Hello and welcome ,I was just willing to tackle the subject of nerfing Barnes (or Big Priest in general) .
For a lot of us ,Big Priest has become somewhat of a hated deck ,and looking at the reasons to why it is hated you find that it is :
a-tier 1 deck (something common between most hated decks in history)
b-filling both casual and ranked game modes (with endless woooows)
c-why people hate turn 3 or 4 against them (Barnes)
d-why I think the deck is problematic which is that every game ,they are able to spawn at least 4 boards that require a Twisting Nether each to be cleared (Blizzard, Flamestrike and Volcano for instance are not enough) ,that is if Kel'thuzad isn't included and they don't discover the Spellstone 2 times from Shadow Visions ,then you would be expecting 8 of these boards (god forbid)
Now to the point of why d is the main problem and not c (c is a problem although not the main one) ,I would like to mention all Big decks that I know about other than Big Priest :
Big Rogue (play it myself) ,Big Shaman (Standard with the overload giant and wild with reincarnate and Kel'thuzad) ,Big Warrior (Recruit) ,Big Druid (Quest or AvianaKun or Twig or DragonHatcher with lots of big dragons) .
We see lots of decks here that in the Wild format never reached tier 1 or 2 with some never reaching tier 4 ,despite having access to : Y'Shaarj, Ragnaros, Kel'thuzad, Lich King, Sylvanas, Barnes ,Ysera and Sneed's Old Shredder ,every class has those yet none of the 8 classes that are not priest were able to produce a tier 2 deck using them .
So It is either Obsidian Statue, Priest's Control tools (Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil and Psychic Scream..etc) or Priest's resurrect tools .
Regarding ObsidianS ,there were numerous times where I had the Priest dead if it weren't for this minion ,restoring at least 4 HP and killing a random enemy minion can be game changing ,but still managable so long as only 2 ObsidianSs are played during the game .
Moving to the control tools and realizing that Aggro is the best counter for this deck ,there really Isn't much to be said . Here, you (people who want Barnes nerfed) are right ,since Barnes gives this deck a push against what is considered it's counter ,trading that 1/1 copy that Barnes summoned (Obsidian maybe) into one of the aggro minions and then summoning 1 or 2 ObsidianS ends the game against most Aggro decks ,and this is why if what I wanted doesn't happen I would be content if they nerf Barnes .
Yet what I want is based on the fact that those 1 or 2 ObsidianS shouldn't be summoned as 4/8 (stats are my point so don't ignore that they are 4/8 or 10/10 or 8/8) as early as turn 4 ,it wouldn't happen without Barnes but it wouldn't happen without Resurrect or Eternal Servitude either .
Take Shadow Essence for example ,which is in my opinion the best card in the deck balance-wise . A 5/5 copy of a minion for 6 mana (which means you don't get that before turn 5) with a little deck restriction you get a powerful effect that Isn't game-breaking and that the opponent can deal with on their turn6 using a similarly costed card .
2 mana summon 10/10 and recruit 4/8 that lifesteals and kills a random minion is way too much . Barnes is a Legendary minion and the 1/1 copy he summons can be dealt with with a hero power ,and in the cases where that 1/1 copy is Y'Shaarj ,either it's : a- a lucky highroll and b- a result of deck restriction like Spell Hunter ,and then it still shouldn't be a heavy problem if you couldn't revive that 1/1 copy once or twice as a 10/10 (not 3/3 or 5/5) using two cards that cost 2 or 4 mana (Resurrect and Eternal Servitude) .
The point is ,nerfing Barnes is definitely a welcome solution although not the best one in my opinion ,as it will turn the deck into a new Quest Rogue (weak against Aggro ,stomps Control most of the time) whereas if resurrect effects were nerfed it would lose what makes it oppressive (hard to clear big boards and early high stats minions) yet still do fine against both Aggro and Control without being killed like Druid .
TL;DR : Nerf Priorities :
1-Resurrect and Eternal Servitude (to resurrecting 4/4 and 6/6 copies maybe of dead minions,stats debatable but definitely not 2 mana 10/10s) .
2-Barnes only ,say welcome to new Quest Rogue .
3-Spellstone (same number of minions but either less stats or make it harder to upgrade).
