I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
Why do you like RNG?
How can you enjoy winning/losing just because you got lucky/unlucky? Card games are meant to be about strategy and skill, not rolling dice all over the place.
Card games can be whatever the designers want it to be. If they want a game based off of RNG values, so be it. If that doesn't appeal to you, go play Magic the Gathering, which still has a large portion of luck involved in it.
To be fair the idea of a card game is already probabilistic in nature. Do I feel any worse about a Rag with a 1 in 5 chance of killing me by hitting me in the face with 4 other minions on board or a 1 in 10 chance for a topdecked pyroblast from a freeze mage to kill me with 10 cards left in deck?
Both are "RNG" in the sense that the randomly generated number concerned with either the arrangement of the cards or the Ragnaros effect are "beating you" and in both cases you can say that the player in question positioned themselves for variance to give them a chance to win.
I don't understand why players choose to differentiate so heavily between the two sources of randomness. Being able to deal with the random results of, say a shredder drop, could be considered a skill for contingency planning. Poor draws are as frustrating as the occasional "bad juggle/bomber RNG" If you wanted 0 randomness in a card game you'd need to choose the order you get your cards entirely and have no RNG effects.
If narrow skill expression is the only part of a game you want why not play an FPS? Those games are very deterministic in many cases.
I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
Why do you like RNG?
How can you enjoy winning/losing just because you got lucky/unlucky? Card games are meant to be about strategy and skill, not rolling dice all over the place.
I agree on completely unaffectable, pure randomness. However, if you look at most cards, you'll see that you can skew the chances heavily into your favor before, which can require a lot more skill than just a simple "do x" effect. For example, a "deal 2 damage to an enemy" is straightforward to use. However, a "deal 3 damage to a random enemy minion" requires you to damage/kill of enemy minions in such a way that it has a high chance of hitting something worthwhile.
Winning HS tournaments with luck/rng as u call it is better chance then to win a lottery, so be greatfull to blizzard that they give u better chance to win money no? :p
I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
Why do you like RNG?
How can you enjoy winning/losing just because you got lucky/unlucky? Card games are meant to be about strategy and skill, not rolling dice all over the place.
You are correct that card games are meant to be about strategy and skill. Manipulating RNG to be in your favour is part of skill; that's why Ragnaros is still played so much, and even Ysera (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent). Keep in mind that lots of the new cards will never see constructed play. Some of the new cards will have very manipulate-able RNG, in particular that Goblin Lobber and that Blastmage.
The cards are good. Another thing people need to keep in mind is half the cards are already useless. 30% of 120+ new cards will be fairly useless, and the other 70% will be useful. EDIT: Obviously these are completely ballpark numbers. It is very likely that I am way off, and maybe overly optimistic haha.
People have complained about the game getting stagnant. Blizzard comes up with a very awesome looking expansion, and people complain about things being changed haha. Can't please everyone I guess.
I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
Why do you like RNG?
How can you enjoy winning/losing just because you got lucky/unlucky? Card games are meant to be about strategy and skill, not rolling dice all over the place.
Says YOU. You can like / dislike whatever you want, but don't try to tell me that just because some card games in the past don't have RNG, that every card game to come needs to follow the exact same footsteps.
I love the RNG they are bringing, and there's still going to be a considerable amount of skill involved to reach and stay legend. Just like how it is now, we'll still see the same top players, which means skill is still > RNG in HS.
Really surprised and disappointed to see people are OK with this, but opinions are opinions I suppose.
Obviously card games are inherently RNG-based, but that's an unavoidable aspect of the genre. However, flooding the game with multiple RNG cards is completely avoidable. Why add RNG to a game that's already saturated with it?
I think there's a balanced to be achieved. Obviously we don't want a game where you drop Ragnaros and win 100% of the time, nor do we want a card that says "battlecry: next turn you have 40% chance of dealing 1000 damage to opponent hero". So it's up to the game developers to determine where the line is.
Mathematically speaking, RNG prolongs the game. The higher the variance, the higher amount of games you need to achieve the expected result. More games, more play time.
The 1/4 of the set was intentionally thematically consistent. I'm sure there are many great non-RNG cards we have no idea about. This observation concerning the expansion is very premature. Also, Hearthstone's RNG is automated, so it can get away with a lot more lunacy than a traditional TCG. There will always be a vocal minority, but many people actually enjoy this aspect of the game. RNG is what leads to some of the greatest Hearthstone stories, be they crushing defeats or stunningly unlikely recoveries. There will always be an undercurrent of skill as well, which is why there are elite players who essentially play the same decks as everybody else.
