Man, aggro shaman, aggro warlock, hunter... Its super annoying. I feel like it used to be you would run into a warrior or druid and brace for the pirates or innervate flappy bird but now its all just these spammy minion face decks that are all just really annoying. Am I wrong? Where do can i get statistics on things like that?
As for statistics, go to sites like HSReplay an VisciousSindicate for that kind of information.
Kinda a shitty response to an actual question ... IMHO, of course. The post may have a little salt sprinkled on it, but it does ask a legitimate question, and the salt thread really isn't much for discussion.
I think the influx of aggro is from the Keleseth bandwagon. I think everyone suddenly became Hunters at Heart when they realized you can toss Keleseth into a deck full of cheap minions, and if you get a lucky mulligan, you can just smash face with them. Hell, I ran into an aggro Mage earlier !?!
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
People are just excited about keleseth because it's a cool card to play and build around since it's a new concept to not play 2 drops at all that has never really been seen before. Also it's hard to play control because if you try, you just get face stomped by priest. So without control there's nothing to counter the aggro and a lot of people play it.
As for statistics, go to sites like HSReplay an VisciousSindicate for that kind of information.
Kinda a shitty response to an actual question ... IMHO, of course. The post may have a little salt sprinkled on it, but it does ask a legitimate question, and the salt thread really isn't much for discussion.
I think the influx of aggro is from the Keleseth bandwagon. I think everyone suddenly became Hunters at Heart when they realized you can toss Keleseth into a deck full of cheap minions, and if you get a lucky mulligan, you can just smash face with them. Hell, I ran into an aggro Mage earlier !?!
Keleseth came out at the beginning of the expansion though...
As for statistics, go to sites like HSReplay an VisciousSindicate for that kind of information.
Kinda a shitty response to an actual question ... IMHO, of course. The post may have a little salt sprinkled on it, but it does ask a legitimate question, and the salt thread really isn't much for discussion.
I think the influx of aggro is from the Keleseth bandwagon. I think everyone suddenly became Hunters at Heart when they realized you can toss Keleseth into a deck full of cheap minions, and if you get a lucky mulligan, you can just smash face with them. Hell, I ran into an aggro Mage earlier !?!
Keleseth came out at the beginning of the expansion though...
Yeah ... but he seems to have just been discovered by a lot of people in the last few days. I couldn't say with any certainty that I ever saw him played until about 2 days ago, and now I have played over a dozen games against Keleseth decks, including a mage running him. It started with Rogues running him, and shadow-stepping him for 2 or 3 additional damage, and then it seems a lot of other classes picked up on creating similar decks.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
After only playing wild for the last two seasons. Where there are only one class in the whole wild server (reno priest), it's such a relief to play standard again. Those Kelseth decks are fun to play against, and not as strong as you would think it is. For the moment I think it's refreshing to play against something new.
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Everything that isn't about elephants is irrelephant.
Temporogue is strong but its an interactive experience for both players. Same goes for Hunter and Warlock. They play minions and have to hit you with them repeatably to win. Kill his minions and you win. There is no 5 mana Weapon, deal 10 or sometimes 18 dmg to the face like there is in Pirate Warrior. There is no innervate, innervate, coin Hydra. Rogues have to fight for the board the most time and if they play Kali, its a huge tempoloss at turn 2. The cards in the opponents hand are not even effected so the temposwing comes through long time value. Rogues also have some reach but not through your taunt. It feels much fairer than previous t1 aggrodecks .
Yes there are strong aggro decks, but like Salohcin said, they dont have nearly the powerlevel (unfairness?) of a prenerfed pirate warrior or aggrodruid.
If someone highrolles you with rogue accept the loss. If someone highrolles you with bigpriest its basicly the same. Your highroll turn will come...
Keleseth became viable due to the nerfs. Pirate warrior and in particular aggro Druid are now slower decks than before thus giving midrange decks and slower aggro decks the time to develope their board. The decks using keleseth are such slower aggro decks that would simply have been dead in the old meta before they can have their board developed (pirate warrior) or they would've never gotten a foot on the board (aggro druid).