4-any other card from the deck or two of the previously mentioned options which doesn't solve the problem or overkills the deck respectively .
it's not because a deck is very popular that blizzard will nerf it.
big priest is a tier 1 deck of course but its neither the best or unbeatable.
as of right now i think the wild meta is super healthy with a lot of diversity (of course theres an obvious tier 1 (odd rogue, renolock, evenlock, big priest....)
we are far from a rock paper scissor in wild, and theres a lot of good otk in wild that big priest can do s*** about it
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
i would agree with you that those 2 cards are really problematic, in standard they will just rotate some day, but in wild the even/odd mechanic will just continue for ever and its not a good one at all
I agree with your points accept from the most hate decks are tier 1. Kingsbane was a great example of a deck that wasn't tier 1 but was super polarizing therefore being hated.
I agree with your points accept from the most hate decks are tier 1. Kingsbane was a great example of a deck that wasn't tier 1 but was super polarizing therefore being hated.
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.
That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels.
Genn and Baku are ok if say out of 30 popular decks 5 were odd or even ,more than that and they become too dominant just like Giggling ,especially if they are all tier 1. In wild only two are really good (Even Shaman and Odd Rogue) and I think if they are to be nerfed ,the targets shouldn't be Genn and Baku.
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.
That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels.
Except it is the most broken card in the game only when played in Big Priest ,with the help of Resurrect and Eternal Servitude ,in other cases he never is extremely problematic like we see here .
Keleseth on the other hand is broken when drawn in any deck or any class built around him ,because he himself is broken ,and not a certain class' cards that make him so ,he is stronger in Zoolock despite Rogue having Shadowstep ,which means that he is really meta-defining on his own unlike Barnes which shines in a single archetype .
There will always be powerful cards and decks. You can never nerf enough. Eventually we'll reach the point of shittalking about magma rager being op.
Not true ,certain interactions like Infinite Shudderwock or Infinite healing Kingsbane are problematic ,a minion that dies from a hero power is not .
Take Dust Devil for example ,not problematic and not seen often ,and then add a neutral legendary, a 1 mana Pirate 1/2 that summons a friendly minion from hand that costs 1 or less ,and a 0 mana shaman spell that overloads you for 5 yet gives a minion charge and +1 attack ,and you have a turn 1 : 4/1 charge windfury ,a 1/2 pirate ,a 1/1 patches and you at 22 hp before even taking a turn ,do you nerf the new legendary pirate which shines only with Dust Devil ,patches which has been there forever ,Dust Devil the minion unheard of before ,or the 0 mana spell that allows an 8 damage attack on turn 1 bringing a minion back from oblivion ? Cheap resurrect effects are the problem . (as well as Dust Devil and Patches and 1/2 Pirate ,but the biggest villain is obvious)
it's not because a deck is very popular that blizzard will nerf it.
big priest is a tier 1 deck of course but its neither the best or unbeatable.
as of right now i think the wild meta is super healthy with a lot of diversity (of course theres an obvious tier 1 (odd rogue, renolock, evenlock, big priest....)
we are far from a rock paper scissor in wild, and theres a lot of good otk in wild that big priest can do s*** about it
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
No, I think Big priest should disappear because the games the deck provides are not interresting. Highroll or lowroll, stomp or get stomped...
Also, how on earth can you list a tier 1 in wild without Even shaman? That is the clear cancer of the format, and the most powerful deck in the game imo.
Okay yes i agree with both Big priest, and genn and baku nerfs, they are unhealthy for the game and cant really be nerfed easily. in my opinion, if we were to fix big priest, we should focus on nerfing the ressurect mechanic and make barnes a card that summons the minion on the start of next turn if barnes is still alive. ez fix
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.
That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels.
Except it is the most broken card in the game only when played in Big Priest ,with the help of Resurrect and Eternal Servitude ,in other cases he never is extremely problematic like we see here .
Spell hunter would like a word.
Remember renounce lock? Yeah that was fun too wasn't it...
Barnes is extremely problematic. Just because he's at his worst in big priest doesn't mean he's not a problem in other decks.
it's not because a deck is very popular that blizzard will nerf it.
big priest is a tier 1 deck of course but its neither the best or unbeatable.
as of right now i think the wild meta is super healthy with a lot of diversity (of course theres an obvious tier 1 (odd rogue, renolock, evenlock, big priest....)
we are far from a rock paper scissor in wild, and theres a lot of good otk in wild that big priest can do s*** about it
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
I don't know much about wild, but cards/decks do not only get nerfed if they're unbeatable. Shudderwock in standard was very beatable, but it was simply not fun to play against. Fun is very important in games, if you can't have fun, why play? (well apart from hearthstone streamers who surely mostly play for the money.)
