To you and the other guys above, you don’t sound as clever as you think. The card’s text remains the same but the actual effect of the card has drastically changed (unless the dream cards are separate for both versions). The pointless semantics are irrelevant however as Blizzard can choose to give a dust refund for any card they please, even if it hasn’t been nerfed. It’s entirely at their discretion.
It's not about "sounding clever", it's about being factually correct. And in that regard Tommy (and others) are completely correct, regardless of whether people wish to believe it or not.
A card's text provides it's effect and abilities. If those remain unchanged, then the card remains unchanged. If the card's strength lies in the strength of other cards which it synergises with, then those cards are the problem, not the original card, and therefore it cannot be considered a "nerf" to that card specifically and therefore the expectation of compensation is based purely in entitlement and greed and not in the spirit of the game or even basic good faith.
But also, as you surmise in the second half of your paragraph, Blizzard have literally no obligation to provide dust rewards for any change to the cards and do so out of their own good faith. However such generosity then provokes the more selfish-minded of the community to expect this sort of hand out at ever given opportunity and (worse) it becomes a further sense of entitlement and self-service. You only have to look at the reaction of the vocal minority over the changes to the Tavern Pass and gold rewards etc. Even after it was proven that their complaints were factually incorrect. But that's obviously a different discussion that has been done to death by this point and not the focus of this thread... (well, not exactly)
I mean you’re just proving my point by further using the semantics argument.
Yes, the card text is the same, we realise that. The actual card itself in a vacuum is the same. Well done? You’ve shown us all how clever you are in pointing out that fact. Give yourself a pat on the back.
However if we’re to logically look at the situation it’s pretty clear that the card has been considerably effected (we’ll not say ‘nerfed’ as it’s clearly causing you a lot of anguish) to the point where it no longer does what it did when many opened or crafted it. The card is drastically worse due to Blizzard changing the pool of cards it relies on (a pool of cards separate from the rest of the collection of which it now shares with only 1 other card).
Regardless of how selfish you believe the community to be offering some refund to nerfed... sorry, ‘NEGATIVELY EFFECTED’ cards is the right decision on Blizzards part, and seeing as Ysera will be negatively effected with this change (providing the dream cards are the same for both versions) the right thing for Blizzard to do is to offer a dust refund.
If you don’t think a refund should be offered then fair enough, but acting like this has anything to do with entitlement is dishonest and seeming done with the intention of making yourself feel superior in some odd way.
This thread is amazing. I don't know that I've ever seen an argument where both sides are quite this wrong.
Ysera doesn't need a dust refund. Yes, the card is getting worse, but that's only because you're getting a better version of the card for free, alongside the entire core set. Old Ysera is still a Wild playable card, you don't get refunds for cards rotating.
Yes, Ysera has gotten nerfed. The card is worse now. That is what a nerf is. The precedent is to get dust from nerfs, but that doesn't apply here for reasons said above. If the Animal Companions were changed and they now had the same stats as Demon Companions, Animal Companion would unambiguously be being nerfed. If there was a Bear Tamer card with Battlecry: Summon an Ironfur Grizzly and Ironfur Grizzly was changed to be a 0 mana 0/3 Beast with Taunt for whatever reason, Bear Tamer would've gotten nerfed. Stop being deliberately dense. You don't put Ysera in your deck as a 4/12 Dragon, you put it in your deck as a 4/12 Dragon that puts a powerful card in your hand, and the cards she puts in your hand are now worse.
I think an important distinction that needs to be made is that you are not exactly getting the card for free, you are getting to use the card for free. Until they decide it rotates. You can’t dust it, akin to the Halloween old gods event the year before last. It’s essentially a free rental.
why should getting a new card keep you from getting refunded for the old one? I don’t understand this logic even if you were getting a card you could dust. They’re still different cards.
All this said I don’t care about the dust at all, I would prefer the card left alone if possible.
To you and the other guys above, you don’t sound as clever as you think. The card’s text remains the same but the actual effect of the card has drastically changed (unless the dream cards are separate for both versions). The pointless semantics are irrelevant however as Blizzard can choose to give a dust refund for any card they please, even if it hasn’t been nerfed. It’s entirely at their discretion.