There is aggro because the meta is self correcting. If there was no aggro at all, then everyone would be playing greedy anti-control techs or OTK decks. If these are popular, aggro comes back to farm these decks, even though aggro is weaker than it was before. Especially with all the top aggro decks nerfed, everyone is scrambling to find the new best aggro lists
the meta if fine rn, raza is really strong but not unbeatable and with prince in all decks you face much more variety. besides everything is better than a heavy late game control meta
Kinda a shitty response to an actual question ... IMHO, of course. The post may have a little salt sprinkled on it, but it does ask a legitimate question, and the salt thread really isn't much for discussion.
I think the influx of aggro is from the Keleseth bandwagon. I think everyone suddenly became Hunters at Heart when they realized you can toss Keleseth into a deck full of cheap minions, and if you get a lucky mulligan, you can just smash face with them. Hell, I ran into an aggro Mage earlier !?!
Interesting, I would consider I answered both his questions very briefly and straight to the point. The first part is salt, so I directed him to the proper thread, the second part is about statiscics, and I also told him where he can find them...
Problem is the forum is meant for discussion, to figure things out. Swearing and complaining, belongs in the salt thread, not a question for something people dislike or think is op.
People like you are the ones with the salt.
Salt thread is meant for releasing steam, not for discussion.
so what we are seeing now is what you call a tempo deck, it generally loses to aggro, takes more skill, and can beat control after a board clear or two in some cases. It feels more oppressive though because it combines burst potential and board control very efficiently. The reason you are seeing 3 or 4 such decks right now but not before the nerf is that aggro got nerfed hard in the nerf, and as I said earlier, tempo loses to aggro> Because tempo has a similar gameplan but more top end, It has less consistent turn 5 or 6 wins. This means aggro has an advantage because tempo does not run a lot of boardclears and basically just gets raced down, with worse aggro tempo can take over though and be a little more effective against control, which is good but keleseth is kind of far too good and is the only problem with rogue right now. I expect at some point for them to nerf shadowstep though, instead of keleseth, because they probably love that 2 mana 2/2 no other 2 mana cards thing so much thay won't nerf the problem. Maybe though they will do something innovative, like completely change the effect of keleseth. That would be cool.
There aren't many more aggro decks actually, but there is a definete rise in zoo decks (there's a distinction).
I'm just gonna go ahead and be the guy to say that "tempo" and "zoo" are types of aggro decks. You can disagree with that if you want, but you're wrong.
So now we're not seeing pirate warrior and aggro druid you are saying we are seeing more aggro? Ignoring the fact that keleseth decks are, by and large, mid-range....OK.
Man, aggro shaman, aggro warlock, hunter... Its super annoying. I feel like it used to be you would run into a warrior or druid and brace for the pirates or innervate flappy bird but now its all just these spammy minion face decks that are all just really annoying. Am I wrong? Where do can i get statistics on things like that?
Somewhat due to jade druid nerf and a lot because of fiery war-axe nerf, both of which oppressed a lot of aggro decks.
The reason we have curvestone is that curving out is simply a superior tactic in HS and it always will be. Answers to snowballing are expensive in mana and rare in numbers. When one curvestone deck falls, it doesn't mean the meta magically shifts to make them less viable - a new one simply takes over.
So now we're not seeing pirate warrior and aggro druid you are saying we are seeing more aggro? Ignoring the fact that keleseth decks are, by and large, mid-range....OK.
Meh. You got a bonemare on 7 which has to hit a low-cost minion so you can lock down the games. Hardly makes decks "mid-range".
There aren't many more aggro decks actually, but there is a definete rise in zoo decks (there's a distinction).
I'm just gonna go ahead and be the guy to say that "tempo" and "zoo" are types of aggro decks. You can disagree with that if you want, but you're wrong.
Aggro means going face, only trading when absolutely necessary. Zoo only ever goes face when it has total board control, so ya, you are completely wrong.
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Man, aggro shaman, aggro warlock, hunter... Its super annoying. I feel like it used to be you would run into a warrior or druid and brace for the pirates or innervate flappy bird but now its all just these spammy minion face decks that are all just really annoying. Am I wrong? Where do can i get statistics on things like that?
I think the influx of aggro is from the Keleseth bandwagon. I think everyone suddenly became Hunters at Heart when they realized you can toss Keleseth into a deck full of cheap minions, and if you get a lucky mulligan, you can just smash face with them. Hell, I ran into an aggro Mage earlier !?!
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
People are just excited about keleseth because it's a cool card to play and build around since it's a new concept to not play 2 drops at all that has never really been seen before. Also it's hard to play control because if you try, you just get face stomped by priest. So without control there's nothing to counter the aggro and a lot of people play it.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
The decks that play Kelseleth are not as strong as the previous t1 decks. They were sub par before the nerfs.
Now we are in the situation where there are a larger number of viable decks, but a lot of those decks have the same core of strong neutral cards.
Still Kelseleth decks are less meta dominating than pre nerf jade druid was.
After only playing wild for the last two seasons. Where there are only one class in the whole wild server (reno priest), it's such a relief to play standard again. Those Kelseth decks are fun to play against, and not as strong as you would think it is. For the moment I think it's refreshing to play against something new.
Everything that isn't about elephants is irrelephant.
Temporogue is strong but its an interactive experience for both players. Same goes for Hunter and Warlock. They play minions and have to hit you with them repeatably to win. Kill his minions and you win. There is no 5 mana Weapon, deal 10 or sometimes 18 dmg to the face like there is in Pirate Warrior. There is no innervate, innervate, coin Hydra. Rogues have to fight for the board the most time and if they play Kali, its a huge tempoloss at turn 2. The cards in the opponents hand are not even effected so the temposwing comes through long time value. Rogues also have some reach but not through your taunt. It feels much fairer than previous t1 aggrodecks .
Yes there are strong aggro decks, but like Salohcin said, they dont have nearly the powerlevel (unfairness?) of a prenerfed pirate warrior or aggrodruid.
If someone highrolles you with rogue accept the loss. If someone highrolles you with bigpriest its basicly the same. Your highroll turn will come...
Keleseth became viable due to the nerfs. Pirate warrior and in particular aggro Druid are now slower decks than before thus giving midrange decks and slower aggro decks the time to develope their board. The decks using keleseth are such slower aggro decks that would simply have been dead in the old meta before they can have their board developed (pirate warrior) or they would've never gotten a foot on the board (aggro druid).
There is aggro because the meta is self correcting. If there was no aggro at all, then everyone would be playing greedy anti-control techs or OTK decks. If these are popular, aggro comes back to farm these decks, even though aggro is weaker than it was before. Especially with all the top aggro decks nerfed, everyone is scrambling to find the new best aggro lists
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
the meta if fine rn, raza is really strong but not unbeatable and with prince in all decks you face much more variety. besides everything is better than a heavy late game control meta
so what we are seeing now is what you call a tempo deck, it generally loses to aggro, takes more skill, and can beat control after a board clear or two in some cases. It feels more oppressive though because it combines burst potential and board control very efficiently. The reason you are seeing 3 or 4 such decks right now but not before the nerf is that aggro got nerfed hard in the nerf, and as I said earlier, tempo loses to aggro> Because tempo has a similar gameplan but more top end, It has less consistent turn 5 or 6 wins. This means aggro has an advantage because tempo does not run a lot of boardclears and basically just gets raced down, with worse aggro tempo can take over though and be a little more effective against control, which is good but keleseth is kind of far too good and is the only problem with rogue right now. I expect at some point for them to nerf shadowstep though, instead of keleseth, because they probably love that 2 mana 2/2 no other 2 mana cards thing so much thay won't nerf the problem. Maybe though they will do something innovative, like completely change the effect of keleseth. That would be cool.
Don't see how any of these takes any more skill than pirate warrior. Spam the board go face and evolve or whatever.
All I'm saying is blizzard tried to make the game more control friendly and instead they made it worse. Honestly I preferred nothing but druids.
So now we're not seeing pirate warrior and aggro druid you are saying we are seeing more aggro? Ignoring the fact that keleseth decks are, by and large, mid-range....OK.