Hello and welcome ,I was just willing to tackle the subject of nerfing Barnes (or Big Priest in general) .
For a lot of us ,Big Priest has become somewhat of a hated deck ,and looking at the reasons to why it is hated you find that it is :
a-tier 1 deck (something common between most hated decks in history)
b-filling both casual and ranked game modes (with endless woooows)
c-why people hate turn 3 or 4 against them (Barnes)
d-why I think the deck is problematic which is that every game ,they are able to spawn at least 4 boards that require a Twisting Nether each to be cleared (Blizzard, Flamestrike and Volcano for instance are not enough) ,that is if Kel'thuzad isn't included and they don't discover the Spellstone 2 times from Shadow Visions ,then you would be expecting 8 of these boards (god forbid)
Now to the point of why d is the main problem and not c (c is a problem although not the main one) ,I would like to mention all Big decks that I know about other than Big Priest :
Big Rogue (play it myself) ,Big Shaman (Standard with the overload giant and wild with reincarnate and Kel'thuzad) ,Big Warrior (Recruit) ,Big Druid (Quest or AvianaKun or Twig or DragonHatcher with lots of big dragons) .
We see lots of decks here that in the Wild format never reached tier 1 or 2 with some never reaching tier 4 ,despite having access to : Y'Shaarj, Ragnaros, Kel'thuzad, Lich King, Sylvanas, Barnes ,Ysera and Sneed's Old Shredder ,every class has those yet none of the 8 classes that are not priest were able to produce a tier 2 deck using them .
So It is either Obsidian Statue, Priest's Control tools (Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil and Psychic Scream..etc) or Priest's resurrect tools .
Regarding ObsidianS ,there were numerous times where I had the Priest dead if it weren't for this minion ,restoring at least 4 HP and killing a random enemy minion can be game changing ,but still managable so long as only 2 ObsidianSs are played during the game .
Moving to the control tools and realizing that Aggro is the best counter for this deck ,there really Isn't much to be said . Here, you (people who want Barnes nerfed) are right ,since Barnes gives this deck a push against what is considered it's counter ,trading that 1/1 copy that Barnes summoned (Obsidian maybe) into one of the aggro minions and then summoning 1 or 2 ObsidianS ends the game against most Aggro decks ,and this is why if what I wanted doesn't happen I would be content if they nerf Barnes .
Yet what I want is based on the fact that those 1 or 2 ObsidianS shouldn't be summoned as 4/8 (stats are my point so don't ignore that they are 4/8 or 10/10 or 8/8) as early as turn 4 ,it wouldn't happen without Barnes but it wouldn't happen without Resurrect or Eternal Servitude either .
Take Shadow Essence for example ,which is in my opinion the best card in the deck balance-wise . A 5/5 copy of a minion for 6 mana (which means you don't get that before turn 5) with a little deck restriction you get a powerful effect that Isn't game-breaking and that the opponent can deal with on their turn6 using a similarly costed card .
2 mana summon 10/10 and recruit 4/8 that lifesteals and kills a random minion is way too much . Barnes is a Legendary minion and the 1/1 copy he summons can be dealt with with a hero power ,and in the cases where that 1/1 copy is Y'Shaarj ,either it's : a- a lucky highroll and b- a result of deck restriction like Spell Hunter ,and then it still shouldn't be a heavy problem if you couldn't revive that 1/1 copy once or twice as a 10/10 (not 3/3 or 5/5) using two cards that cost 2 or 4 mana (Resurrect and Eternal Servitude) .
The point is ,nerfing Barnes is definitely a welcome solution although not the best one in my opinion ,as it will turn the deck into a new Quest Rogue (weak against Aggro ,stomps Control most of the time) whereas if resurrect effects were nerfed it would lose what makes it oppressive (hard to clear big boards and early high stats minions) yet still do fine against both Aggro and Control without being killed like Druid .
TL;DR : Nerf Priorities :
1-Resurrect and Eternal Servitude (to resurrecting 4/4 and 6/6 copies maybe of dead minions,stats debatable but definitely not 2 mana 10/10s) .
2-Barnes only ,say welcome to new Quest Rogue .
3-Spellstone (same number of minions but either less stats or make it harder to upgrade).
4-any other card from the deck or two of the previously mentioned options which doesn't solve the problem or overkills the deck respectively .
Resurrect cards should bring back minions with the same stats they died with. It would mostly fix cube decks and resurrect/big priest.
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Hello and welcome ,I was just willing to tackle the subject of nerfing Barnes (or Big Priest in general) .
