Punishing no. And the expense is relative. I DO disagree with two decsions; -
Killing off the adventures
Delaying Witchwood single player
Loss of adventures leads to less value for money and a lot more expense. Not having Monster Hunt available means no refuge for those that want to get away from bad ladder experiences.
nah, I play mostly control/combo decks, just had some bad luck with drawing answers against Baku Paladin (like 60% of what I encountered) and games ended rather quick. the two losses that I enjoyed today were against a Aviana/Kun/Toggwaggle/Azalina deck, which was awesome to see.
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
No. Losing is a part of competitive games. I respect those who do leave though. More power to them if they find another game they enjoy. They are certainly more admirable than those who sit around Hearthstone websites complaining all day.
Punishing no. And the expense is relative. I DO disagree with two decsions; -
Killing off the adventures
Delaying Witchwood single player
Loss of adventures leads to less value for money and a lot more expense. Not having Monster Hunt available means no refuge for those that want to get away from bad ladder experiences.
I agree on the adventure part, I thought the adventures did a great job at showcasing Blizzard's ability, their effort on detail and the universe they've created. now it's just "hey, here's a dump of cards you can't afford, some of them you actually know and love from WOW. good on you, mate." I don't think it plays to their strength at all.
however, I think the delay on the Monster Hunt was actually good, because the meta in theory should be the craziest in the first 2 weeks and then start settling down. then you would in theory be like "that was great and all, but things are settled now so lemme take a break" and enjoy some PVE. I dig it! too bad that Paladin and Warlock simply survived the rotation and gotten stronger with it. :v
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
I feel the pain here. I tend to win a ton of matches in a row, and then lose everything I earned and more every match after. Typically its just bad RNG, which is completely frustrating.
I don't believe Blizzard is trying to retain players in the long term. The main issues with PvP is the stark difference in win rate compared to 'feel-good' PvE. It is a daunting task to get players to accept 50% win rate as successful. In order to accommodate this faction, they use big 'swingy' cards like Spiteful Summoner and Call to Arms. The player gets caught up in the thrill of victory and overlooks the fact that their win had nothing to do with their skill at the game. The ego extends this device to its logical conclusion - I am a good player because of what cards I put in my deck, and not because of how I played the game. This is exactly where Blizzard wants people to go - the game is about obtaining cards, and not about gameplay. Look at the enthusiasm for Shudderwock as further evidence. The deck is tier 4 garbage, but people can't resist playing it - bad players get a sort of sugar high from the occasional lopsided win it provides. The unfortunate reality is that Blizzard has no interest in balance or fair play because these things run counter to the true purpose of Hearthstone, which is to serve as a profit vehicle for the parent corporation. It isn't that they can't balance and diversify, Team 5 certainly has the expertise to do so; they choose not to because such a game would undoubtedly be far less profitable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I don't believe Blizzard is trying to retain players in the long term. The main issues with PvP is the stark difference in win rate compared to 'feel-good' PvE. It is a daunting task to get players to accept 50% win rate as successful. In order to accommodate this faction, they use big 'swingy' cards like Spiteful Summoner and Call to Arms. The player gets caught up in the thrill of victory and overlooks the fact that their win had nothing to do with their skill at the game. The ego extends this device to its logical conclusion - I am a good player because of what cards I put in my deck, and not because of how I played the game. This is exactly where Blizzard wants people to go - the game is about obtaining cards, and not about gameplay. Look at the enthusiasm for Shudderwock as further evidence. The deck is tier 4 garbage, but people can't resist playing it - bad players get a sort of sugar high from the occasional lopsided win it provides. The unfortunate reality is that Blizzard has no interest in balance or fair play because these things run counter to the true purpose of Hearthstone, which is to serve as a profit vehicle for the parent corporation. It isn't that they can't balance and diversify, Team 5 certainly has the expertise to do so; they choose not to because such a game would undoubtedly be far less profitable.
Pretty much exactly what I think. There are some games on the market whose selling point is being competitive, or at least good at the competitive level. Hearthstone is not one of them.
I skimmed the post. You honestly just sound salty dude. If you're hitting Legend but still have a problem with losing a lot, then one of two issues is occurring. Either you're netdecking and piloting an OP deck, in which case the issue is you; or you're a great player but piloting something like Grumblewock or some gimmick shit.
Most players don't get anywhere near Legend, so that's irrelevant. Legend was less than 1% of the playerbase before, and since they changed it to 5 stars at all ranks I'm sure its even less now.
