Since having a bonus means being matched ONLY against opponents with a bonus too, what stops the players to "co-op" and start auto-conceding when being first to play (no coin)?
This would become the fastest way to ladder until you are out of bonus - then you play normally. Those who don't know about that would find out when they add some friends and they tell them. Don't you agree?
I don't think you'll be 100% matched with only exactly similar players, as queue times are (hopefully) taken into consideration. For example, if I reached Legend but can only play next season around the 20th, will there still be previous Legend players down in Bronze when you can win up to 22 stars with one streak?
Also, if one game can give you 4 to 8 ranks at once, why would anyone concede? First there's the clear problem of communication between various players (and queueing exactly into people who know AND would be willing to do this scheme) and second is that they won't take long to zip through lower ranks and eventually face only people based on rank without any restriction.
Players doing something because it's the fastest way is exactly systemic approach. No one wants to hang at bronze 10 playing long games vs opponents of equal MMR and still being close to 50% winrate when we can "co-op", be 50% winrate and reduce the length of games to 30s.
I don't think you'll be 100% matched with only exactly similar players, as queue times are (hopefully) taken into consideration. For example, if I reached Legend but can only play next season around the 20th, will there still be previous Legend players down in Bronze when you can win up to 22 stars with one streak?
Also, if one game can give you 4 to 8 ranks at once, why would anyone concede? First there's the clear problem of communication between various players (and queueing exactly into people who know AND would be willing to do this scheme) and second is that they won't take long to zip through lower ranks and eventually face only people based on rank without any restriction.
Now that I think about it, did they even say that the rank and stars are a factor? I only remember them saying it was MMR-based. Not that it matters though, gaming the system reliably wouldn't be feasible either way.
Players doing something because it's the fastest way is exactly systemic approach. No one wants to hang at bronze 10 playing long games vs opponents of equal MMR and still being close to 50% winrate when we can "co-op", be 50% winrate and reduce the length of games to 30s.
How the heck are you planning to reliably match up with people willing to do that with you though? You will desync from each other's queues after one or two concedes.
Q: Looking for some clarification on the MMR system. So I'm currently rank 5. Will I be matched up against Rank 5 players and above through my entire climb through Bronze and above? A: Until you run out of Star Multiplier. Then you'll be matched based on Rank. That way, if your skill is higher than your Rank, you'll move up.
How the heck are you planning to reliably match up with people willing to do that with you though?
We suppose people with learn about this with the time and eventually 90% of the players will know it and comply with it since it will save everyone time to reach the non-bonus ladder.
Even if 80% of the players do this, it would still be faster.
Eventually you will start doing it too when the person with a coin doesn't concede to you (since you haven't conceded being first to play) and you play a useless (ladder wise) 30min game.
Q: Looking for some clarification on the MMR system. So I'm currently rank 5. Will I be matched up against Rank 5 players and above through my entire climb through Bronze and above? A: Until you run out of Star Multiplier. Then you'll be matched based on Rank. That way, if your skill is higher than your Rank, you'll move up.
How the heck are you planning to reliably match up with people willing to do that with you though?
We suppose people with learn about this with the time and eventually 90% of the players will know it and comply with it since it will save everyone time to reach the non-bonus ladder.
if I reached Legend but can only play next season around the 20th, will there still be previous Legend players down in Bronze when you can win up to 22 stars with one streak?
That's another problem they have to solve somehow.
This is far too hypothetical to be considered realistically though. In your hypothetical scenario it may be faster, but if you get queued against people who you can't communicate with and have no tacit understanding with, suddenly the risk-reward situation shifts so that people would be disinclined to try this roundabout nonsense and instead be inclined to win with faster decks. I sincerely doubt that 80% of players would trust their time investment in the hands of random queuers, instead just trying to win 10 games with aggro decks and suddenly have achieved the same result with a lot less uncertainty.
I sincerely doubt that 80% of players would trust their time investment in the hands of random queuers
They won't, until streamers start doing it being part of a group that's doing it (the high legend players) and eventually the whole thing would snowball with enough people learning about it and incorporating it as a way to reach their non-bonus ladder rank fastest.
This pretty much shows how flawed the new ladder system is - with everyone starting from bottom and playing 50/50 MMR games relaying on the bonus to climb up to the non-bonus part of the ladder.
In the time it takes to successfully gamble with concedes in this hypothetical wish-thinking scenario, I'm pretty sure you could finish a quick game playing a fast deck and achieve the same or even better results. The difference being that fast wins are more fun and you have to rely on yourself to win rather than luck and chance in terms of your queue. WIth that in mind, I don't see this being a problem - and if it somehow became a problem, it would be hotfixed within a day. But hey, if you want to waste your time trying to convince people to go for this, go ahead, I will just play a fast deck and win instead.
Blizzard is introducing Overwatch Toxicity(tm) to the game in order to make as many people suffer as possible while opening the door for trolls et al. Thank you Blizzard for reproducing your ladder system that has been proven to be flawed several times.
Moreover, it is the money baby: When the MMR wants you to buy card-packs it will keep you in Bronze until have paid enough money to leave:
Blizzard is introducing Overwatch Toxicity(tm) to the game in order to make as many people suffer as possible while opening the door for trolls et al. Thank you Blizzard for reproducing your ladder system that has been proven to be flawed several times.
Moreover, it is the money baby: When the MMR wants you to buy card-packs it will keep you in Bronze until have paid enough money to leave:
When the new ladder hits, I will still play, knowing that the game I loved is gone..( honestly, it died three expansions ago ^^)
Roast me; tell me to git gud, tell me to put on my Aluminium hat and the Overwatch-Knighthood is yours baby
Wat. If you were correct, the old system would work better for that rather than this new one. Good luck using MMR to keep people in bronze when they can get out of it by winning twice in a row rofl
The big problem is climbing while having a bonus is not necessary to be in the ladder structure at all. We don't need to reach our previous month accomplishment each month from start with the bonus pool since this doesn't deliver anything meaningful to the ladder itself.
