Tickatus won't ever see a chance to see the board in an aggro matchup, agreed. It's basically a dead card in those matchups.
Don't we all agree though that in a control/combo matchup (in combination with y'shaarj, of course) its effect is unfair and op, reducing the opponent's chances to win by roughly 75/80%?!?
Again. It would be a 6-mana 8/8 demon that happens to burn 3 cards from the opponent's deck. I'm completely missing the "that would make it totally unplayable" argument. It's no-sense.
This card sucks so fucking much, it’s a waste of lifetime if your playing a control deck, just insta concede
It’s wayyyyyy to easy to acitvate.
6 Mana 8/8 destroy 5 fucking cards just because you played one card with higher costs? it’s just a six mana card, lol !? and you can reduce it’s cost cause it’s a demon.
The Mindrender Ilucia Nerf was just a joke, a 3 Mana 1/3 wich can backfire so fucking hard vs a 6 Mana 8/8 wich destroys 30% of your opponenta deck...twice.
Nothing emotional or over exaggerated in this response whatsoever lol.
First it’s not a joke. I’m assuming you are a warlock Tickatus player so I understand why you are defending it. Not everybody faces aggressive zoolocks, rogues or DH. I think the game matches you differently. You say that Thijs can beat gala warlocks but he does not represent the casual or normal player. Not everybody is a pro player.
My argument was for us players that play Control or combo decks. There is no deny that Tickatus as of now, is a problem for control and combo decks now and in future expansions.
BTW, I play standard. I don’t know about wild.
You certainly assume a lot about people in this thread.... Maybe you should just not play decks that you seemingly admit not having the adequate skill level to play
First it’s not a joke. I’m assuming you are a warlock Tickatus player so I understand why you are defending it. Not everybody faces aggressive zoolocks, rogues or DH. I think the game matches you differently. You say that Thijs can beat gala warlocks but he does not represent the casual or normal player. Not everybody is a pro player.
My argument was for us players that play Control or combo decks. There is no deny that Tickatus as of now, is a problem for control and combo decks now and in future expansions.
BTW, I play standard. I don’t know about wild.
You certainly assume a lot about people in this thread.... Maybe you should just not play decks that you seemingly admit not having the adequate skill level to play
I Wasn't even talking to you or assuming anything to do with other people. I was responding to a comment by Enox_36. You seem like you are the offensive one. Twice you have attacked my comments and now your saying I don’t have adequate skill to play...then why am I legend rank? I never admitted “not having the adequate skill to play”.
I said that when playing control decks or combo decks, I very much have a hard time winning against a Tickatus deck. If you think that’s because lack of skill you are clearly mistaken.
Give me ur battletag, lets do 5 games and see what the fk is op about warlock. U are crying that u lose with a certain deck archetype. Duh isnt this what hearthstone is about? A deck loses to another deck, that deck loses to another deck. Isnt this logical? I hardly win against warrior and priest without tickatus. Most of the times i draw tickatus too late, or my priest boy fatigues me. And so on
First it’s not a joke. I’m assuming you are a warlock Tickatus player so I understand why you are defending it. Not everybody faces aggressive zoolocks, rogues or DH. I think the game matches you differently. You say that Thijs can beat gala warlocks but he does not represent the casual or normal player. Not everybody is a pro player.
My argument was for us players that play Control or combo decks. There is no deny that Tickatus as of now, is a problem for control and combo decks now and in future expansions.
BTW, I play standard. I don’t know about wild.
You certainly assume a lot about people in this thread.... Maybe you should just not play decks that you seemingly admit not having the adequate skill level to play
I Wasn't even talking to you or assuming anything to do with other people. I was responding to a comment by Enox_36. You seem like you are the offensive one. Twice you have attacked my comments and now your saying I don’t have adequate skill to play...then why am I legend rank? I never admitted “not having the adequate skill to play”.
I said that when playing control decks or combo decks, I very much have a hard time winning against a Tickatus deck. If you think that’s because lack of skill you are clearly mistaken.
My comments are no more snarky than yours friend. You've twice stated that the rest of us who disagree with you in that tickatus is an auto concede opponent for control/combo decks either don't play those decks or play tickatus themselves. I simply present the contradiction. Then you say that HS should get nerfs in order to fit a lower skill level than now, so that you can keep playing the same decks against what you consider a hard counter without making any adaptations. Does this mean that you're exaggerating the problem or just won't accept that you need to get better in order to change things? Sorry if I answered for you up front. From your last comment it just seems like you're salty, so maybe we should just end it here.