But if you think losing is "expensive" and "a waste of time" why are you even playing a competitive game? You can move to casual, you can git gud, or you can build a better deck. Not Blizzard's responsibility to drag you out of scrubtier.
I do think their casual MMR needs a lot of work though.
I think it would be nice to get something for losing. Maybe 10 gold for every 3 wins and then maybe 5 gold for every 3 losses. And blizzard should be able to spot if a player keeps quitting matches just to get gold, not sure it would even be worth someone's time to try that though.
Also, blizzard should be able to create a mode where it recognizes the deck being used and if it's too similar to a meta deck (no matter the tier) then it's restricted.
Honestly, IMO, for Hearthstone being a digital card game, there is not a whole lot of things implemented that could be. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a lot of potential that is not being tapped into.
still think that they should reward you because you play their game, not because you win. Just give one point after you click "end turn" ten times, after 3 points, you get the same 10 gold. that's it. you can play whatever you want.
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
Close to never. I like trying out new stuff if I have the cards for it, and when something has a decent winrate, I get accustomed to it. So, when something is working, I get comfortable playing it. The worse experiences really come from decks that you want to make work but just cant. I don't enjoy losing 9 out of 10 games because I have a quest like "play 10 cards that cost 8 or more", but I obviously don't play these decks for their winrate.
Should mention though, that I don't really like to stick with one deck. It just gets stale when you play the same deck for 20 games in a row.
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
I have rarely ever crafted anything, period. Three times I crafted cards for specific decks: A Knife Juggler for Zoolock in WOG, two Duskbreaker for Dragon Priest after I got 0 in over 120 packs, and Velen's Chosen for a Wild OTK Priest. The only legendary I ever crafted was Sunkeeper Tarim, and it wasn't even for a specific deck. I don't remember when exactly it was, probably late into Journey to Un'goro, and I tried getting a legendary from MSG. And then I opened Mayor Noggenfogger, and out of frustration, I got myself Tarim, because I wanted just one playable legendary for a change. I don't even play any of the good Paladin decks now. I never bothered crafting another Call to Arms, or Genn or Baku.
Aside from that, I crafted very few epics and rares here and there, less than 2000 dust all combined. For the most part, I stick with the cards I open from packs while hoarding dust, always telling myself that I wait for a deck I actually want to craft, and that day never comes.
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
The friend list is largely inactive. Most people I ever added have dropped the game, and I do not really talk to the few remaining. The only people on my friends list I actually am in contact with are my brother and a friend I know personally. Nowadays, I reject all friend requests, since it's either an asshole who complains that he lost, or an asshole who wants to rub it in that he won. Don't know why, but half the people I play against are assholes, who will rope when they fall behind and emote when they are winning. And I don't send friend requests, because I have not much interest in just another guy who plays Cubelock, Aggro Paladin etc.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?/ 5) how do you deal with losing streaks?
Depends on the game. Very rarely, it happens that I feel like the outcome of the game is entirely open and every decision matters. In these cases, I don't mind losing that much, just because I enjoy playing. In most cases, however, I just think "whatever" when I lost once or twice, because I'm just grinding and my opponent is likely doing the same. You know the decks, you know what you have to do, and the winner is largely determined by the matchup and who draws what.
Losing every other game for a while without making progress can get annoying. When I lost 4, 5 or more games in a row I start thinking "this can't be happening" and get frustrated. And when these losses happen in the most spectacular way imaginable, I can actually lose myself, especially when stakes are high like in Arena or one win before reaching a higher rank. A Hunter surviving and winning because his Wandering Monster happens to be a Drakkari Defender is pure pain. Losing as soon as turn 1 because your hand cannot deal with the constantly increasing pressure of your opponent is also no fun.
Sometimes, I really get desperate because I can't see what I could do differently. Many losses seem inevitable. Sure, it's part of the game that you cannot win every match. That's fine with me, but losing streaks are very difficult to handle for me. If it's too much, I have to drop the game for a little while.
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
As I said, I never really send out friend requests. But I am certainly even less interested in what a player has to say if his deck is an exact copy of what one of my last few opponents was playing.
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
I think that the reward system as a whole needs to be redesigned. When I have four or more sets to buy from (actually much more, because I think Wild sets should be purchasable as well), and the system barely allows me to buy one pack per day (grinding required), it's not in a good spot. I have elaborated on this a few times already, but many people on Hearthpwn take it as a personal offense when you suggest anything in that direction, so I have given up on that.
