Why dont they "Blizzard" test this kind of stuff out first? It kinda ruins the fun and interactivty of the game1
Testing takes money, forethought, patience, and interest. Why bother doing any of that when you can just release some cards for free hype? They allowed Patches, Genn/Baku, they don't really care about balance.
IMO Evolve Shaman is more of a problem than the mages, 3 4 drops drops turn 3 with coin is the epitome of toxic gameplay.
I play Quest/Evo Shaman these days for ladder. Thus far I'm up to rank 5.
I ran in to another Quest/Evo shammy just now on the ladder who nailed the perfect starting turns curve, where I had just the opposite with a shit hand.
When I finally dealt with his Gruul, I was at 9hp, he was at 28hp.
Came back and won that shit.
Moral of the story is, it sucks to run in to a Mogu Fleshshaper and Mutate in the early game, but instead of rage quitting, just keep your wits about you and play smart. It's not insurmountable.
It's a very common thing I have heard streamers say about low rank players "People playing insanely greedy control decks who complain that aggro is OP and feel like a genius when they que Control Warrior."
check out some Quest Shaman's on HSreplay you can get away with 1-3 cards no one plays and still have a decent win rate, I hit Legend with a Magic Carpet in my Quest Shaman, but you have a TON of questionable cards in that Quest deck.
Also, You should have played Omega Mind. You totem'd three times against a deck you know is trying to kill you quickly. You needed play way more aggressively to defend yourself.
Note: a lot of players thing Questing Explorer is bad. These people is what is known as wrong. Questing Explorer has the one highest winrates in basically every Quest deck. With the exception of Druid cus they have Crystal Camal bae.
Same thing with you're other game. Though, your other Control Shaman is more sound as a deck I think cus it isn't trying to do too many things. That second deck is also super top heavy, and you played REALLY GREEDY. You had a 4-drop to throw on the board and you still play totems and wait.
If you make a deck that greedy you're going to lose to every deck that does powerful things and win early or midgame.
lol i knew somebody would try to deconstruct the deck i played for the example. lol its not about the deck i played, its about how easy u die to mage with that combo. i could have easilt any other deck, and the same thing happened. playing thw 2 drop early would take away my turn 10 full heal, if i lived that long. which i didnt. anyways, i appreciate your attempt, but u missed my point entirely.
Imagine complaining about mage but not about the threat being called shaman
imagine only playing the game once in awhile, and when u do, you run into a new mage burn combo 3 times in 4 games. Imagine not havbing time or care about making a post for every possible broken deck! lol I can only post about my experience, not yours.
Why dont they "Blizzard" test this kind of stuff out first? It kinda ruins the fun and interactivty of the game1
Testing takes money, forethought, patience, and interest. Why bother doing any of that when you can just release some cards for free hype? They allowed Patches, Genn/Baku, they don't really care about balance.
IMO Evolve Shaman is more of a problem than the mages, 3 4 drops drops turn 3 with coin is the epitome of toxic gameplay.
agreed, however, i can post about my own XP not yours.
Tempo Mage is obviously not "objectively overpowered" but it may be overpowered to you. What deck you play and your play style is absolutely tied to whether or not a deck is overpowered when you play against it. That's why my first question was "what in the world is playing that this deck feel overpowered." I hit Legend last month, not tryharding this month, but I'm still capped at 5 and swing from that and 2 so moderately good players and Flamewaker Mage has never felt very powerful to me. That does depend on my deck as well. Hunter with the secret package is almost a free win against Flamewaker Mage. Shaman can have a tougher time against them, but I'm pretty sure my WR is positive. Even an "objectively overpowered" deck like Combo Priest probably still has a match up or two where it is unfavored.
I guess my point is. If you are not looking at your play or your deck. You doomed to get beat over and over again by very beatable decks. That doesn't mean they are overpowered that is just a reflection of your unwillingness to change to suit the meta you currently experience.
Why not get better at the game rather than posting useless dumb posts like this or at least change the title to "I'm having trouble with cyclone mage"
Unless the general concensus from pros is that a deck is busted it probably isn't and you will have more success against it with better gameplay and making sure you have a solid deck yourself. Bear in mind some match ups are terrible so if that's the case no point whining about it. People never complain when they've got the favoured match up
It isn't. Tempo Mage is known to be high roll or bust and it is therefore not a good deck. When it works it works but its just a noob killer deck that sucks for climbing past rank 5 where people don't just sit there and let you draw double Flamewaker and Emperor and lethal them.
good to know. i havent been playing very much lately, so when i did start building deck with the new cards, i ran into this mage alot and felt like "great, another broken burn deck"
IMO, any deck that can kill u before turn 10 by just having certain cards in hand, is broken. It takes away from the game, two people battling it out for supremacy. It sux sitting there , not being able to do anything about it.