It's not about "sounding clever", it's about being factually correct. And in that regard Tommy (and others) are completely correct, regardless of whether people wish to believe it or not.
A card's text provides it's effect and abilities. If those remain unchanged, then the card remains unchanged. If the card's strength lies in the strength of other cards which it synergises with, then those cards are the problem, not the original card, and therefore it cannot be considered a "nerf" to that card specifically and therefore the expectation of compensation is based purely in entitlement and greed and not in the spirit of the game or even basic good faith.
But also, as you surmise in the second half of your paragraph, Blizzard have literally no obligation to provide dust rewards for any change to the cards and do so out of their own good faith. However such generosity then provokes the more selfish-minded of the community to expect this sort of hand out at ever given opportunity and (worse) it becomes a further sense of entitlement and self-service. You only have to look at the reaction of the vocal minority over the changes to the Tavern Pass and gold rewards etc. Even after it was proven that their complaints were factually incorrect. But that's obviously a different discussion that has been done to death by this point and not the focus of this thread... (well, not exactly)
I mean you’re just proving my point by further using the semantics argument.
Yes, the card text is the same, we realise that. The actual card itself in a vacuum is the same. Well done? You’ve shown us all how clever you are in pointing out that fact. Give yourself a pat on the back.
However if we’re to logically look at the situation it’s pretty clear that the card has been considerably effected (we’ll not say ‘nerfed’ as it’s clearly causing you a lot of anguish) to the point where it no longer does what it did when many opened or crafted it. The card is drastically worse due to Blizzard changing the pool of cards it relies on (a pool of cards separate from the rest of the collection of which it now shares with only 1 other card).
Regardless of how selfish you believe the community to be offering some refund to nerfed... sorry, ‘NEGATIVELY EFFECTED’ cards is the right decision on Blizzards part, and seeing as Ysera will be negatively effected with this change (providing the dream cards are the same for both versions) the right thing for Blizzard to do is to offer a dust refund.
If you don’t think a refund should be offered then fair enough, but acting like this has anything to do with entitlement is dishonest and seeming done with the intention of making yourself feel superior in some odd way.
I'm only "superior" by your own volition, not mine. I'll take that as a compliment, though. Thank you.
It's interesting you mention "looking logically at the situation", because that's what I have been doing. using logic, common sense and basic factual information. But you are complaining that this is "semantics" and "acting superior". You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. And, I don't know why you think the word "nerfed" causes anyone some sort of 'anguish' - who gets upset at the word nerfed? I mean, that just sounds a really weak attempt at gaslighting. Poor form, dude.
Essentially here, you haven't really provided any sort of counter argument and instead just appear to be trying to attack me personally, which usually suggests that you have no further valid argument and this discussion is probably over. Thanks again.
My argument is pretty clear, you should see that given you are the self appointed king of reading comprehension.
To summarise however:
The changes to Dream cards, which are exclusive to ‘Ysera’ and ‘Ysera the Dreamer’ - regardless of how you would like to describe those changes - have left the ‘Ysera’ card in a far less playable state.
It is of my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that those changes clearly provide a large enough negative change to the card that a full dust refund should be issued. It’s at Blizzards’ discretion whether or not this should happen - as it is with all cards.
You believe that only cards who’s text and/or ability changes should be refunded, and that anyone who disagrees is greedy and entitled. I find that illogical due to how needlessly restrictive it is, and would much prefer cards to be looked at on a case by case basis with a fair judgement call being made.
P.S as a heads up, if you want people to remain on topic and not ‘get personal’ then you should probably stop throwing insults first?
To everyone that said this didn’t deserve (warrant?) a refund, do you still think that? Did Glinda not deserve (warrant?) a refund when they nerfed keyword Echo?
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I don’t know if it’s a buff or a nerf… some dream cards were more powerful before, but you never knew which one you’d get. Plus, if your opponent killed Ysera next turn, you only got one. Getting all the dream cards immediately is much stronger.
On the other hand, the old Ysera was almost guaranteed to draw out a kill card from the opponent’s hand since they didn’t want you to get a free card each turn.
In the end, it’s really just a different card now.
I don’t know if it’s a buff or a nerf… some dream cards were more powerful before, but you never knew which one you’d get. Plus, if your opponent killed Ysera next turn, you only got one. Getting all the dream cards immediately is much stronger.