I think, Gwent does many things right in that regard. Splitting games into rounds feels more strategic and allows even bad players to have little successes. The daily rewards are good enough to keep you in the game, and they added actual quests on top of that. Gwents "dust" is also slightly better handled, but the game has other problems, like squeezing all new cards into the same cardpool for your kegs, and having more rares, epics and legendaries than commons, but largely the same droprates as HS.
well, that's it for me. I think the enjoyment of the game is greatly hampered by both the costs and the fact that losing in this game can be very discouraging to the player, especially those that wish to play off-beat decks or are experimenting.
I 100% agree with you, but I don't think this will change anytime soon.
People who like to experiment, play fun decks, and -- especially -- people who can't handle a losing streak need to understand that they belong in Casual, not Ranked. They also need to learn that a 50 percent win rate is the expectation for everyone, across the board.
If you don't enjoy the game enough to play it in Casual mode, you probably shouldn't be playing at all.
If you think you should be able to succeed in Ranked with experimental garbage, I don't know what to tell you.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
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Punishing no. And the expense is relative. I DO disagree with two decsions; -
Loss of adventures leads to less value for money and a lot more expense. Not having Monster Hunt available means no refuge for those that want to get away from bad ladder experiences.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
nah, I play mostly control/combo decks, just had some bad luck with drawing answers against Baku Paladin (like 60% of what I encountered) and games ended rather quick. the two losses that I enjoyed today were against a Aviana/Kun/Toggwaggle/Azalina deck, which was awesome to see.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
No. Losing is a part of competitive games. I respect those who do leave though. More power to them if they find another game they enjoy. They are certainly more admirable than those who sit around Hearthstone websites complaining all day.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
I feel the pain here. I tend to win a ton of matches in a row, and then lose everything I earned and more every match after. Typically its just bad RNG, which is completely frustrating.
I don't believe Blizzard is trying to retain players in the long term. The main issues with PvP is the stark difference in win rate compared to 'feel-good' PvE. It is a daunting task to get players to accept 50% win rate as successful. In order to accommodate this faction, they use big 'swingy' cards like Spiteful Summoner and Call to Arms. The player gets caught up in the thrill of victory and overlooks the fact that their win had nothing to do with their skill at the game. The ego extends this device to its logical conclusion - I am a good player because of what cards I put in my deck, and not because of how I played the game. This is exactly where Blizzard wants people to go - the game is about obtaining cards, and not about gameplay. Look at the enthusiasm for Shudderwock as further evidence. The deck is tier 4 garbage, but people can't resist playing it - bad players get a sort of sugar high from the occasional lopsided win it provides. The unfortunate reality is that Blizzard has no interest in balance or fair play because these things run counter to the true purpose of Hearthstone, which is to serve as a profit vehicle for the parent corporation. It isn't that they can't balance and diversify, Team 5 certainly has the expertise to do so; they choose not to because such a game would undoubtedly be far less profitable.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
@OP: TL;DR.
I skimmed the post. You honestly just sound salty dude. If you're hitting Legend but still have a problem with losing a lot, then one of two issues is occurring. Either you're netdecking and piloting an OP deck, in which case the issue is you; or you're a great player but piloting something like Grumblewock or some gimmick shit.
Most players don't get anywhere near Legend, so that's irrelevant. Legend was less than 1% of the playerbase before, and since they changed it to 5 stars at all ranks I'm sure its even less now.
But if you think losing is "expensive" and "a waste of time" why are you even playing a competitive game? You can move to casual, you can git gud, or you can build a better deck. Not Blizzard's responsibility to drag you out of scrubtier.
I do think their casual MMR needs a lot of work though.
I think it would be nice to get something for losing. Maybe 10 gold for every 3 wins and then maybe 5 gold for every 3 losses. And blizzard should be able to spot if a player keeps quitting matches just to get gold, not sure it would even be worth someone's time to try that though.
Also, blizzard should be able to create a mode where it recognizes the deck being used and if it's too similar to a meta deck (no matter the tier) then it's restricted.
Honestly, IMO, for Hearthstone being a digital card game, there is not a whole lot of things implemented that could be. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a lot of potential that is not being tapped into.
still think that they should reward you because you play their game, not because you win. Just give one point after you click "end turn" ten times, after 3 points, you get the same 10 gold. that's it. you can play whatever you want.