BTW: If I play control warrior against tickatus, I'll also lose most of the times. That's the beautiful part of having multiple play styles with strengths and weaknesses. I can still improve my odds by altering my tactics, but will have no guarantee of either winning or losing. And if you're legend rank, what's the problem really?
First it’s not a joke. I’m assuming you are a warlock Tickatus player so I understand why you are defending it. Not everybody faces aggressive zoolocks, rogues or DH. I think the game matches you differently. You say that Thijs can beat gala warlocks but he does not represent the casual or normal player. Not everybody is a pro player.
My argument was for us players that play Control or combo decks. There is no deny that Tickatus as of now, is a problem for control and combo decks now and in future expansions.
BTW, I play standard. I don’t know about wild.
your argument was about tickatus in high ranks. now that someone showed you an example of how he really performes in those high ranks you twist your argument and say it's about casual players...
as someone who played a lot of tickatus and roughly the same amount of other control decks in different classes this expansion I can tell you he's not a really good card. you can highroll with/ get highrolled by him, but that doesn't happen that often, and even than it's not a guaranteed win for the warlock... at the moment I play a way too greedy meme mage with all 4 old gods and I even won games where a warlock burned all 3 gods + 1 c'thun part. they don't have any other real threats (at least they aren't a threat for any decent control deck) and often have to go so deep into their own deck to find tickatus, activators + y'shaarj that they don't even win in fatigue most of the time
Don't we all agree though that in a control/combo matchup (in combination with y'shaarj, of course) its effect is unfair and op, reducing the opponent's chances to win by roughly 75/80%?!?
Control players are refusing to main deck Elysiana, so no, this is not unfair in the slightest. A direct card for card counter exists and players are not using it. I laddered to legend this month exclusively with a control Shaman list that had no win condition except for fatigue. If Tickatus missed my Elysiana (he’s effectively only 1 in 6 to hit her each time he’s played and I would keep her in the mulligan and play double far sight to get to her ASAP), they had absolutely no chance to win because I could clear every single board and had up to 4 heals for 20 per game. As my deck was -10 +10, they fatigued sooner due to offset from life tap. I was more than happy with a 70% win rate in this matchup.
Warlock cannot have a late game control deck unless it has this kind of option, because life tap is counterintuitive to the deck’s win condition so without cards like Azari and Tickatus, warlock is limited to one old, shitty and boring aggro concept that they’ve had since the dawn of hearthstone (since apparently devs won’t allow handlock or any other decent midrange warlock deck to happen again for some weird reason).
As far as beating combo decks goes, I have actually always loved combo breakers in hearthstone because there is such limited disruption available. I like that Tickatus has a pretty much even shot at disrupting a combo. When you actually run the numbers, he is a lot fairer than Mindrender Illucia, who gives you significantly more control over your opponent’s win condition, and a significantly higher chance to hit it (especially as most current combos have a required set up or conditions that must be met before they work, you often know exactly when to play her, while Tickatus is mostly just random, late game vs C’thun being a rare exception).
What I would like to see, rather than a nerf to Tickatus, is a skill-based counterplay card released when Elysiana rotates (something akin to Dirty Rat from MSoG) as I do think he will become a toxic presence once his hard negator is removed.
There definitely needs to be cards that disrupt like this in the game. It's perfectly normal, and all things considered, there aren't even a lot of them right now. DH has a couple, priest has one... other stuff that's in wild, but that's wild... Hecklebot is sort of one. But all of these come with ups and downs.
Tickatus is fine the way he is and if my deck hasn't beaten the warlock by the time they corrupt it and toss it on the board, then good on 'em, they deserve it.
Also, for the longest time, I thought Elysiana was a classic card they added in to replace something they HoF'd... that's pretty weird, it must have been something else. But she is definitely a great pick to counter Tickatus. I don't use her because I never unpacked one :(
To go into a little more detail on this, let’s compare Tickatus to a card that (quite rightly) got nerfed recently, Boggspine Knuckles. Since I’ve hailed “just use Elysiana” as a control counter to Tickatus, while I was vehemently against the argument “just use Stickyfinger” as a counter to Boggspine, it would be hypocritical if I didn’t explain my reasoning.