On the other hand, the old Ysera was almost guaranteed to draw out a kill card from the opponent’s hand since they didn’t want you to get a free card each turn.
In the end, it’s really just a different card now.
Dude, you're unfortunately uninformed. The old ysera isn't being changed into the new ysera. it's a completely other card
I don’t know if it’s a buff or a nerf… some dream cards were more powerful before, but you never knew which one you’d get. Plus, if your opponent killed Ysera next turn, you only got one. Getting all the dream cards immediately is much stronger.
On the other hand, the old Ysera was almost guaranteed to draw out a kill card from the opponent’s hand since they didn’t want you to get a free card each turn.
In the end, it’s really just a different card now.
The new Ysera is a different card. There is another change, where the dream cards themselves are being changed (generally nerfed), hence the dust refund.
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
You’re getting far too worked up over the word “deserve,” like the other guy. I could have said warrants.
The point is not about what we “deserve” as customers or anything like that, I’m simply asking about the praxis of card nerfs and if it will result in a dust refund.
When I say deserve here, I mean to understand the process ubiquitously and what technically “warrants” a dust refund.
I made the post pretty late last night my time, and didn’t think the word “deserve” would attract such connotations. I literally lacked the ability to come up with a better description for the word at the time. If you look at the rest of the post you’ll see I don’t care about getting dust back. Sorry for the confusion
Also posts like this help them go in favor of a refund, as well as people asking a question on twitter.
I am curious if you can remind me of any cards besides mekgineer thermaplug that have been nerfed and not received a refund.
Personally I think if that card were around today and the change to leper gnomes happened they would refund as the new Team 5 seems to operate differently.
All that said are there other like it? I don’t remember/can’t think of one.
they actually talked about it and they do give the dust back for old Ysera
so we can craft it and get dust back???
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
You’re getting far too worked up over the word “deserve,” like the other guy. I could have said warrants.
The point is not about what we “deserve” as customers or anything like that, I’m simply asking about the praxis of card nerfs and if it will result in a dust refund.
When I say deserve here, I mean to understand the process ubiquitously and what technically “warrants” a dust refund.
I made the post pretty late last night my time, and didn’t think the word “deserve” would attract such connotations. I literally lacked the ability to come up with a better description for the word at the time. If you look at the rest of the post you’ll see I don’t care about getting dust back. Sorry for the confusion
Fair enough. To be honest I wasn't looking at your post in particular, there were two other people going back and forth over the deserve idea, and their version was definitely not a stand-in for "warrants".
But regarding the question of whether something ever got nerfed without a dust refund, I can certainly remember quite a few times when people were arguing that constructive nerfs existed via other cards being nerfed, sets or individual cards rotating to Wild that affected the power of other cards in standard, etc. The person I had in mind when writing my post made direct reference to the "nerf" of something else rotating out of standard. And under that definition, far more "nerfs" have gone without refunds than have received them.
I realize that's a bit of a dodge, but I could swear there . . . OH OH, I remember!!!! when the Dr. Boom's Lab buffs got handed down to cards like Extra Arms et al, people were straight facedly saying that a buff to a card switching it from even to odd cost or vice versa constituted a nerf in reality, because it couldn't now be included in its old Baku or Genn deck. That was a HUGE dust up on the forum back then.
Given that the relative buffage or nerfage of Ysera is (at most charitable) in doubt . . . actually it's a buff by every objective standard we've ever used to discuss such things before, but to be VERY tolerant, let's say it's in doubt . . . similarly to the concept of a card getting cheaper but it somehow being a nerf because it now can't be included in a tier 1 Baku deck, there's your argued nerf with no refund.
I realize the logic was as bad there as the sentence was run-on, but I didn't come up with this ridiculousness. I'm just the bastard with the long memory.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
You’re getting far too worked up over the word “deserve,” like the other guy. I could have said warrants.
The point is not about what we “deserve” as customers or anything like that, I’m simply asking about the praxis of card nerfs and if it will result in a dust refund.
When I say deserve here, I mean to understand the process ubiquitously and what technically “warrants” a dust refund.