Interesting questions, hoenstly.
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
Close to never. I like trying out new stuff if I have the cards for it, and when something has a decent winrate, I get accustomed to it. So, when something is working, I get comfortable playing it. The worse experiences really come from decks that you want to make work but just cant. I don't enjoy losing 9 out of 10 games because I have a quest like "play 10 cards that cost 8 or more", but I obviously don't play these decks for their winrate.
Should mention though, that I don't really like to stick with one deck. It just gets stale when you play the same deck for 20 games in a row.
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
I have rarely ever crafted anything, period. Three times I crafted cards for specific decks: A Knife Juggler for Zoolock in WOG, two Duskbreaker for Dragon Priest after I got 0 in over 120 packs, and Velen's Chosen for a Wild OTK Priest. The only legendary I ever crafted was Sunkeeper Tarim, and it wasn't even for a specific deck. I don't remember when exactly it was, probably late into Journey to Un'goro, and I tried getting a legendary from MSG. And then I opened Mayor Noggenfogger, and out of frustration, I got myself Tarim, because I wanted just one playable legendary for a change. I don't even play any of the good Paladin decks now. I never bothered crafting another Call to Arms, or Genn or Baku.
Aside from that, I crafted very few epics and rares here and there, less than 2000 dust all combined. For the most part, I stick with the cards I open from packs while hoarding dust, always telling myself that I wait for a deck I actually want to craft, and that day never comes.
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
The friend list is largely inactive. Most people I ever added have dropped the game, and I do not really talk to the few remaining. The only people on my friends list I actually am in contact with are my brother and a friend I know personally. Nowadays, I reject all friend requests, since it's either an asshole who complains that he lost, or an asshole who wants to rub it in that he won. Don't know why, but half the people I play against are assholes, who will rope when they fall behind and emote when they are winning. And I don't send friend requests, because I have not much interest in just another guy who plays Cubelock, Aggro Paladin etc.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?/ 5) how do you deal with losing streaks?
Depends on the game. Very rarely, it happens that I feel like the outcome of the game is entirely open and every decision matters. In these cases, I don't mind losing that much, just because I enjoy playing. In most cases, however, I just think "whatever" when I lost once or twice, because I'm just grinding and my opponent is likely doing the same. You know the decks, you know what you have to do, and the winner is largely determined by the matchup and who draws what.
Losing every other game for a while without making progress can get annoying. When I lost 4, 5 or more games in a row I start thinking "this can't be happening" and get frustrated. And when these losses happen in the most spectacular way imaginable, I can actually lose myself, especially when stakes are high like in Arena or one win before reaching a higher rank. A Hunter surviving and winning because his Wandering Monster happens to be a Drakkari Defender is pure pain. Losing as soon as turn 1 because your hand cannot deal with the constantly increasing pressure of your opponent is also no fun.
Sometimes, I really get desperate because I can't see what I could do differently. Many losses seem inevitable. Sure, it's part of the game that you cannot win every match. That's fine with me, but losing streaks are very difficult to handle for me. If it's too much, I have to drop the game for a little while.
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
As I said, I never really send out friend requests. But I am certainly even less interested in what a player has to say if his deck is an exact copy of what one of my last few opponents was playing.
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
I think that the reward system as a whole needs to be redesigned. When I have four or more sets to buy from (actually much more, because I think Wild sets should be purchasable as well), and the system barely allows me to buy one pack per day (grinding required), it's not in a good spot. I have elaborated on this a few times already, but many people on Hearthpwn take it as a personal offense when you suggest anything in that direction, so I have given up on that.
I think, Gwent does many things right in that regard. Splitting games into rounds feels more strategic and allows even bad players to have little successes. The daily rewards are good enough to keep you in the game, and they added actual quests on top of that. Gwents "dust" is also slightly better handled, but the game has other problems, like squeezing all new cards into the same cardpool for your kegs, and having more rares, epics and legendaries than commons, but largely the same droprates as HS.
I 100% agree with you, but I don't think this will change anytime soon.
People who like to experiment, play fun decks, and -- especially -- people who can't handle a losing streak need to understand that they belong in Casual, not Ranked. They also need to learn that a 50 percent win rate is the expectation for everyone, across the board.
If you don't enjoy the game enough to play it in Casual mode, you probably shouldn't be playing at all.
If you think you should be able to succeed in Ranked with experimental garbage, I don't know what to tell you.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland