I have both Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue sans the aforementioned cards, with enough dust to craft one legendary. Looking at the played WR is appears Liam is more of a meme inclusion in the Odd Pally deck, as only Baku has a worse played WR in the deck - but for some reason Liam decks have a 3% higher overall WR @ L-5. Myra's boosts the Odd Rogue WR ~4% from a mediocre 53.7% (L7 days) to tier 1 numbers. Often I've run out of cards with Odd Rogue from a controlling position, and that has cost me wins.
So while it's pretty obvious which is the better craft, I just thought I'd ask for some opinions from the community!
You're right - I've discovered that he probably only brings a bit of unpredictable fun to the deck without actually helping it. Though for some ridiculous reason I went 3-6 @ rank 13 with Odd Pally yesterday even though I've got a 61% WR over 100 games with it.
I am not saying to craft Liam but you do have to understand his place in the deck. Liam is like a hail Mary pass in football. Yes Liam has a low win rate after being played but the reason he is in the deck is that he takes games where you win maybe 5% of the time to maybe a 25% win chance.
For most games you plan on rushing your opponent and having them dead by turn 5-8. If you get past turn 10 against most other decks your going to lose almost every time but sometimes playing Liam will turn your 1 drops into big cards and allow you to out value a deck that you otherwise would have no chance in beating.
As an example I queued up against a odd warrior at rank 2 a couple of weeks ago and was losing hopelessly but manged to play Liam get an Archbishop Benedictus and managed to draw a Dr. Boom, Mad Genius before he did. I won a game that I really had no chance in.
Think of Liam as a very very poor mans Deathstalker Rexxar in the sense that it allows you to play an aggro deck and with a single card transform your deck into something that can compete in a more control oriented match up. Obviously Liam isn't nearly as good as Rexxar but you get the idea.
i mean while lian isnt essencial its a pretty high draw win rate card across the board being one of the highest drawn win rate card as you can play it on turn 5 if you draw it early, myras doesnt really have that good of a drawn win rate in odd rogue, you are better off drawing leeroy.
i own both and, while i never played much odd rogue, the stats i just looked at sugest that lian is the better craft since its actualy the five mana card you would rather draw in the deck
Think of Liam as a very very poor mans Deathstalker Rexxar in the sense that it allows you to play an aggro deck and with a single card transform your deck into something that can compete in a more control oriented match up. Obviously Liam isn't nearly as good as Rexxar but you get the idea.
That's a really great explanation, thank you! I have Liam in another region, but don't have the chance to play him as I don't have a readily made deck there I could put him into.
Personally I would choose Myra's. But if you want to maximise your win rate in the current meta then pick liam.
When you put it like that.....neither sound all that great :D
The region I have these decks in is a "secondary" region, so it's pretty much being used to learn different archetypes so I know how to play around them. So while I'd want to be super vigilant with my resources in my primary region, I can be a little more relaxed with how I spend my stuff in my secondary regions.
i mean while lian isnt essencial its a pretty high draw win rate card across the board being one of the highest drawn win rate card as you can play it on turn 5 if oyu draw it early, myras doesnt really have that good of a drawn win rate in odd rogue, you are better off drawing leeroy.
Thanks for your input! I've never comprehended the relevance of "Drawn WR". What does it matter what cards you have in your hand when you win a game? I must be misinterpreting it, because to me it's a completely redundant statistic. I only want to know what a card does for my WR when it's played, not when it sits in my hand and does nothing. My opp doesn't know it's in my hand, so what's the relevance?
i mean while lian isnt essencial its a pretty high draw win rate card across the board being one of the highest drawn win rate card as you can play it on turn 5 if oyu draw it early, myras doesnt really have that good of a drawn win rate in odd rogue, you are better off drawing leeroy.
Thanks for your input! I've never comprehended the relevance of "Drawn WR". What does it matter what cards you have in your hand when you win a game? I must be misinterpreting it, because to me it's a completely redundant statistic. I only want to know what a card does for my WR when it's played, not when it sits in my hand and does nothing. My opp doesn't know it's in my hand, so what's the relevance?