I wrote an year ago that the current ladder needs to change to a full MMR ladder. This means incorporating MMR decays and everyone starting from where they ended the last month with receiving a reward respective their final MMR rank.
The current system won't solve the biggest problem of the old one - the bottlenecks. And it would eventually get exploited since no one would care for the bonus pool games.
My suggestion to the HS dev team is to start re-thinking the newly to come ladder system from now.
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Since having a bonus means being matched ONLY against opponents with a bonus too, what stops the players to "co-op" and start auto-conceding when being first to play (no coin)?
This would become the fastest way to ladder until you are out of bonus - then you play normally. Those who don't know about that would find out when they add some friends and they tell them. Don't you agree?
That would be very rare...
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
It's still based on invisible MMR. In practice I think that is absolutely impossible to do in a systemic way.
I don't think you'll be 100% matched with only exactly similar players, as queue times are (hopefully) taken into consideration. For example, if I reached Legend but can only play next season around the 20th, will there still be previous Legend players down in Bronze when you can win up to 22 stars with one streak?
Also, if one game can give you 4 to 8 ranks at once, why would anyone concede? First there's the clear problem of communication between various players (and queueing exactly into people who know AND would be willing to do this scheme) and second is that they won't take long to zip through lower ranks and eventually face only people based on rank without any restriction.
Players doing something because it's the fastest way is exactly systemic approach. No one wants to hang at bronze 10 playing long games vs opponents of equal MMR and still being close to 50% winrate when we can "co-op", be 50% winrate and reduce the length of games to 30s.
Now that I think about it, did they even say that the rank and stars are a factor? I only remember them saying it was MMR-based. Not that it matters though, gaming the system reliably wouldn't be feasible either way.
How the heck are you planning to reliably match up with people willing to do that with you though? You will desync from each other's queues after one or two concedes.
From here.
Q: Looking for some clarification on the MMR system. So I'm currently rank 5. Will I be matched up against Rank 5 players and above through my entire climb through Bronze and above?
A: Until you run out of Star Multiplier. Then you'll be matched based on Rank. That way, if your skill is higher than your Rank, you'll move up.
We suppose people with learn about this with the time and eventually 90% of the players will know it and comply with it since it will save everyone time to reach the non-bonus ladder.
If that was the case, i would never concede and have opponents concede. Sounds good, doesnt work.
Even if 80% of the players do this, it would still be faster.
Eventually you will start doing it too when the person with a coin doesn't concede to you (since you haven't conceded being first to play) and you play a useless (ladder wise) 30min game.
This is far too hypothetical to be considered realistically though. In your hypothetical scenario it may be faster, but if you get queued against people who you can't communicate with and have no tacit understanding with, suddenly the risk-reward situation shifts so that people would be disinclined to try this roundabout nonsense and instead be inclined to win with faster decks. I sincerely doubt that 80% of players would trust their time investment in the hands of random queuers, instead just trying to win 10 games with aggro decks and suddenly have achieved the same result with a lot less uncertainty.
They won't, until streamers start doing it being part of a group that's doing it (the high legend players) and eventually the whole thing would snowball with enough people learning about it and incorporating it as a way to reach their non-bonus ladder rank fastest.
This pretty much shows how flawed the new ladder system is - with everyone starting from bottom and playing 50/50 MMR games relaying on the bonus to climb up to the non-bonus part of the ladder.
If it become an issue they will just address this in some way.
It's already an issue - the system is flawed and completely not logical before even released.
Your brain is flawed.
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
I would rather just play the game thank you
In the time it takes to successfully gamble with concedes in this hypothetical wish-thinking scenario, I'm pretty sure you could finish a quick game playing a fast deck and achieve the same or even better results. The difference being that fast wins are more fun and you have to rely on yourself to win rather than luck and chance in terms of your queue. WIth that in mind, I don't see this being a problem - and if it somehow became a problem, it would be hotfixed within a day. But hey, if you want to waste your time trying to convince people to go for this, go ahead, I will just play a fast deck and win instead.
One line as an explanation; Thank you Sir
OT:
Blizzard is introducing Overwatch Toxicity(tm) to the game in order to make as many people suffer as possible while opening the door for trolls et al. Thank you Blizzard for reproducing your ladder system that has been proven to be flawed several times.
Moreover, it is the money baby: When the MMR wants you to buy card-packs it will keep you in Bronze until have paid enough money to leave:
Here is one proof:
Match Making will make you buy stuff
When the new ladder hits, I will still play, knowing that the game I loved is gone..( honestly, it died three expansions ago ^^)
Roast me; tell me to git gud, tell me to put on my Aluminium hat and the Overwatch-Knighthood is yours baby
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Wat. If you were correct, the old system would work better for that rather than this new one. Good luck using MMR to keep people in bronze when they can get out of it by winning twice in a row rofl
The big problem is climbing while having a bonus is not necessary to be in the ladder structure at all. We don't need to reach our previous month accomplishment each month from start with the bonus pool since this doesn't deliver anything meaningful to the ladder itself.
I wrote an year ago that the current ladder needs to change to a full MMR ladder. This means incorporating MMR decays and everyone starting from where they ended the last month with receiving a reward respective their final MMR rank.
The current system won't solve the biggest problem of the old one - the bottlenecks. And it would eventually get exploited since no one would care for the bonus pool games.
My suggestion to the HS dev team is to start re-thinking the newly to come ladder system from now.