I'll admit I was skeeved by the GvG preview at first, as well as that brainless trailer jingle, but the RNG itself is intentionally overblown at this juncture. Let's save proper critiques for the set as a whole.
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Wielder of Botsbane, The Slayer of That Which Has No Life.
Competitive players are only 5% of the total playerbase the fact that you are part of that 5% doesn't entitle you to anything, the other 95% might enjoy rng while the competitive scene may never seethose cards, is like the casse of snipe hunter in yu gi oh, you never see that card high in the ladder of devpro not or dueling network, hell you don't even see the card in the middle of the ladder, but players that paly traditional or "casual" love to play it, is a nice breath from all themeta decks and cards exist to be played wether a minority of a playerbase likes it or not.
Obviously card games are inherently RNG-based, but that's an unavoidable aspect of the genre. However, flooding the game with multiple RNG cards is completely avoidable. Why add RNG to a game that's already saturated with it?
Bear in mind that when you compare Hearthstone to the monster of the genre, Magic: The Gathering, they have already removed an enormous slice of randomness by using a guaranteed +1 mana crystal per turn resource system, as opposed to one that relied on drawing land cards.
I seem to recall that one of the Hearthstone designers stated that the reason for the RNG cards was to counterbalance this removal - that without them, the game wasn't random enough, which made it too stale and predictable.
Personally, I think it's in a pretty good place now, and doesn't need the randomness increased. I don't think we can say for sure that GvG will increase the randomness though, it all depends on whether the high-RNG cards actually find their way into frequent play. I certainly think it's way too early for hysterical statements like "apparently Blizzard wants competitive Hearthstone to be a complete joke".
Honestly, I don't think this thread is entirely fair. I'm actually not even a fan of Blizzard (despite me loving this game), but to be honest, I don't fault them. There are plenty of players, like myself, who like RNG. Personally, I would argue the RNG fits the expansion theme of crazy bombs and machines pretty well. But that's not why I think you aren't being entirely fair. Well, only a smidgen.
Biases aside, I do feel like Blizzard has addressed at least some of the things people want. People wanted more categories of cards with synergies (like beasts). So they added mechs. It's a start. People like me suggested the need for more cards that increase or decrease the cost of things. They add Mechwarper, which also synergizes with the mechs. People were complaining about aggro. They add things like Explosive Sheep. A neutral card every class will be able to use against aggro. People said they wanted more viable pirates. There appears to be a new Pirate card for the rouge. Mill decks have been seeing a rise, but are currently restricted by card selection. So they added Clockwork Giant and Goblin Sapper for mill decks. I have yet to see any actual additional way to give your opponent more card draw. At least not directly. But we haven't seen the whole expansion, either. People wanted weapons for more classes. So they created a card (Blingtron 3000) that can sort of do it without directly giving the classes weapons, and thus keeping the theme and abilities of the classes in line. People are upset about miracle rouge not being viable. So they created Mimiron's Head and V-07-TR-0N to introduce stupid burst back into the game. Burst that has not been seen since the Leeroy nerf or arguably ever, but with a turn to potentially counter it.
Ok, I'm stretching it with that last one. But the point is they are actually addressing a lot of things many people wanted with this expansion. It's not just about RNG.
I think some people fail to realize that there is such thing as good rng. First of all rng differentiates this game from mtg (which i believe has even more frustrating rng solely due to the land mechanic) and other games like yugioh because they allow the casual player to have fun. However for the tryhard it also adds a whole other layer of complexity to the game. Now we aren't just thinking of potential plays the opponent will make, we are now anticipating and planning different moves based on a bunch of different outcomes from just a few cards. It takes real skill to be able to adapt to a situation and act accordingly even when facing the unexpected while on a timer. For example in the world championships match between Tiddler and Firebat, Firebat's expert decisions for playing around rng cards such as Sylvanas are what I believe won him the game.
Then again there is also bad rng such as 1/8 rag shots for the win where both players really have no control over the outcome. Rng is fun and good for the competitive scene when it still allows the players enough control whatever the outcome of the rng is.
Lastly, rng is a very interesting method for balancing cards. Remember when hunters all ran deadly shot? It's not a bad card despite the rng that comes with the card. Instead rng is what balances the card. Think of how utterly broken cards like knife juggler would be without rng.
I believe that when the expansion hits, card like ogre warmaul at least deserve a chance
Though many of the cards are RNG, not all of them all. So instead of complaining about it, instead just don't use the cards that you don't like. I expect most of the top decks that come from this expansion to not have that much RNG anyway. So you'll be fine competing in ladder or tournaments. Quit complaining and be happy with what they give you
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Source = http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/679-hearthstone-developer-interview-with-mike-donais
Hearthstone could be such an incredible game, but when I read this I just about completely lost hope.