Draw win rate shows if a card is good in your deck in general because them you would have it in hand if you wanted to play that. If you look at leeroy it shows a way higher played win rate because when you draw it and isnt going to win you the game you almost never play it but has a lower drawn win rate because there are times when it is just a bad card. In general drawn win rate is good way to see if a card is good in your deck, because you could play it if you wanted , think about spellbraker oyu dont alway want to play it but having it when you want to is really good. In the case of both cards they are meant to make matchups you would lose most of time like 80% into something you can win if you need to so when oyu play it its in a losing situation while leeroy is play only when it make you win that turn and that makes the diference in rawn and played win rates.
Myra, for sure. It's a must in a T1 Odd Rogue and also a staple in Miracle rogue. While Miracle rogue is not a top tier deck, it's very fun to play. Odd Rogue... strong deck.
For OddPally you don't really need Liam. Just put a Witch Cauldron or two in that deck and you'll play it really competitive.
Myra, for sure. It's a must in a T1 Odd Rogue and also a staple in Miracle rogue. While Miracle rogue is not a top tier deck, it's very fun to play. Odd Rogue... strong deck.
For OddPally you don't really need Liam. Just put a Witch Cauldron or two in that deck and you'll play it really competitive.
It's interesting that Witch's Cauldron has hit the Odd Pally meta all of a sudden. It didn't seem to be part of the deck until the last week or so. Unfortunately, I have none of that card either LOL. Maybe Witch's Cauldron < Myra's?!
Miracle Rogue was one of the first decks I crafted, and I've got all the ingredients for it, so adding Myra's would make another viable deck for me, cheers.
Don't look at played winrate. Look at drawn winrate, and even that is not perfect by itself. Liam is a comeback tool, it is typically played in bad situations, and therefore it will inevitably have a low played winrate. It has a good drawn winrate, so it is a powerful addition to the archetype. That said, it is not mandatory, as cards such as Divine Favor and Witch's Cauldron can be used in a somewhat similar role.
Myra's Unstable Element, on the other hand, brings a completely unique refill to Odd Rogue and is perhaps the best card in the entire deck.
Therefore, it is an easy choice between the two: Myra's is much more important for its deck.
Therefore, it is an easy choice between the two: Myra's is much more important for its deck.
Thanks so much for your explanation. I just jagged the Watch & Learn quest and got a golden rare, so I'm all set for Myra's now. Though I'm really eyeing off that Witch's Cauldron that's crept into Odd Pally - don't have any of them :(
It's going to take me a little to accept the logic of the drawn vs played WR. I think the best way I can be happy with it is the explanation someone gave earlier where you have the *option* to play the card, therefore it's impacting on your win rate.
I have both Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue sans the aforementioned cards, with enough dust to craft one legendary. Looking at the played WR is appears Liam is more of a meme inclusion in the Odd Pally deck, as only Baku has a worse played WR in the deck - but for some reason Liam decks have a 3% higher overall WR @ L-5. Myra's boosts the Odd Rogue WR ~4% from a mediocre 53.7% (L7 days) to tier 1 numbers. Often I've run out of cards with Odd Rogue from a controlling position, and that has cost me wins.
So while it's pretty obvious which is the better craft, I just thought I'd ask for some opinions from the community!
You don't need Prince Liam in odd Paladin :)
You're right - I've discovered that he probably only brings a bit of unpredictable fun to the deck without actually helping it. Though for some ridiculous reason I went 3-6 @ rank 13 with Odd Pally yesterday even though I've got a 61% WR over 100 games with it.
Myra is more important in Odd Rogue than Liam in Odd Paladin.
I am not saying to craft Liam but you do have to understand his place in the deck. Liam is like a hail Mary pass in football. Yes Liam has a low win rate after being played but the reason he is in the deck is that he takes games where you win maybe 5% of the time to maybe a 25% win chance.
For most games you plan on rushing your opponent and having them dead by turn 5-8. If you get past turn 10 against most other decks your going to lose almost every time but sometimes playing Liam will turn your 1 drops into big cards and allow you to out value a deck that you otherwise would have no chance in beating.
As an example I queued up against a odd warrior at rank 2 a couple of weeks ago and was losing hopelessly but manged to play Liam get an Archbishop Benedictus and managed to draw a Dr. Boom, Mad Genius before he did. I won a game that I really had no chance in.
Think of Liam as a very very poor mans Deathstalker Rexxar in the sense that it allows you to play an aggro deck and with a single card transform your deck into something that can compete in a more control oriented match up. Obviously Liam isn't nearly as good as Rexxar but you get the idea.
Neither
i mean while lian isnt essencial its a pretty high draw win rate card across the board being one of the highest drawn win rate card as you can play it on turn 5 if you draw it early, myras doesnt really have that good of a drawn win rate in odd rogue, you are better off drawing leeroy.
i own both and, while i never played much odd rogue, the stats i just looked at sugest that lian is the better craft since its actualy the five mana card you would rather draw in the deck
those are the decks i looked at for the data:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/1DX5NZLf7lhAorzQAGkNAe/
https://hsreplay.net/decks/oqMsGOgnLsBiKqxq59UCic/
Myra's is a core card in a t2 deck.
Liam is the 29th or 30th card in a t1 deck.
Personally I would choose Myra's. But if you want to maximise your win rate in the current meta then pick liam.
That's a really great explanation, thank you! I have Liam in another region, but don't have the chance to play him as I don't have a readily made deck there I could put him into.
WWUD?
When you put it like that.....neither sound all that great :D
The region I have these decks in is a "secondary" region, so it's pretty much being used to learn different archetypes so I know how to play around them. So while I'd want to be super vigilant with my resources in my primary region, I can be a little more relaxed with how I spend my stuff in my secondary regions.
Thanks for your input! I've never comprehended the relevance of "Drawn WR". What does it matter what cards you have in your hand when you win a game? I must be misinterpreting it, because to me it's a completely redundant statistic. I only want to know what a card does for my WR when it's played, not when it sits in my hand and does nothing. My opp doesn't know it's in my hand, so what's the relevance?
Yeah, both seem pretty optional to me. I'd save dust for something more critical to other decks, or wait for the next expansion.
u dont need either but myra > liam neeson
Draw win rate shows if a card is good in your deck in general because them you would have it in hand if you wanted to play that. If you look at leeroy it shows a way higher played win rate because when you draw it and isnt going to win you the game you almost never play it but has a lower drawn win rate because there are times when it is just a bad card. In general drawn win rate is good way to see if a card is good in your deck, because you could play it if you wanted , think about spellbraker oyu dont alway want to play it but having it when you want to is really good. In the case of both cards they are meant to make matchups you would lose most of time like 80% into something you can win if you need to so when oyu play it its in a losing situation while leeroy is play only when it make you win that turn and that makes the diference in rawn and played win rates.
Myra, for sure. It's a must in a T1 Odd Rogue and also a staple in Miracle rogue. While Miracle rogue is not a top tier deck, it's very fun to play. Odd Rogue... strong deck.
For OddPally you don't really need Liam. Just put a Witch Cauldron or two in that deck and you'll play it really competitive.
It's interesting that Witch's Cauldron has hit the Odd Pally meta all of a sudden. It didn't seem to be part of the deck until the last week or so. Unfortunately, I have none of that card either LOL. Maybe Witch's Cauldron < Myra's?!
Miracle Rogue was one of the first decks I crafted, and I've got all the ingredients for it, so adding Myra's would make another viable deck for me, cheers.
Don't look at played winrate. Look at drawn winrate, and even that is not perfect by itself. Liam is a comeback tool, it is typically played in bad situations, and therefore it will inevitably have a low played winrate. It has a good drawn winrate, so it is a powerful addition to the archetype. That said, it is not mandatory, as cards such as Divine Favor and Witch's Cauldron can be used in a somewhat similar role.
Myra's Unstable Element, on the other hand, brings a completely unique refill to Odd Rogue and is perhaps the best card in the entire deck.
Therefore, it is an easy choice between the two: Myra's is much more important for its deck.
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Thanks so much for your explanation. I just jagged the Watch & Learn quest and got a golden rare, so I'm all set for Myra's now. Though I'm really eyeing off that Witch's Cauldron that's crept into Odd Pally - don't have any of them :(
It's going to take me a little to accept the logic of the drawn vs played WR. I think the best way I can be happy with it is the explanation someone gave earlier where you have the *option* to play the card, therefore it's impacting on your win rate.
How does this make any sense? Small sample size?
Myra's - 3rd lowest drawn WR
https://hsreplay.net/decks/tWwgzFEQ3CAebHYbuxL4xb/#rankRange=LEGEND_THROUGH_FIVE
Highest drawn WR and only card > 55%
https://hsreplay.net/decks/LDW9uHgAR8UA4vHm543oUd/#rankRange=LEGEND_THROUGH_FIVE