I made the post pretty late last night my time, and didn’t think the word “deserve” would attract such connotations. I literally lacked the ability to come up with a better description for the word at the time. If you look at the rest of the post you’ll see I don’t care about getting dust back. Sorry for the confusion
Fair enough. To be honest I wasn't looking at your post in particular, there were two other people going back and forth over the deserve idea, and their version was definitely not a stand-in for "warrants".
But regarding the question of whether something ever got nerfed without a dust refund, I can certainly remember quite a few times when people were arguing that constructive nerfs existed via other cards being nerfed, sets or individual cards rotating to Wild that affected the power of other cards in standard, etc. The person I had in mind when writing my post made direct reference to the "nerf" of something else rotating out of standard. And under that definition, far more "nerfs" have gone without refunds than have received them.
I realize that's a bit of a dodge, but I could swear there . . . OH OH, I remember!!!! when the Dr. Boom's Lab buffs got handed down to cards like Extra Arms et al, people were straight facedly saying that a buff to a card switching it from even to odd cost or vice versa constituted a nerf in reality, because it couldn't now be included in its old Baku or Genn deck. That was a HUGE dust up on the forum back then.
Given that the relative buffage or nerfage of Ysera is (at most charitable) in doubt . . . actually it's a buff by every objective standard we've ever used to discuss such things before, but to be VERY tolerant, let's say it's in doubt . . . similarly to the concept of a card getting cheaper but it somehow being a nerf because it now can't be included in a tier 1 Baku deck, there's your argued nerf with no refund.
I realize the logic was as bad there as the sentence was run-on, but I didn't come up with this ridiculousness. I'm just the bastard with the long memory.
There is no "buff" to ysera. The new ysera is a different card entirely. The old one will still exist, and when the core set rotates, we will no longer have access to the new ysera and be stuck with the old, worse one which is even worse now due to the dream nerfs, which is why it's already confirmed they are giving dust refunds on it.
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
You’re getting far too worked up over the word “deserve,” like the other guy. I could have said warrants.
The point is not about what we “deserve” as customers or anything like that, I’m simply asking about the praxis of card nerfs and if it will result in a dust refund.
When I say deserve here, I mean to understand the process ubiquitously and what technically “warrants” a dust refund.
I made the post pretty late last night my time, and didn’t think the word “deserve” would attract such connotations. I literally lacked the ability to come up with a better description for the word at the time. If you look at the rest of the post you’ll see I don’t care about getting dust back. Sorry for the confusion
Fair enough. To be honest I wasn't looking at your post in particular, there were two other people going back and forth over the deserve idea, and their version was definitely not a stand-in for "warrants".
But regarding the question of whether something ever got nerfed without a dust refund, I can certainly remember quite a few times when people were arguing that constructive nerfs existed via other cards being nerfed, sets or individual cards rotating to Wild that affected the power of other cards in standard, etc. The person I had in mind when writing my post made direct reference to the "nerf" of something else rotating out of standard. And under that definition, far more "nerfs" have gone without refunds than have received them.
I realize that's a bit of a dodge, but I could swear there . . . OH OH, I remember!!!! when the Dr. Boom's Lab buffs got handed down to cards like Extra Arms et al, people were straight facedly saying that a buff to a card switching it from even to odd cost or vice versa constituted a nerf in reality, because it couldn't now be included in its old Baku or Genn deck. That was a HUGE dust up on the forum back then.
Given that the relative buffage or nerfage of Ysera is (at most charitable) in doubt . . . actually it's a buff by every objective standard we've ever used to discuss such things before, but to be VERY tolerant, let's say it's in doubt . . . similarly to the concept of a card getting cheaper but it somehow being a nerf because it now can't be included in a tier 1 Baku deck, there's your argued nerf with no refund.
I realize the logic was as bad there as the sentence was run-on, but I didn't come up with this ridiculousness. I'm just the bastard with the long memory.
A Card being buffed or nerfed is irrelevant, if Blizzard change a card so that it is no longer viable in a certain deck then many people who crafted that card to be used in that deck are going to be annoyed.
I have a decent collection so I’m not really effected by dust refunds too much, they’re more of a nice bonus, but some players only have the money and/or time to run a handful of decks and these changes can effect their ability to properly play the game.