1. Players complain about too much RNG.
2. Blizzard essentially says "We don't care if you don't like RNG".
3. Blizzard creates new expansion with a heavy emphasis on RNG.
4. The higher ups at Blizzard pat themselves on the back and hand out promotions.
I like RNG. It improves my personal gameplay experience. They are releasing an expansion with considerable amounts of RNG in it. This makes me very happy. If I could, I would pat them on the back, and hand out promotions to all of them.
Why do you like RNG?
How can you enjoy winning/losing just because you got lucky/unlucky? Card games are meant to be about strategy and skill, not rolling dice all over the place.
Card games can be whatever the designers want it to be. If they want a game based off of RNG values, so be it. If that doesn't appeal to you, go play Magic the Gathering, which still has a large portion of luck involved in it.
To be fair the idea of a card game is already probabilistic in nature. Do I feel any worse about a Rag with a 1 in 5 chance of killing me by hitting me in the face with 4 other minions on board or a 1 in 10 chance for a topdecked pyroblast from a freeze mage to kill me with 10 cards left in deck?
Both are "RNG" in the sense that the randomly generated number concerned with either the arrangement of the cards or the Ragnaros effect are "beating you" and in both cases you can say that the player in question positioned themselves for variance to give them a chance to win.
I don't understand why players choose to differentiate so heavily between the two sources of randomness. Being able to deal with the random results of, say a shredder drop, could be considered a skill for contingency planning. Poor draws are as frustrating as the occasional "bad juggle/bomber RNG" If you wanted 0 randomness in a card game you'd need to choose the order you get your cards entirely and have no RNG effects.
If narrow skill expression is the only part of a game you want why not play an FPS? Those games are very deterministic in many cases.
I agree on completely unaffectable, pure randomness. However, if you look at most cards, you'll see that you can skew the chances heavily into your favor before, which can require a lot more skill than just a simple "do x" effect. For example, a "deal 2 damage to an enemy" is straightforward to use. However, a "deal 3 damage to a random enemy minion" requires you to damage/kill of enemy minions in such a way that it has a high chance of hitting something worthwhile.
Winning HS tournaments with luck/rng as u call it is better chance then to win a lottery, so be greatfull to blizzard that they give u better chance to win money no? :p
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You are correct that card games are meant to be about strategy and skill. Manipulating RNG to be in your favour is part of skill; that's why Ragnaros is still played so much, and even Ysera (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent). Keep in mind that lots of the new cards will never see constructed play. Some of the new cards will have very manipulate-able RNG, in particular that Goblin Lobber and that Blastmage.
The cards are good. Another thing people need to keep in mind is half the cards are already useless. 30% of 120+ new cards will be fairly useless, and the other 70% will be useful. EDIT: Obviously these are completely ballpark numbers. It is very likely that I am way off, and maybe overly optimistic haha.
People have complained about the game getting stagnant. Blizzard comes up with a very awesome looking expansion, and people complain about things being changed haha. Can't please everyone I guess.
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Says YOU. You can like / dislike whatever you want, but don't try to tell me that just because some card games in the past don't have RNG, that every card game to come needs to follow the exact same footsteps.
I love the RNG they are bringing, and there's still going to be a considerable amount of skill involved to reach and stay legend. Just like how it is now, we'll still see the same top players, which means skill is still > RNG in HS.
Really surprised and disappointed to see people are OK with this, but opinions are opinions I suppose.
Obviously card games are inherently RNG-based, but that's an unavoidable aspect of the genre. However, flooding the game with multiple RNG cards is completely avoidable. Why add RNG to a game that's already saturated with it?
I think there's a balanced to be achieved. Obviously we don't want a game where you drop Ragnaros and win 100% of the time, nor do we want a card that says "battlecry: next turn you have 40% chance of dealing 1000 damage to opponent hero". So it's up to the game developers to determine where the line is.
Mathematically speaking, RNG prolongs the game. The higher the variance, the higher amount of games you need to achieve the expected result. More games, more play time.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
The 1/4 of the set was intentionally thematically consistent. I'm sure there are many great non-RNG cards we have no idea about. This observation concerning the expansion is very premature. Also, Hearthstone's RNG is automated, so it can get away with a lot more lunacy than a traditional TCG. There will always be a vocal minority, but many people actually enjoy this aspect of the game. RNG is what leads to some of the greatest Hearthstone stories, be they crushing defeats or stunningly unlikely recoveries. There will always be an undercurrent of skill as well, which is why there are elite players who essentially play the same decks as everybody else.