Boggspine warped the entire game around it and almost everything was forced to tech heavily against it with 1 (or more often 2) Stickyfingers to combat it, including at the top level of ladder play. This is the mark of an overpowered card. When you look at Tickatus in the same light, it isn’t remotely close to achieving this. Any deck with an “attack my opponent” win condition can crush Warlock before Tickatus is even relevant or apply enough pressure to make playing him impossible. What we are looking at is a narrow deck archetype that has an INHERENT WEAKNESS to having their cards milled. Given that control decks are inherently weak to mill, it is a perfectly reasonable solution to run anti-mill tech in these decks to (significantly) improve a miserable matchup. This it not the same as 80% of field being forced to run heavy weapon tech because a weapon is so oppressive that barely anything can breach a 45% win rate against it without doing so.
Improvements to combo decks to make them more Tickatus proof are already being explored. Combo decks do not have to be 1 dimensional OTKs reliant on single legendary cards. Take a look at the current ETC Warrior lists for example. Players have forgone the pure version of deck in favour of an Enrage/ETC hybrid. This deck has a number of damage dealing combos, including Kor’kron Elite combos ranging from 12 to 28 damage, and techs in an ETC combo capable of dealing up to 42 damage under the right conditions. This shift is happening because the standard ETC control warrior had all its eggs in one basket, and disrupting ETC or playing round it by leaving your board sufficiently empty to deny enough rush minion attacks was extremely easy for slow decks to accomplish, and completely denied their only win condition. The result of the shift is a multi dimensional deck that can apply pressure in the early game and has tons of reach with a variety of late game combo plays, making it both significantly more difficult to get into a comfortable position to even drop Tickatus against in the first place, and significantly more difficult to disrupt simply by fucking a few random cards into the bin.
Better deck building and better play will show Tickatus up as the very reasonable card it is as the format develops.
This is the mark of an overpowered card. When you look at Tickatus in the same light, it isn’t remotely close to achieving this.
Evolve shaman was (and still is, in a lesser manner) a super-tempo fast deck (similar to aggro, but still not it exactly, even though the damage output by turn 6 is similar), effcient against a wide range of decks and archetypes, Tickatus warlock is a control deck that fares well against other control/combo but poorly against aggro. Meta is and will always be leaning heavily on aggro, given how it's dictated by F2Players. So... do I need to state the obvious?
This is one of these cards you hope will be good, they seems so powerful when your opponent plays them (mostly because you play shitty deck), then you start playing them and they do not look so good anymore. Tickatus is powerful, but meta is too fast and will never slow down enough for it to be a serious contender. Yes, control does suffer, but control decks suffer from this meta full of aggro and otks anyway.
Still it's aggro who has best disruption - destroy mana crystal for zoo or your opponent has 2 less mana for DH.
Honestly I really despise this card from a design standpoint. It's a bad card, especially in the current meta. I won't deny that it's not a very strong card. But it just feels so fucking bad to play against. I put my cards in my deck for my reason, seeing 16% or even 33% of them just straight up destroyed just feels bad to play against. I think that's the crux of the problem, it just is a 'feels bad' card to play against.
Honestly I really despise this card from a design standpoint. It's a bad card, especially in the current meta. I won't deny that it's not a very strong card. But it just feels so fucking bad to play against. I put my cards in my deck for my reason, seeing 16% or even 33% of them just straight up destroyed just feels bad to play against. I think that's the crux of the problem, it just is a 'feels bad' card to play against.
What i don't understand is how this bothers people who play control decks which would normally be straight up defeated by a traditional one shot combo deck. Like you actually sometimes get to play out something and steal a win.
Because if you play warrior you can actually tank the great majority of combo decks, but if they mill your own win condition you just straight up lose. *cries in Dead man's hand warrior main*
Question is different though.
It's not about how relevant the deck is.
Tickatus won't ever see a chance to see the board in an aggro matchup, agreed. It's basically a dead card in those matchups.
Don't we all agree though that in a control/combo matchup (in combination with y'shaarj, of course) its effect is unfair and op, reducing the opponent's chances to win by roughly 75/80%?!?
Again. It would be a 6-mana 8/8 demon that happens to burn 3 cards from the opponent's deck. I'm completely missing the "that would make it totally unplayable" argument. It's no-sense.
Nothing emotional or over exaggerated in this response whatsoever lol.
