That was also only limited to basic and classic cards, at any given point in time now there will be 300-400 extra cards in the pool. there is also inherent design flaws in the specific classes powerlevels relative to others based on classic and basic.
I don't hate aggro, I just want adequate tools to combat it....refresh vendor and tournament medic are unquestionably "meh". I look forward to the new set and formats
I should clarify when I mean mechanics in HS I mean everything is played at "sorcery speed" to borrow a magic term, there is no real interaction outside taunt, you cant choose to block.
Those things limit the design space, bolf ramshield (an example of creative design) needs to be 0/20 to be effective within HS confines and cost considerably less, and then everyone would argus or sunfury!
I admit i haven't seen the community designs, but unless they are employed by HS design team....thats fairly moot.
tempo mage is around since alpha? what are you drinking i want some of that. zoo wasnt even the current form zoo it was murloc zoo and druid its obvious why he existed since the beginning but he is getting nerfed to the ground. also secret paladin loses 2/3 of the deck how can you believe it will be viable? in hearthstone 1 card changes and the whole game changes see what paladins loses
avenge muster shredder minibot coghammer loatheb doctor boom creeper also juggler might get nerfed belcher and idk if i forget something. paladin became a thing cause of gvg and now gvg is gone along with all the cancer aggressive minions from naxx. if secret paladin becomes slower any form of control deck will have a free win out of you. no sticky minions means every aoe will clear the board completely and lets see you dumping your hand then your whole board wiped cause there will be no shredder or creeper to spawn minions so you will keep going face.
but the biggest hit is avenge try your secret paladin without avenge with all the other cards included to see the difference.
tempo mage is around since alpha? what are you drinking i want some of that. zoo wasnt even the current form zoo it was murloc zoo and druid its obvious why he existed since the beginning but he is getting nerfed to the ground. also secret paladin loses 2/3 of the deck how can you believe it will be viable? in hearthstone 1 card changes and the whole game changes see what paladins loses
avenge muster shredder minibot coghammer loatheb doctor boom creeper also juggler might get nerfed belcher and idk if i forget something. paladin became a thing cause of gvg and now gvg is gone along with all the cancer aggressive minions from naxx. if secret paladin becomes slower any form of control deck will have a free win out of you. no sticky minions means every aoe will clear the board completely and lets see you dumping your hand then your whole board wiped cause there will be no shredder or creeper to spawn minions so you will keep going face.
but the biggest hit is avenge try your secret paladin without avenge with all the other cards included to see the difference.
You're right about tempo mage but there actually was a zoolock before Nax, one that played Argent Squires, pre-nerf Blood Imps, Young Priestesses etc. (ring a bell?) Druids did have FoN+Roar available to them since the beginning but oddly it took them some time to discover the power of the current deck's form. Originally most druid lists were ramp decks, later including a single version of the combo before fully embracing it and building around it.
As for Secret Pally, yes Avenge is a huge loss, but as powerful as it's current minions are, they are not the most important part of the deck. Hell, some players have even already replaced Shredders for Keepers. Additionally, one reason the deck is strong is that between MCs Dr. Boom (which it will have to replace, probably with Rag), Tirion Fordring and Divine Favor, it can keep pushing after board clears. If Paladins get another good secret then the deck will continue to be good, if not it will probably become meh, but i don't expect it to vanish.
but @ snowwhite, that's all good and well, but when you take into consideration blizzards own attempts to diversify it, let's have a hypothetical thought exercise...
Assuming you need neutral replacements for heal in a deck also assume new standard with only tgt in play as we don't know yet, and
Your options are above(medic, refresh vendor), also not having a functional reprint of the Loatheb battlecry-effect at neutral would be bad for the game IMO. healing it a necessity for deck to survive aggro, and of course board clears.
You need these types of tools just based on hunter hero power alone. Maybe with the absence of deathrattles board clears will reign supreme again maybe not.
but an equivalent heal 4/ turn 6 heal 2 adequately revise the control. Unfortunately we are limited by game mechanics and there is a limit to design. I'm happy to entertain your control card ideas within the confines of heartstones game mechanics
Reading comments about how Healbot and Belcher leaving the meta will make aggro king would make someone believe that there was nothing but aggro in the pre-GvG era. However that could not be further away from the truth. Before the infamous Undertaker period, the only playable neutral healing card was Earthen Ring Farseer. How was the format though? well, let's just say that Ysera was the single most important card in the game. It was THAT slow.
I believe you suffer from memory loss, because I very clearly remember Hunter and aggro being rampant before GvG came out, and even MORE rampant before Naxx gave us the most important Sludge Belcher. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
And just as food for thought, Naxx and GvG going out does very little harm to the second most cancerous aggro deck other than Hunter, face Shaman. And you talk of Ysera? Lol.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You know that all the high cost minions and spells that are worth using (7 or more mana) are epics or legendaries? Unless they start releasing powerhouse commons or rares that are high mana cost, Standard is going to be aggro all day. Cause aggro will be all 99% of players can build a deck with. Control decks take a lot of time to assemble, much too much with expansions being tossed out of standard at the rate they will be. So enjoy aggro heaven.
I believe you suffer from memory loss, because I very clearly remember Hunter and aggro being rampant before GvG came out, and even MORE rampant before Naxx gave us the most important Sludge Belcher. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
And just as food for thought, Naxx and GvG going out does very little harm to the second most cancerous aggro deck other than Hunter, face Shaman. And you talk of Ysera? Lol.
The first aggro decks were the turn-8-mage (8 mana Pyroblast) and the Tryharder warrior (face warrior). Then came the mur-lock and the zoo-lock (Argent Squires etc). All of those decks owe their partial success to the fact that most people ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain pre-nax, because the aggro matchup was not even considered a threat... Aggro Hunter became a thing only after the UtH change and only because of two cards, pre-nerf Starving Buzzard and later pre-nerf Undertaker. Neither of those cards exists any more.
You know that all the high cost minions and spells that are worth using (7 or more mana) are epics or legendaries? Unless they start releasing powerhouse commons or rares that are high mana cost, Standard is going to be aggro all day. Cause aggro will be all 99% of players can build a deck with. Control decks take a lot of time to assemble, much too much with expansions being tossed out of standard at the rate they will be. So enjoy aggro heaven.
Hold your horses there cowboy, yes the high end threats are mostly epics and legendaries, but then again, not many of them are rotating. In fact the only very important threat Standard will be missing is a Dr. Boom, a card that is just as useful in aggro decks.
Anyone with a decent collection now will have one as good post-rotation, if not better (depending on wether he disenchants or not).
The first aggro decks were the turn-8-mage (8 mana Pyroblast) and the Tryharder warrior (face warrior). Then came the mur-lock and the zoo-lock (Argent Squires etc). All of those decks owe their partial success to the fact that most people ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain pre-nax, because the aggro matchup was not even considered a threat...
False. People ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain because all the taunts and lifegain cards were HORRIBLE. All you had to seriously rely onto was Senjin, and all zoo-decks ran over it easily by turn 4. Cards like Antique or Chow or Sludge to mitigate the zoo didn't even exist at the time, it was only after those came out that Facehunter and Zoo started to become manageable.
Now those cards are gone, but the aggro remains. Either the slots remain open (meaning that aggro will ran us over again) or get replaced by identical cards with different flavour texts (basically a scam to make us re-purchase the same cards we had). Either way it's a lose-lose.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
The first aggro decks were the turn-8-mage (8 mana Pyroblast) and the Tryharder warrior (face warrior). Then came the mur-lock and the zoo-lock (Argent Squires etc). All of those decks owe their partial success to the fact that most people ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain pre-nax, because the aggro matchup was not even considered a threat...
False. People ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain because all the taunts and lifegain cards were HORRIBLE. All you had to seriously rely onto was Senjin, and all zoo-decks ran over it easily by turn 4. Cards like Antique or Chow or Sludge to mitigate the zoo didn't even exist at the time, it was only after those came out that Facehunter and Zoo started to become manageable.
Now those cards are gone, but the aggro remains. Either the slots remain open (meaning that aggro will ran us over again) or get replaced by identical cards with different flavour texts (basically a scam to make us re-purchase the same cards we had). Either way it's a lose-lose.
Since you know so much about how the new meta is going to play out can you share what the cards in the new set are with the rest of us? You know that cards that being added when these cards leave. I'm sure we'll agree with you about how smart you are and how dumb the poeple that make the game are.
The first aggro decks were the turn-8-mage (8 mana Pyroblast) and the Tryharder warrior (face warrior). Then came the mur-lock and the zoo-lock (Argent Squires etc). All of those decks owe their partial success to the fact that most people ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain pre-nax, because the aggro matchup was not even considered a threat...
False. People ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain because all the taunts and lifegain cards were HORRIBLE. All you had to seriously rely onto was Senjin, and all zoo-decks ran over it easily by turn 4. Cards like Antique or Chow or Sludge to mitigate the zoo didn't even exist at the time, it was only after those came out that Facehunter and Zoo started to become manageable.
Now those cards are gone, but the aggro remains. Either the slots remain open (meaning that aggro will ran us over again) or get replaced by identical cards with different flavour texts (basically a scam to make us re-purchase the same cards we had). Either way it's a lose-lose.
Since you know so much about how the new meta is going to play out can you share what the cards in the new set are with the rest of us? You know that cards that being added when these cards leave. I'm sure we'll agree with you about how smart you are and how dumb the poeple that make the game are.
It's called logic, I'm sorry you can't do the same. Vanilla HS is naturally inclined towards aggro and it kept being so until Naxx came out to mitigate some effects of it, with GvG finally giving a decent balance. Now both these expansions are going out, which as I said means that they will either reprint similar cards to refill the "I don't wanna lose turn4" slot or print entirely different cards altogether leaving aggro as it is(was) in vanilla. It's just logic, use it.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
The first aggro decks were the turn-8-mage (8 mana Pyroblast) and the Tryharder warrior (face warrior). Then came the mur-lock and the zoo-lock (Argent Squires etc). All of those decks owe their partial success to the fact that most people ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain pre-nax, because the aggro matchup was not even considered a threat...
False. People ran 0 taunts and 0 lifegain because all the taunts and lifegain cards were HORRIBLE. All you had to seriously rely onto was Senjin, and all zoo-decks ran over it easily by turn 4. Cards like Antique or Chow or Sludge to mitigate the zoo didn't even exist at the time, it was only after those came out that Facehunter and Zoo started to become manageable.
Now those cards are gone, but the aggro remains. Either the slots remain open (meaning that aggro will ran us over again) or get replaced by identical cards with different flavour texts (basically a scam to make us re-purchase the same cards we had). Either way it's a lose-lose.
Since you know so much about how the new meta is going to play out can you share what the cards in the new set are with the rest of us? You know that cards that being added when these cards leave. I'm sure we'll agree with you about how smart you are and how dumb the poeple that make the game are.
It's called logic, I'm sorry you can't do the same. Vanilla HS is naturally inclined towards aggro and it kept being so until Naxx came out to mitigate some effects of it, with GvG finally giving a decent balance. Now both these expansions are going out, which as I said means that they will either reprint similar cards to refill the "I don't wanna lose turn4" slot or print entirely different cards altogether leaving aggro as it is(was) in vanilla. It's just logic, use it.
If logic is used its like Reason face hunter is out of meta is of Reno decks. Those most of the time use no healbot like reno warrior but have theyr only harder matchups are Handlock, mrgl pala and midrange druid, tempo and zoo. Since those most likely get nerfed or lose important cards we either see Control warrior reno or control reno priest which is sleeper OP atm.
But one of those for sure since after those midrange nerf those decks will most likely be unbeatable if nerfs hit like I expect atm.
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That was also only limited to basic and classic cards, at any given point in time now there will be 300-400 extra cards in the pool. there is also inherent design flaws in the specific classes powerlevels relative to others based on classic and basic.
I don't hate aggro, I just want adequate tools to combat it....refresh vendor and tournament medic are unquestionably "meh". I look forward to the new set and formats
I should clarify when I mean mechanics in HS I mean everything is played at "sorcery speed" to borrow a magic term, there is no real interaction outside taunt, you cant choose to block.
Those things limit the design space, bolf ramshield (an example of creative design) needs to be 0/20 to be effective within HS confines and cost considerably less, and then everyone would argus or sunfury!
I admit i haven't seen the community designs, but unless they are employed by HS design team....thats fairly moot.
tempo mage is around since alpha? what are you drinking i want some of that. zoo wasnt even the current form zoo it was murloc zoo and druid its obvious why he existed since the beginning but he is getting nerfed to the ground. also secret paladin loses 2/3 of the deck how can you believe it will be viable? in hearthstone 1 card changes and the whole game changes see what paladins loses
avenge muster shredder minibot coghammer loatheb doctor boom creeper also juggler might get nerfed belcher and idk if i forget something. paladin became a thing cause of gvg and now gvg is gone along with all the cancer aggressive minions from naxx. if secret paladin becomes slower any form of control deck will have a free win out of you. no sticky minions means every aoe will clear the board completely and lets see you dumping your hand then your whole board wiped cause there will be no shredder or creeper to spawn minions so you will keep going face.
but the biggest hit is avenge try your secret paladin without avenge with all the other cards included to see the difference.
Druids did have FoN+Roar available to them since the beginning but oddly it took them some time to discover the power of the current deck's form. Originally most druid lists were ramp decks, later including a single version of the combo before fully embracing it and building around it.
If Paladins get another good secret then the deck will continue to be good, if not it will probably become meh, but i don't expect it to vanish.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You know that all the high cost minions and spells that are worth using (7 or more mana) are epics or legendaries? Unless they start releasing powerhouse commons or rares that are high mana cost, Standard is going to be aggro all day. Cause aggro will be all 99% of players can build a deck with. Control decks take a lot of time to assemble, much too much with expansions being tossed out of standard at the rate they will be. So enjoy aggro heaven.
Aggro Hunter became a thing only after the UtH change and only because of two cards, pre-nerf Starving Buzzard and later pre-nerf Undertaker. Neither of those cards exists any more.
In fact the only very important threat Standard will be missing is a Dr. Boom, a card that is just as useful in aggro decks.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
Bye.
yeah...
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".