I'll admit I was skeeved by the GvG preview at first, as well as that brainless trailer jingle, but the RNG itself is intentionally overblown at this juncture. Let's save proper critiques for the set as a whole.
Wielder of Botsbane, The Slayer of That Which Has No Life.
Competitive players are only 5% of the total playerbase the fact that you are part of that 5% doesn't entitle you to anything, the other 95% might enjoy rng while the competitive scene may never seethose cards, is like the casse of snipe hunter in yu gi oh, you never see that card high in the ladder of devpro not or dueling network, hell you don't even see the card in the middle of the ladder, but players that paly traditional or "casual" love to play it, is a nice breath from all themeta decks and cards exist to be played wether a minority of a playerbase likes it or not.
Bear in mind that when you compare Hearthstone to the monster of the genre, Magic: The Gathering, they have already removed an enormous slice of randomness by using a guaranteed +1 mana crystal per turn resource system, as opposed to one that relied on drawing land cards.
I seem to recall that one of the Hearthstone designers stated that the reason for the RNG cards was to counterbalance this removal - that without them, the game wasn't random enough, which made it too stale and predictable.
Personally, I think it's in a pretty good place now, and doesn't need the randomness increased. I don't think we can say for sure that GvG will increase the randomness though, it all depends on whether the high-RNG cards actually find their way into frequent play. I certainly think it's way too early for hysterical statements like "apparently Blizzard wants competitive Hearthstone to be a complete joke".
Agree with OP
Honestly, I don't think this thread is entirely fair. I'm actually not even a fan of Blizzard (despite me loving this game), but to be honest, I don't fault them. There are plenty of players, like myself, who like RNG. Personally, I would argue the RNG fits the expansion theme of crazy bombs and machines pretty well. But that's not why I think you aren't being entirely fair. Well, only a smidgen.
Biases aside, I do feel like Blizzard has addressed at least some of the things people want. People wanted more categories of cards with synergies (like beasts). So they added mechs. It's a start. People like me suggested the need for more cards that increase or decrease the cost of things. They add Mechwarper, which also synergizes with the mechs. People were complaining about aggro. They add things like Explosive Sheep. A neutral card every class will be able to use against aggro. People said they wanted more viable pirates. There appears to be a new Pirate card for the rouge. Mill decks have been seeing a rise, but are currently restricted by card selection. So they added Clockwork Giant and Goblin Sapper for mill decks. I have yet to see any actual additional way to give your opponent more card draw. At least not directly. But we haven't seen the whole expansion, either. People wanted weapons for more classes. So they created a card (Blingtron 3000) that can sort of do it without directly giving the classes weapons, and thus keeping the theme and abilities of the classes in line. People are upset about miracle rouge not being viable. So they created Mimiron's Head and V-07-TR-0N to introduce stupid burst back into the game. Burst that has not been seen since the Leeroy nerf or arguably ever, but with a turn to potentially counter it.
Ok, I'm stretching it with that last one. But the point is they are actually addressing a lot of things many people wanted with this expansion. It's not just about RNG.
I love RNG. I play the game almost solely by RNG plays. It's the most fun way to play, since spontaneity is a bit part of fun.
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!
I think some people fail to realize that there is such thing as good rng. First of all rng differentiates this game from mtg (which i believe has even more frustrating rng solely due to the land mechanic) and other games like yugioh because they allow the casual player to have fun. However for the tryhard it also adds a whole other layer of complexity to the game. Now we aren't just thinking of potential plays the opponent will make, we are now anticipating and planning different moves based on a bunch of different outcomes from just a few cards. It takes real skill to be able to adapt to a situation and act accordingly even when facing the unexpected while on a timer. For example in the world championships match between Tiddler and Firebat, Firebat's expert decisions for playing around rng cards such as Sylvanas are what I believe won him the game.
Then again there is also bad rng such as 1/8 rag shots for the win where both players really have no control over the outcome. Rng is fun and good for the competitive scene when it still allows the players enough control whatever the outcome of the rng is.
Lastly, rng is a very interesting method for balancing cards. Remember when hunters all ran deadly shot? It's not a bad card despite the rng that comes with the card. Instead rng is what balances the card. Think of how utterly broken cards like knife juggler would be without rng.
I believe that when the expansion hits, card like ogre warmaul at least deserve a chance
you didnt make any point at all
you just said:
1) person makes game however they want
2) people give them tons of money and enjoy game
Though many of the cards are RNG, not all of them all. So instead of complaining about it, instead just don't use the cards that you don't like. I expect most of the top decks that come from this expansion to not have that much RNG anyway. So you'll be fine competing in ladder or tournaments. Quit complaining and be happy with what they give you