For a lot of us ,Big Priest has become somewhat of a hated deck ,and looking at the reasons to why it is hated you find that it is :
a-tier 1 deck (something common between most hated decks in history)
b-filling both casual and ranked game modes (with endless woooows)
c-why people hate turn 3 or 4 against them (Barnes)
d-why I think the deck is problematic which is that every game ,they are able to spawn at least 4 boards that require a Twisting Nether each to be cleared (Blizzard, Flamestrike and Volcano for instance are not enough) ,that is if Kel'thuzad isn't included and they don't discover the Spellstone 2 times from Shadow Visions ,then you would be expecting 8 of these boards (god forbid)
Now to the point of why d is the main problem and not c (c is a problem although not the main one) ,I would like to mention all Big decks that I know about other than Big Priest :
Big Rogue (play it myself) ,Big Shaman (Standard with the overload giant and wild with reincarnate and Kel'thuzad) ,Big Warrior (Recruit) ,Big Druid (Quest or AvianaKun or Twig or DragonHatcher with lots of big dragons) .
We see lots of decks here that in the Wild format never reached tier 1 or 2 with some never reaching tier 4 ,despite having access to : Y'Shaarj, Ragnaros, Kel'thuzad, Lich King, Sylvanas, Barnes ,Ysera and Sneed's Old Shredder ,every class has those yet none of the 8 classes that are not priest were able to produce a tier 2 deck using them .
So It is either Obsidian Statue, Priest's Control tools (Spirit Lash, Excavated Evil and Psychic Scream..etc) or Priest's resurrect tools .
Regarding ObsidianS ,there were numerous times where I had the Priest dead if it weren't for this minion ,restoring at least 4 HP and killing a random enemy minion can be game changing ,but still managable so long as only 2 ObsidianSs are played during the game .
Moving to the control tools and realizing that Aggro is the best counter for this deck ,there really Isn't much to be said . Here, you (people who want Barnes nerfed) are right ,since Barnes gives this deck a push against what is considered it's counter ,trading that 1/1 copy that Barnes summoned (Obsidian maybe) into one of the aggro minions and then summoning 1 or 2 ObsidianS ends the game against most Aggro decks ,and this is why if what I wanted doesn't happen I would be content if they nerf Barnes .
Yet what I want is based on the fact that those 1 or 2 ObsidianS shouldn't be summoned as 4/8 (stats are my point so don't ignore that they are 4/8 or 10/10 or 8/8) as early as turn 4 ,it wouldn't happen without Barnes but it wouldn't happen without Resurrect or Eternal Servitude either .
Take Shadow Essence for example ,which is in my opinion the best card in the deck balance-wise . A 5/5 copy of a minion for 6 mana (which means you don't get that before turn 5) with a little deck restriction you get a powerful effect that Isn't game-breaking and that the opponent can deal with on their turn6 using a similarly costed card .
2 mana summon 10/10 and recruit 4/8 that lifesteals and kills a random minion is way too much . Barnes is a Legendary minion and the 1/1 copy he summons can be dealt with with a hero power ,and in the cases where that 1/1 copy is Y'Shaarj ,either it's : a- a lucky highroll and b- a result of deck restriction like Spell Hunter ,and then it still shouldn't be a heavy problem if you couldn't revive that 1/1 copy once or twice as a 10/10 (not 3/3 or 5/5) using two cards that cost 2 or 4 mana (Resurrect and Eternal Servitude) .
The point is ,nerfing Barnes is definitely a welcome solution although not the best one in my opinion ,as it will turn the deck into a new Quest Rogue (weak against Aggro ,stomps Control most of the time) whereas if resurrect effects were nerfed it would lose what makes it oppressive (hard to clear big boards and early high stats minions) yet still do fine against both Aggro and Control without being killed like Druid .
TL;DR : Nerf Priorities :
1-Resurrect and Eternal Servitude (to resurrecting 4/4 and 6/6 copies maybe of dead minions,stats debatable but definitely not 2 mana 10/10s) .
2-Barnes only ,say welcome to new Quest Rogue .
3-Spellstone (same number of minions but either less stats or make it harder to upgrade).
4-any other card from the deck or two of the previously mentioned options which doesn't solve the problem or overkills the deck respectively .