Anyways, it was just an observation, not a condemnation or a cry fest. I know well enough this game is rock paper scissors. Just havent played as much lately, and ran into that Flamewaker combo a bunch of times in a row.
In terms of playing Shaman against Mage, you should actually be favoured most of the time, although I did watch the first replay and I think deckbuilding could have been a major factor. I can see that you've built this as a control/fatigue variant of Quest Shaman, and its an interesting concept, but unfortunately it just isn't competitive compared to the standard Quest list, please see my explanation below.
You've got Plague of Murlocs, Walking Fountain and Earthquake stuck in your hand as well as an Omega Mind that wasn't played. These cards are not necessary in a Shaman deck running Corrupt The Waters. Heart of Vir'Naal does absolutely broken things with cheap cards and doesn't need a high curve, spell-based removal or tons of healing outside of Hero Power > Lifedrinkers to compete with slow decks in the late game (obviously Shudderwock is still played because it is bonkers but you don't need all the other high end stuff). Consider the implications of double battlecry - playing three or four 1-mana lackeys and getting six or eight battlecries is generally going to be superior value to playing one 7-mana Swampqueen Hagatha and getting two battlecries, or playing a Walking Fountain and getting no battlecries at all - the Quest is at its most powerful when thoroughly abused. Also in the case of this matchup, more early game cards means more pressure on the Mage to respond to your board so he can't hoard spells, more minion health on board to soak up Flamewaker damage when he does pop off, and faster Quest completion to hit your power spike.
Given his hand you may have lost anyway with a more standard list - it isn't always possible to win - but you have a much greater chance when you're able to present "must kill" threats like EVIL Totem, or threaten a wide board into Mogu Fleshshaper > Mutate, for a blisteringly fast 8 drop (likely presenting a serious threat and a lot of minion health) or a turn 4 Desert Hare into evolve for three 4-drops (again big pressure and likely upwards of 9 health on board). There's a lot of snowballing and butterfly effect in Hearthstone, if you allow a deck like Tempo Mage to sit back and draw cards, it is going to blow you up quite consistenly, but the tiniest bit of pressure to force their hand earlier than they'd like can have massive implications further down the line.
Regarding your deck itself, it would be wise to choose a direction (Quest or Control/Fatigue) and stick with it. Quest Shaman is hands down the better option for ladder and has a decent matchup into pretty much anything - happy to discuss decklists if you would like. Control/Fatigue Shaman is going to be significantly weaker as anything attempting to win by fatigue in this meta is going to have close to 0% matchups against most builds of Druid and almost anything capable of cycling N'Zoth a couple of times, while also not dealing well with combo decks like this Mage build. If your heart is set on this strategy however, again I'm happy to discuss deck building if you feel like you might benefit.
bro, the deck i used was just built that day, i build decks every day and test them out.The thing about dxeck building, is you have to start somewhere and go fr4om there. i have most of the cards and cant stand not trying out idead every day. I dont follow the masses and just copy and paste. i create and theorize and play. i get value from my collection. so here you are trying to give me pointers! lol my only point was how easily flame mage can burn you down so fast. dont get caught up in the deck i used. it was just for the example of what mage can do. thats it. plain and simple.
this isnt a deck building post, its about burn mage. lol It feels broken at times. Same as a few other decks atm.
i know full well how to beat or counter a deck. at the time of the original post, i had met 3 in 5 games, and they did that too me 2 of 3 times.
it felt not fun or interactive. thats all i want ed to say about it.
thx i guess for the effort, but save it for deck building forum. your like the 3rd guy who missed the point, and also read into it way more that neccessary. lol
bro, the deck i used was just built that day, i build decks every day and test them out.The thing about dxeck building, is you have to start somewhere and go fr4om there. i have most of the cards and cant stand not trying out idead every day. I dont follow the masses and just copy and paste. i create and theorize and play. i get value from my collection. so here you are trying to give me pointers! lol my only point was how easily flame mage can burn you down so fast. dont get caught up in the deck i used. it was just for the example of what mage can do. thats it. plain and simple.
this isnt a deck building post, its about burn mage. lol It feels broken at times. Same as a few other decks atm.
i know full well how to beat or counter a deck. at the time of the original post, i had met 3 in 5 games, and they did that too me 2 of 3 times.
it felt not fun or interactive. thats all i want ed to say about it.
thx i guess for the effort, but save it for deck building forum. your like the 3rd guy who missed the point, and also read into it way more that neccessary. lol
ill end with a funny, thx coach!