Regardless of whatever interpretation of ‘deserve’ you want to go with, I’m struggling to see how you can justify people having their cards and/or decks purposefully or accidentally destroyed by Blizzard with no compensation.
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I mean you’re just proving my point by further using the semantics argument.
Yes, the card text is the same, we realise that. The actual card itself in a vacuum is the same. Well done? You’ve shown us all how clever you are in pointing out that fact. Give yourself a pat on the back.
However if we’re to logically look at the situation it’s pretty clear that the card has been considerably effected (we’ll not say ‘nerfed’ as it’s clearly causing you a lot of anguish) to the point where it no longer does what it did when many opened or crafted it. The card is drastically worse due to Blizzard changing the pool of cards it relies on (a pool of cards separate from the rest of the collection of which it now shares with only 1 other card).
Regardless of how selfish you believe the community to be offering some refund to nerfed... sorry, ‘NEGATIVELY EFFECTED’ cards is the right decision on Blizzards part, and seeing as Ysera will be negatively effected with this change (providing the dream cards are the same for both versions) the right thing for Blizzard to do is to offer a dust refund.
If you don’t think a refund should be offered then fair enough, but acting like this has anything to do with entitlement is dishonest and seeming done with the intention of making yourself feel superior in some odd way.
I think an important distinction that needs to be made is that you are not exactly getting the card for free, you are getting to use the card for free. Until they decide it rotates. You can’t dust it, akin to the Halloween old gods event the year before last. It’s essentially a free rental.
why should getting a new card keep you from getting refunded for the old one? I don’t understand this logic even if you were getting a card you could dust. They’re still different cards.
All this said I don’t care about the dust at all, I would prefer the card left alone if possible.
I'm only "superior" by your own volition, not mine. I'll take that as a compliment, though. Thank you.
It's interesting you mention "looking logically at the situation", because that's what I have been doing. using logic, common sense and basic factual information. But you are complaining that this is "semantics" and "acting superior". You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.
And, I don't know why you think the word "nerfed" causes anyone some sort of 'anguish' - who gets upset at the word nerfed? I mean, that just sounds a really weak attempt at gaslighting. Poor form, dude.
Essentially here, you haven't really provided any sort of counter argument and instead just appear to be trying to attack me personally, which usually suggests that you have no further valid argument and this discussion is probably over. Thanks again.
My argument is pretty clear, you should see that given you are the self appointed king of reading comprehension.
To summarise however:
The changes to Dream cards, which are exclusive to ‘Ysera’ and ‘Ysera the Dreamer’ - regardless of how you would like to describe those changes - have left the ‘Ysera’ card in a far less playable state.
It is of my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that those changes clearly provide a large enough negative change to the card that a full dust refund should be issued. It’s at Blizzards’ discretion whether or not this should happen - as it is with all cards.
You believe that only cards who’s text and/or ability changes should be refunded, and that anyone who disagrees is greedy and entitled. I find that illogical due to how needlessly restrictive it is, and would much prefer cards to be looked at on a case by case basis with a fair judgement call being made.
P.S as a heads up, if you want people to remain on topic and not ‘get personal’ then you should probably stop throwing insults first?
Good advice. You should take it.
So unfortunately Old Ysera is getting nerfed and it’s confirmed here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Celestalon/status/1365107075383107584
But we are getting a dust refund and that is confirmed as well:
https://mobile.twitter.com/GW_Alec/status/1365329751993327623
To everyone that said this didn’t deserve (warrant?) a refund, do you still think that? Did Glinda not deserve (warrant?) a refund when they nerfed keyword Echo?
Of course we don't "deserve" a dust refund.
People have gone 4 pages over "deserved" when we know from past experience that ever dust refund has been a judgment call. Some changes have come with refunds. Some changes haven't. Your only leverage to affect that is whether or not you spend money on the game. So Blizzard will continue to run an analysis of whether or not they think giving a refund is necessary to encourage continued money spent on the game.
Where do you get this weird "deserve" idea?
I suppose it's better than the moron in my thread who thinks that changing cards after we've paid money for them is literally a crime of some kind, so I'll give credit there. But still, the analysis of whether you've gotten your refunds or not has never had an ounce to do with your deserving.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I don’t know if it’s a buff or a nerf… some dream cards were more powerful before, but you never knew which one you’d get. Plus, if your opponent killed Ysera next turn, you only got one. Getting all the dream cards immediately is much stronger.