And if they nerf Barnes I agree with the 1/1 "Actor" nerf as it is the best from what I have seen suggested . That is ,no change in mana or stats .
it's not because a deck is very popular that blizzard will nerf it.
big priest is a tier 1 deck of course but its neither the best or unbeatable.
as of right now i think the wild meta is super healthy with a lot of diversity (of course theres an obvious tier 1 (odd rogue, renolock, evenlock, big priest....)
we are far from a rock paper scissor in wild, and theres a lot of good otk in wild that big priest can do s*** about it
if they nerf barnes it will be a terrible mistake because its one of the nicest card in the game, big priest will die of course but a lot of fun/competitive deck will also die like big rogue (one of my favorite deck to play on the ladder)
peace
And make Baku and Genn:
"Start of Game: If your deck has only even/odd-Cost cards and no duplicates, upgrade your Hero Power." :)
Or just simply delete them for good. :D
i would agree with you that those 2 cards are really problematic, in standard they will just rotate some day, but in wild the even/odd mechanic will just continue for ever and its not a good one at all
I agree with your points accept from the most hate decks are tier 1. Kingsbane was a great example of a deck that wasn't tier 1 but was super polarizing therefore being hated.
Most not all .
There is absolutely nothing nice about the most broken card in the game. Barnes is the essence of unfun, high-rolling bullshit. There is nothing 'nice' about losing a game on turn 3-4 because your opponent drew a certain card which you can do nothing about.
That is also the biggest problem with big priest. If you draw Barnes before turn 3-4 your winrate increases to unhealthy levels.
Genn and Baku are ok if say out of 30 popular decks 5 were odd or even ,more than that and they become too dominant just like Giggling ,especially if they are all tier 1. In wild only two are really good (Even Shaman and Odd Rogue) and I think if they are to be nerfed ,the targets shouldn't be Genn and Baku.
There will always be powerful cards and decks. You can never nerf enough. Eventually we'll reach the point of shittalking about magma rager being op.
Ready for action
Except it is the most broken card in the game only when played in Big Priest ,with the help of Resurrect and Eternal Servitude ,in other cases he never is extremely problematic like we see here .
Keleseth on the other hand is broken when drawn in any deck or any class built around him ,because he himself is broken ,and not a certain class' cards that make him so ,he is stronger in Zoolock despite Rogue having Shadowstep ,which means that he is really meta-defining on his own unlike Barnes which shines in a single archetype .
Not true ,certain interactions like Infinite Shudderwock or Infinite healing Kingsbane are problematic ,a minion that dies from a hero power is not .
Take Dust Devil for example ,not problematic and not seen often ,and then add a neutral legendary, a 1 mana Pirate 1/2 that summons a friendly minion from hand that costs 1 or less ,and a 0 mana shaman spell that overloads you for 5 yet gives a minion charge and +1 attack ,and you have a turn 1 : 4/1 charge windfury ,a 1/2 pirate ,a 1/1 patches and you at 22 hp before even taking a turn ,do you nerf the new legendary pirate which shines only with Dust Devil ,patches which has been there forever ,Dust Devil the minion unheard of before ,or the 0 mana spell that allows an 8 damage attack on turn 1 bringing a minion back from oblivion ? Cheap resurrect effects are the problem . (as well as Dust Devil and Patches and 1/2 Pirate ,but the biggest villain is obvious)
No, I think Big priest should disappear because the games the deck provides are not interresting. Highroll or lowroll, stomp or get stomped...
Also, how on earth can you list a tier 1 in wild without Even shaman? That is the clear cancer of the format, and the most powerful deck in the game imo.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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Okay yes i agree with both Big priest, and genn and baku nerfs, they are unhealthy for the game and cant really be nerfed easily. in my opinion, if we were to fix big priest, we should focus on nerfing the ressurect mechanic and make barnes a card that summons the minion on the start of next turn if barnes is still alive. ez fix
Spell hunter would like a word.
Remember renounce lock? Yeah that was fun too wasn't it...
Barnes is extremely problematic. Just because he's at his worst in big priest doesn't mean he's not a problem in other decks.
Wow....
I don't know much about wild, but cards/decks do not only get nerfed if they're unbeatable. Shudderwock in standard was very beatable, but it was simply not fun to play against. Fun is very important in games, if you can't have fun, why play? (well apart from hearthstone streamers who surely mostly play for the money.)
So yes, big priest/barnes will likely be nerfed.
TRIGGERED !
Barnes need to be nerfed, all the other cards in the deck is ok.
5 manas Barnes can be enough.
Resurrect cards should bring back minions with the same stats they died with. It would mostly fix cube decks and resurrect/big priest.