The best way to start deck building is by copying and pasting. And learning which cards are core as opposed to flex/tech. Then you play the deck, and observe what is working, what isn't, and making substitutions as needed.
Your approach winds up creating garbage like your Contol/Quest/Murloc Shaman. And then decks which aren't even top tier run all over you.
bro, the deck i used was just built that day, i build decks every day and test them out.The thing about dxeck building, is you have to start somewhere and go fr4om there. i have most of the cards and cant stand not trying out idead every day. I dont follow the masses and just copy and paste. i create and theorize and play. i get value from my collection. so here you are trying to give me pointers! lol my only point was how easily flame mage can burn you down so fast. dont get caught up in the deck i used. it was just for the example of what mage can do. thats it. plain and simple.
this isnt a deck building post, its about burn mage. lol It feels broken at times. Same as a few other decks atm.
i know full well how to beat or counter a deck. at the time of the original post, i had met 3 in 5 games, and they did that too me 2 of 3 times.
it felt not fun or interactive. thats all i want ed to say about it.
thx i guess for the effort, but save it for deck building forum. your like the 3rd guy who missed the point, and also read into it way more that neccessary. lol
ill end with a funny, thx coach!
The best way to start deck building is by copying and pasting. And learning which cards are core as opposed to flex/tech. Then you play the deck, and observe what is working, what isn't, and making substitutions as needed.
Your approach winds up creating garbage like your Contol/Quest/Murloc Shaman. And then decks which aren't even top tier run all over you.
im ok with that. I get value from my collection by trying out ideas and cards. to each there own. cheers.
The card that carries them is Counterspell. It's probably the most unfun card to play against in the game and nullifies the game even if you have an answer to his shenanigans
I play Quest/Evo Shaman these days for ladder. Thus far I'm up to rank 5.
I ran in to another Quest/Evo shammy just now on the ladder who nailed the perfect starting turns curve, where I had just the opposite with a shit hand.
He had Gruul on turn 4 on the board. I had a Healing Totem.
When I finally dealt with his Gruul, I was at 9hp, he was at 28hp.
Came back and won that shit.
Moral of the story is, it sucks to run in to a Mogu Fleshshaper and Mutate in the early game, but instead of rage quitting, just keep your wits about you and play smart. It's not insurmountable.
Imagine complaining about mage but not about the threat being called shaman
Your tears sustain us.
#TEAMSHAMMY
lol i knew somebody would try to deconstruct the deck i played for the example. lol its not about the deck i played, its about how easy u die to mage with that combo. i could have easilt any other deck, and the same thing happened. playing thw 2 drop early would take away my turn 10 full heal, if i lived that long. which i didnt. anyways, i appreciate your attempt, but u missed my point entirely.
imagine only playing the game once in awhile, and when u do, you run into a new mage burn combo 3 times in 4 games. Imagine not havbing time or care about making a post for every possible broken deck! lol I can only post about my experience, not yours.
agreed, however, i can post about my own XP not yours.
Tempo Mage is obviously not "objectively overpowered" but it may be overpowered to you. What deck you play and your play style is absolutely tied to whether or not a deck is overpowered when you play against it. That's why my first question was "what in the world is playing that this deck feel overpowered." I hit Legend last month, not tryharding this month, but I'm still capped at 5 and swing from that and 2 so moderately good players and Flamewaker Mage has never felt very powerful to me. That does depend on my deck as well. Hunter with the secret package is almost a free win against Flamewaker Mage. Shaman can have a tougher time against them, but I'm pretty sure my WR is positive. Even an "objectively overpowered" deck like Combo Priest probably still has a match up or two where it is unfavored.
I guess my point is. If you are not looking at your play or your deck. You doomed to get beat over and over again by very beatable decks. That doesn't mean they are overpowered that is just a reflection of your unwillingness to change to suit the meta you currently experience.
good to know. i havent been playing very much lately, so when i did start building deck with the new cards, i ran into this mage alot and felt like "great, another broken burn deck"
good to know its not that consistent.
thx.
IMO, any deck that can kill u before turn 10 by just having certain cards in hand, is broken. It takes away from the game, two people battling it out for supremacy. It sux sitting there , not being able to do anything about it.
Anyways, it was just an observation, not a condemnation or a cry fest. I know well enough this game is rock paper scissors. Just havent played as much lately, and ran into that Flamewaker combo a bunch of times in a row.
In terms of playing Shaman against Mage, you should actually be favoured most of the time, although I did watch the first replay and I think deckbuilding could have been a major factor. I can see that you've built this as a control/fatigue variant of Quest Shaman, and its an interesting concept, but unfortunately it just isn't competitive compared to the standard Quest list, please see my explanation below.
You've got Plague of Murlocs, Walking Fountain and Earthquake stuck in your hand as well as an Omega Mind that wasn't played. These cards are not necessary in a Shaman deck running Corrupt The Waters. Heart of Vir'Naal does absolutely broken things with cheap cards and doesn't need a high curve, spell-based removal or tons of healing outside of Hero Power > Lifedrinkers to compete with slow decks in the late game (obviously Shudderwock is still played because it is bonkers but you don't need all the other high end stuff). Consider the implications of double battlecry - playing three or four 1-mana lackeys and getting six or eight battlecries is generally going to be superior value to playing one 7-mana Swampqueen Hagatha and getting two battlecries, or playing a Walking Fountain and getting no battlecries at all - the Quest is at its most powerful when thoroughly abused. Also in the case of this matchup, more early game cards means more pressure on the Mage to respond to your board so he can't hoard spells, more minion health on board to soak up Flamewaker damage when he does pop off, and faster Quest completion to hit your power spike.
Given his hand you may have lost anyway with a more standard list - it isn't always possible to win - but you have a much greater chance when you're able to present "must kill" threats like EVIL Totem, or threaten a wide board into Mogu Fleshshaper > Mutate, for a blisteringly fast 8 drop (likely presenting a serious threat and a lot of minion health) or a turn 4 Desert Hare into evolve for three 4-drops (again big pressure and likely upwards of 9 health on board). There's a lot of snowballing and butterfly effect in Hearthstone, if you allow a deck like Tempo Mage to sit back and draw cards, it is going to blow you up quite consistenly, but the tiniest bit of pressure to force their hand earlier than they'd like can have massive implications further down the line.
Regarding your deck itself, it would be wise to choose a direction (Quest or Control/Fatigue) and stick with it. Quest Shaman is hands down the better option for ladder and has a decent matchup into pretty much anything - happy to discuss decklists if you would like. Control/Fatigue Shaman is going to be significantly weaker as anything attempting to win by fatigue in this meta is going to have close to 0% matchups against most builds of Druid and almost anything capable of cycling N'Zoth a couple of times, while also not dealing well with combo decks like this Mage build. If your heart is set on this strategy however, again I'm happy to discuss deck building if you feel like you might benefit.
bro, the deck i used was just built that day, i build decks every day and test them out.The thing about dxeck building, is you have to start somewhere and go fr4om there. i have most of the cards and cant stand not trying out idead every day. I dont follow the masses and just copy and paste. i create and theorize and play. i get value from my collection. so here you are trying to give me pointers! lol my only point was how easily flame mage can burn you down so fast. dont get caught up in the deck i used. it was just for the example of what mage can do. thats it. plain and simple.
this isnt a deck building post, its about burn mage. lol It feels broken at times. Same as a few other decks atm.
i know full well how to beat or counter a deck. at the time of the original post, i had met 3 in 5 games, and they did that too me 2 of 3 times.
it felt not fun or interactive. thats all i want ed to say about it.
thx i guess for the effort, but save it for deck building forum. your like the 3rd guy who missed the point, and also read into it way more that neccessary. lol
ill end with a funny, thx coach!
Then I don’t know what else to say. Tempo Mage is kinda weak, but that list happens to have no counterplay to it. Crack on and good luck.
The best way to start deck building is by copying and pasting. And learning which cards are core as opposed to flex/tech. Then you play the deck, and observe what is working, what isn't, and making substitutions as needed.
Your approach winds up creating garbage like your Contol/Quest/Murloc Shaman. And then decks which aren't even top tier run all over you.
im ok with that. I get value from my collection by trying out ideas and cards. to each there own. cheers.
cyclone mage is like tier 4, literally one of the worst decks in the meta right now
Temp mage seriously. What deck r u playing thar u can’t win against dumpster mage lol
Probably control warrior. Ive been playing this mage deck for shits and giggles and ive beaten control warrior everytime
dude is halloween.... they implemented everybody "nightmare" cards one more time for LIMITED time.
just enjoy, have fun, play some weirdos deck e enjoy life.
(i am not playing mage)
The card that carries them is Counterspell. It's probably the most unfun card to play against in the game and nullifies the game even if you have an answer to his shenanigans
Tempo Mage is indeed powerful but its still beatable. Playing Hunter and timing secrets just right worked for me.