On the other hand, the old Ysera was almost guaranteed to draw out a kill card from the opponent’s hand since they didn’t want you to get a free card each turn.
In the end, it’s really just a different card now.
Dude, you're unfortunately uninformed. The old ysera isn't being changed into the new ysera. it's a completely other card
The new Ysera is a different card. There is another change, where the dream cards themselves are being changed (generally nerfed), hence the dust refund.
You’re getting far too worked up over the word “deserve,” like the other guy. I could have said warrants.
The point is not about what we “deserve” as customers or anything like that, I’m simply asking about the praxis of card nerfs and if it will result in a dust refund.
When I say deserve here, I mean to understand the process ubiquitously and what technically “warrants” a dust refund.
I made the post pretty late last night my time, and didn’t think the word “deserve” would attract such connotations. I literally lacked the ability to come up with a better description for the word at the time. If you look at the rest of the post you’ll see I don’t care about getting dust back. Sorry for the confusion
Also posts like this help them go in favor of a refund, as well as people asking a question on twitter.
I am curious if you can remind me of any cards besides mekgineer thermaplug that have been nerfed and not received a refund.
Personally I think if that card were around today and the change to leper gnomes happened they would refund as the new Team 5 seems to operate differently.
All that said are there other like it? I don’t remember/can’t think of one.
"... Basic cards do not get a refund since they are Basic. There will be a refund for the old Ysera since her Dream cards have changed."
So yeah, there will be a refund for the old Ysera.
they actually talked about it and they do give the dust back for old Ysera
so we can craft it and get dust back???
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
Blizzard has confirmed that you will be able to dust old Ysera for full dust compensation due to her dreams getting changed/nerfed.
Quote from Alec Dawson - "There will be a refund for the old Ysera since her Dream cards have changed."
Source quote https://twitter.com/GW_Alec/status/1365329751993327623
Fair enough. To be honest I wasn't looking at your post in particular, there were two other people going back and forth over the deserve idea, and their version was definitely not a stand-in for "warrants".
But regarding the question of whether something ever got nerfed without a dust refund, I can certainly remember quite a few times when people were arguing that constructive nerfs existed via other cards being nerfed, sets or individual cards rotating to Wild that affected the power of other cards in standard, etc. The person I had in mind when writing my post made direct reference to the "nerf" of something else rotating out of standard. And under that definition, far more "nerfs" have gone without refunds than have received them.
I realize that's a bit of a dodge, but I could swear there . . . OH OH, I remember!!!! when the Dr. Boom's Lab buffs got handed down to cards like Extra Arms et al, people were straight facedly saying that a buff to a card switching it from even to odd cost or vice versa constituted a nerf in reality, because it couldn't now be included in its old Baku or Genn deck. That was a HUGE dust up on the forum back then.
Given that the relative buffage or nerfage of Ysera is (at most charitable) in doubt . . . actually it's a buff by every objective standard we've ever used to discuss such things before, but to be VERY tolerant, let's say it's in doubt . . . similarly to the concept of a card getting cheaper but it somehow being a nerf because it now can't be included in a tier 1 Baku deck, there's your argued nerf with no refund.
I realize the logic was as bad there as the sentence was run-on, but I didn't come up with this ridiculousness. I'm just the bastard with the long memory.
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There is no "buff" to ysera. The new ysera is a different card entirely. The old one will still exist, and when the core set rotates, we will no longer have access to the new ysera and be stuck with the old, worse one which is even worse now due to the dream nerfs, which is why it's already confirmed they are giving dust refunds on it.
A Card being buffed or nerfed is irrelevant, if Blizzard change a card so that it is no longer viable in a certain deck then many people who crafted that card to be used in that deck are going to be annoyed.
I have a decent collection so I’m not really effected by dust refunds too much, they’re more of a nice bonus, but some players only have the money and/or time to run a handful of decks and these changes can effect their ability to properly play the game.
Regardless of whatever interpretation of ‘deserve’ you want to go with, I’m struggling to see how you can justify people having their cards and/or decks purposefully or accidentally destroyed by Blizzard with no compensation.