I lost twice today against Wild Tickatus but he is perfect the way he is. As said above, it is not autowin card.
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You certainly assume a lot about people in this thread.... Maybe you should just not play decks that you seemingly admit not having the adequate skill level to play
I Wasn't even talking to you or assuming anything to do with other people. I was responding to a comment by Enox_36. You seem like you are the offensive one. Twice you have attacked my comments and now your saying I don’t have adequate skill to play...then why am I legend rank? I never admitted “not having the adequate skill to play”.
I said that when playing control decks or combo decks, I very much have a hard time winning against a Tickatus deck. If you think that’s because lack of skill you are clearly mistaken.
Give me ur battletag, lets do 5 games and see what the fk is op about warlock. U are crying that u lose with a certain deck archetype. Duh isnt this what hearthstone is about? A deck loses to another deck, that deck loses to another deck. Isnt this logical? I hardly win against warrior and priest without tickatus. Most of the times i draw tickatus too late, or my priest boy fatigues me. And so on
My comments are no more snarky than yours friend. You've twice stated that the rest of us who disagree with you in that tickatus is an auto concede opponent for control/combo decks either don't play those decks or play tickatus themselves. I simply present the contradiction. Then you say that HS should get nerfs in order to fit a lower skill level than now, so that you can keep playing the same decks against what you consider a hard counter without making any adaptations. Does this mean that you're exaggerating the problem or just won't accept that you need to get better in order to change things? Sorry if I answered for you up front. From your last comment it just seems like you're salty, so maybe we should just end it here.
BTW: If I play control warrior against tickatus, I'll also lose most of the times. That's the beautiful part of having multiple play styles with strengths and weaknesses. I can still improve my odds by altering my tactics, but will have no guarantee of either winning or losing. And if you're legend rank, what's the problem really?
your argument was about tickatus in high ranks. now that someone showed you an example of how he really performes in those high ranks you twist your argument and say it's about casual players...
as someone who played a lot of tickatus and roughly the same amount of other control decks in different classes this expansion I can tell you he's not a really good card. you can highroll with/ get highrolled by him, but that doesn't happen that often, and even than it's not a guaranteed win for the warlock... at the moment I play a way too greedy meme mage with all 4 old gods and I even won games where a warlock burned all 3 gods + 1 c'thun part. they don't have any other real threats (at least they aren't a threat for any decent control deck) and often have to go so deep into their own deck to find tickatus, activators + y'shaarj that they don't even win in fatigue most of the time
Control players are refusing to main deck Elysiana, so no, this is not unfair in the slightest. A direct card for card counter exists and players are not using it. I laddered to legend this month exclusively with a control Shaman list that had no win condition except for fatigue. If Tickatus missed my Elysiana (he’s effectively only 1 in 6 to hit her each time he’s played and I would keep her in the mulligan and play double far sight to get to her ASAP), they had absolutely no chance to win because I could clear every single board and had up to 4 heals for 20 per game. As my deck was -10 +10, they fatigued sooner due to offset from life tap. I was more than happy with a 70% win rate in this matchup.
Warlock cannot have a late game control deck unless it has this kind of option, because life tap is counterintuitive to the deck’s win condition so without cards like Azari and Tickatus, warlock is limited to one old, shitty and boring aggro concept that they’ve had since the dawn of hearthstone (since apparently devs won’t allow handlock or any other decent midrange warlock deck to happen again for some weird reason).
As far as beating combo decks goes, I have actually always loved combo breakers in hearthstone because there is such limited disruption available. I like that Tickatus has a pretty much even shot at disrupting a combo. When you actually run the numbers, he is a lot fairer than Mindrender Illucia, who gives you significantly more control over your opponent’s win condition, and a significantly higher chance to hit it (especially as most current combos have a required set up or conditions that must be met before they work, you often know exactly when to play her, while Tickatus is mostly just random, late game vs C’thun being a rare exception).
What I would like to see, rather than a nerf to Tickatus, is a skill-based counterplay card released when Elysiana rotates (something akin to Dirty Rat from MSoG) as I do think he will become a toxic presence once his hard negator is removed.
There definitely needs to be cards that disrupt like this in the game. It's perfectly normal, and all things considered, there aren't even a lot of them right now. DH has a couple, priest has one... other stuff that's in wild, but that's wild... Hecklebot is sort of one. But all of these come with ups and downs.
