether each to be cleared (Blizzard, Flamestrike and Volcano for instance are not enough) ,that is if Kel'thuzad isn't included and they don't discover the Spellstone 2 times from Shadow Visions ,then you would be expecting 8 of these boards (god forbid)

Now to the point of why d is the main problem and not c (c is a problem although not the main one) ,I would like to mention all Big decks that I know about other than Big Priest : 

Big Rogue (play it myself) ,Big Shaman (Standard with the overload giant and wild with reincarnate and Kel'thuzad) ,Big Warrior (Recruit) ,Big Druid (Quest or AvianaKun or Twig or DragonHatcher with lots of big dragons) .

We see lots of decks here that in the Wild format never reached tier 1 or 2 with some never reaching tier 4 ,despite having access to : Y'Shaarj, Ragnaros, Kel'thuzad, Lich King, Sylvanas, Barnes ,Ysera and Sneed's Old Shredder ,every class has those yet none of the 8 classes that are not priest were able to produce a tier 2 deck using them .

So It is either Obsidian Statue, Priest's Control tools (Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil and Psychic Scream..etc) or Priest's resurrect tools .

Regarding ObsidianS ,there were numerous times where I had the Priest dead if it weren't for this minion ,restoring at least 4 HP and killing a random enemy minion can be game changing ,but still managable so long as only 2 ObsidianSs are played during the game .

Moving to the control tools and realizing that Aggro is the best counter for this deck ,there really Isn't much to be said . Here, you (people who want Barnes nerfed) are right ,since Barnes gives this deck a push against what is considered it's counter ,trading that 1/1 copy that Barnes summoned (Obsidian maybe) into one of the aggro minions and then summoning 1 or 2 ObsidianS ends the game against most Aggro decks ,and this is why if what I wanted doesn't happen I would be content if they nerf Barnes .

Yet what I want is based on the fact that those 1 or 2 ObsidianS shouldn't be summoned as 4/8 (stats are my point so don't ignore that they are 4/8 or 10/10 or 8/8) as early as turn 4 ,it wouldn't happen without Barnes but it wouldn't happen without Resurrect or Eternal Servitude either .

Take Shadow Essence for example ,which is in my opinion the best card in the deck balance-wise . A 5/5 copy of a minion for 6 mana (which means you don't get that before turn 5) with a little deck restriction you get a powerful effect that Isn't game-breaking and that the opponent can deal with on their turn6 using a similarly costed card .

2 mana summon 10/10 and recruit 4/8 that lifesteals and kills a random minion is way too much . Barnes is a Legendary minion and the 1/1 copy he summons can be dealt with with a hero power ,and in the cases where that 1/1 copy is Y'Shaarj ,either it's : a- a lucky highroll and b- a result of deck restriction like Spell Hunter ,and then it still shouldn't be a heavy problem if you couldn't revive that 1/1 copy once or twice as a 10/10 (not 3/3 or 5/5) using two cards that cost 2 or 4 mana (Resurrect and Eternal Servitude) .

The point is ,nerfing Barnes is definitely a welcome solution although not the best one in my opinion ,as it will turn the deck into a new Quest Rogue (weak against Aggro ,stomps Control most of the time) whereas if resurrect effects were nerfed it would lose what makes it oppressive (hard to clear big boards and early high stats minions) yet still do fine against both Aggro and Control without being killed like Druid .

TL;DR : Nerf Priorities :

1-Resurrect and Eternal Servitude (to resurrecting 4/4 and 6/6 copies maybe of dead minions,stats debatable but definitely not 2 mana 10/10s) .

2-Barnes only ,say welcome to new Quest Rogue .

3-Spellstone (same number of minions but either less stats or make it harder to upgrade).

4-any other card from the deck or two of the previously mentioned options which doesn't solve the problem or overkills the deck respectively .

 

 

 Resurrect cards should bring back minions with the same stats they died with. It would mostly fix cube decks and resurrect/big priest.

 Now that is a proper fix and well accepted ,probably the best I've seen but would piss off the players because there is no dust refund .

Keeps Deathrattle value while making sure things don't go out of hand ,and a nerf to Big Rogue as well (not that it needed a nerf but to prevent insane board resurrects with Kel'thuzad ) ,I like this a lot plus I hate Carnivorous Cube.

Quote from hillandder >>

Barnes need to be nerfed, all the other cards in the deck is ok.

5 manas Barnes can be enough.

 Can I please know how a 2 mana summon 8 mana 8/8 or 9 mana 4/8 and a 4 mana prevent sheeps or Barnes and summon the minion you want which most likely is a 10 mana 10/10 that recruits an 8 mana 8/8 ,is OK ?

Without Odd/Even/Duplicate/no spells/no minions...etc restrictions .

Even Zerek's Cloning Gallery the 9 mana Legendary Spell can squeeze a maximum of 7/7 stats ,card text isn't all that matters you know .

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Quote from AmmarDawood >>

Quote from iWatchUSleep >>

Quote from lecharcuteur >>

if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)

peace

 There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.

That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels. 

 Except it is the most broken card in the game only when played in Big Priest ,with the help of Resurrect and Eternal Servitude ,in other cases he never is extremely problematic like we see here .

 Spell hunter would like a word.

Remember renounce lock? Yeah that was fun too wasn't it...

Barnes is extremely problematic. Just because he's at his worst in big priest doesn't mean he's not a problem in other decks.

 I did mention Spell Hunter and Barnes Summoning Y'Shaarj from it but it requires a deck restriction (no minions but those two) and can be sabotaged easily by by drawing Y'Shaarj or not drawing both until late game whereas in Priest it's much easier for Barnes to find a minion in the deck or to play Shadow Essence or play one of the minions you drew (either 6 or 8 mana). And as someone who owns a Spell Hunter deck ,and with the introduction of new 3 mana epic spell that draws Barnes, if it turns out to be extremely oppressive ,I'm all in for a nerf ,though not sure how ,perhaps increasing Barnes' cost?

Main problem with this is he is already 4 mana 3/4 when there are 3 mana 3/4 and he is Legendary and those are common (Blackwald Pixie) ,so basically killing what is a well statted card ,perhaps 5 mana 3/5 would be sensible .

Never played against or with Renounce Warlock but I guess it is even less harmful than Spell Hunter (or less consistent) 

Limiting your deck to two minions (Barnes & Y'Shaarj , Gral & Darkness) is quite different from Big Priest .