Tickatus is fine the way he is and if my deck hasn't beaten the warlock by the time they corrupt it and toss it on the board, then good on 'em, they deserve it.
Also, for the longest time, I thought Elysiana was a classic card they added in to replace something they HoF'd... that's pretty weird, it must have been something else. But she is definitely a great pick to counter Tickatus. I don't use her because I never unpacked one :(
To go into a little more detail on this, let’s compare Tickatus to a card that (quite rightly) got nerfed recently, Boggspine Knuckles. Since I’ve hailed “just use Elysiana” as a control counter to Tickatus, while I was vehemently against the argument “just use Stickyfinger” as a counter to Boggspine, it would be hypocritical if I didn’t explain my reasoning.
Boggspine warped the entire game around it and almost everything was forced to tech heavily against it with 1 (or more often 2) Stickyfingers to combat it, including at the top level of ladder play. This is the mark of an overpowered card. When you look at Tickatus in the same light, it isn’t remotely close to achieving this. Any deck with an “attack my opponent” win condition can crush Warlock before Tickatus is even relevant or apply enough pressure to make playing him impossible. What we are looking at is a narrow deck archetype that has an INHERENT WEAKNESS to having their cards milled. Given that control decks are inherently weak to mill, it is a perfectly reasonable solution to run anti-mill tech in these decks to (significantly) improve a miserable matchup. This it not the same as 80% of field being forced to run heavy weapon tech because a weapon is so oppressive that barely anything can breach a 45% win rate against it without doing so.
Improvements to combo decks to make them more Tickatus proof are already being explored. Combo decks do not have to be 1 dimensional OTKs reliant on single legendary cards. Take a look at the current ETC Warrior lists for example. Players have forgone the pure version of deck in favour of an Enrage/ETC hybrid. This deck has a number of damage dealing combos, including Kor’kron Elite combos ranging from 12 to 28 damage, and techs in an ETC combo capable of dealing up to 42 damage under the right conditions. This shift is happening because the standard ETC control warrior had all its eggs in one basket, and disrupting ETC or playing round it by leaving your board sufficiently empty to deny enough rush minion attacks was extremely easy for slow decks to accomplish, and completely denied their only win condition. The result of the shift is a multi dimensional deck that can apply pressure in the early game and has tons of reach with a variety of late game combo plays, making it both significantly more difficult to get into a comfortable position to even drop Tickatus against in the first place, and significantly more difficult to disrupt simply by fucking a few random cards into the bin.
Better deck building and better play will show Tickatus up as the very reasonable card it is as the format develops.
Evolve shaman was (and still is, in a lesser manner) a super-tempo fast deck (similar to aggro, but still not it exactly, even though the damage output by turn 6 is similar), effcient against a wide range of decks and archetypes, Tickatus warlock is a control deck that fares well against other control/combo but poorly against aggro. Meta is and will always be leaning heavily on aggro, given how it's dictated by F2Players. So... do I need to state the obvious?
This is one of these cards you hope will be good, they seems so powerful when your opponent plays them (mostly because you play shitty deck), then you start playing them and they do not look so good anymore. Tickatus is powerful, but meta is too fast and will never slow down enough for it to be a serious contender. Yes, control does suffer, but control decks suffer from this meta full of aggro and otks anyway.
Still it's aggro who has best disruption - destroy mana crystal for zoo or your opponent has 2 less mana for DH.
If they nerf it to burn 3, you might as well not play it.
Or just drop it as a 6 mana 8/8 that burns 3 of your own cards...
Honestly I really despise this card from a design standpoint.
It's a bad card, especially in the current meta. I won't deny that it's not a very strong card. But it just feels so fucking bad to play against. I put my cards in my deck for my reason, seeing 16% or even 33% of them just straight up destroyed just feels bad to play against. I think that's the crux of the problem, it just is a 'feels bad' card to play against.
Lol as if an early 8/8 makes any difference
What i don't understand is how this bothers people who play control decks which would normally be straight up defeated by a traditional one shot combo deck. Like you actually sometimes get to play out something and steal a win.
Because if you play warrior you can actually tank the great majority of combo decks, but if they mill your own win condition you just straight up lose. *cries in Dead man's hand warrior main*
Yeah such an OP card, too bad its more OP than "Your hero power cost 0 for the rest of the game" card, deff needs a nerf.