I see some people saying Patron is a tier 1 deck. I'm sorry, but Patron is too vulnerable to AOE to be considered a tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Also, their curve is nothing spectacular. And the N'zoth resurrection is quite weak compared with Hunter, Paly, Rogue, Priest for example.
That you are rank 25 or legend doesn't change these facts.
Well, the problem with non warlock reno classes is the number of card in your hand greatly handicaps the viability of the deck.
It may seem like nothing but, where Renolock would have 7-10 cards in hand, Mage would have 5-7 or less. And Reno decks needs as many cards in hand as possible, because of lack of consistency due to the nature of the deck.
Patron isnt in tier 1 because 2 aoe just destroy that deck. Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior and they are all with different types of Patron Warrior.
I rushed from rank 6 to legend in the last day with Patron and I only had like 3 losses or something. There aren't many control decks in the meta anyway to be afraid of. The most popular control deck is priest is an easier matchup than renolock or CW anyway.
Let me talk about the matchups that are in tier 1-2: It has an oppressive matchup vs secret paladin, freeze mage and zoo. It has a nearly 50/50 matchup with midrange hunter, tempo mage and aggro shaman which becomes favored if you have war axe + patron combo on turn 5. Mirror match is a coinflip that gets decided on turn 5/6. Priest and renolock are matchups won by being aggressive, getting good battle rage value and finishing off with Grom(easier said than done though but sometimes you win). CW matchup is the worst where you just hope that he doesn't have brawl. Patron warrior is tier 1 and arguably the best deck in wild.
If ANY control deck will stabilize the board against the Patron Warrior, Patron Warrior is just dead. When you are playing Patron against Priest it's autolose. And to be honest in wild is meta much slower than in Standart so you can see there heavily control decks that just wrecks Patron.
Patron isnt in tier 1 because 2 aoe just destroy that deck. Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior and they are all with different types of Patron Warrior.
I rushed from rank 6 to legend in the last day with Patron and I only had like 3 losses or something. There aren't many control decks in the meta anyway to be afraid of. The most popular control deck is priest is an easier matchup than renolock or CW anyway.
Let me talk about the matchups that are in tier 1-2: It has an oppressive matchup vs secret paladin, freeze mage and zoo. It has a nearly 50/50 matchup with midrange hunter, tempo mage and aggro shaman which becomes favored if you have war axe + patron combo on turn 5. Mirror match is a coinflip that gets decided on turn 5/6. Priest and renolock are matchups won by being aggressive, getting good battle rage value and finishing off with Grom(easier said than done though but sometimes you win). CW matchup is the worst where you just hope that he doesn't have brawl. Patron warrior is tier 1 and arguably the best deck in wild.
If ANY control deck will stabilize the board against the Patron Warrior, Patron Warrior is just dead. When you are playing Patron against Priest it's autolose. And to be honest in wild is meta much slower than in Standart so you can see there heavily control decks that just wrecks Patron.
First of all, even if control decks are more popular in wild than in standard, the thing is there still aren't many of them to make patron a bad deck. Every deck has bad match-ups, even secret paladin which is the best deck for OP. If the wild meta was full of control decks then yes, patron would be a bad deck in the meta, however wild has more secret paladins, zoos, hunters and even shamans than priests, renolocks and especially cws. That is the weakness of patron warrior: it's bad vs control. It always was post-nerf but auto-lose? Priest could actually be the best control match-up for patron. I would say the matchup is around 60/40 for priest but definitely not auto-win because there is a chance priest doesn't draw to their answers compared to patron which is amazing draw engine.
You say stuff like "Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior." but you are dismissing the point based on my climb to legend last season.
Patron isnt in tier 1 because 2 aoe just destroy that deck. Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior and they are all with different types of Patron Warrior.
I rushed from rank 6 to legend in the last day with Patron and I only had like 3 losses or something. There aren't many control decks in the meta anyway to be afraid of. The most popular control deck is priest is an easier matchup than renolock or CW anyway.
Let me talk about the matchups that are in tier 1-2: It has an oppressive matchup vs secret paladin, freeze mage and zoo. It has a nearly 50/50 matchup with midrange hunter, tempo mage and aggro shaman which becomes favored if you have war axe + patron combo on turn 5. Mirror match is a coinflip that gets decided on turn 5/6. Priest and renolock are matchups won by being aggressive, getting good battle rage value and finishing off with Grom(easier said than done though but sometimes you win). CW matchup is the worst where you just hope that he doesn't have brawl. Patron warrior is tier 1 and arguably the best deck in wild.
If ANY control deck will stabilize the board against the Patron Warrior, Patron Warrior is just dead. When you are playing Patron against Priest it's autolose. And to be honest in wild is meta much slower than in Standart so you can see there heavily control decks that just wrecks Patron.
First of all, even if control decks are more popular in wild than in standard, the thing is there still aren't many of them to make patron a bad deck. Every deck has bad match-ups, even secret paladin which is the best deck for OP. If the wild meta was full of control decks then yes, patron would be a bad deck in the meta, however wild has more secret paladins, zoos, hunters and even shamans than priests, renolocks and especially cws. That is the weakness of patron warrior: it's bad vs control. It always was post-nerf but auto-lose? Priest could actually be the best control match-up for patron. I would say the matchup is around 60/40 for priest but definitely not auto-win because there is a chance priest doesn't draw to their answers compared to patron which is amazing draw engine.
You say stuff like "Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior." but you are dismissing the point based on my climb to legend last season.
I put Patron at top of tier 2, still a formidable deck (top5) in a game with probably 50-60 decent archetypes, where did we say it's bad?
I put Patron at top of tier 2, still a formidable deck (top5) in a game with probably 50-60 decent archetypes, where did we say it's bad?
He is saying patron can't be tier 1 because it has bad match-ups and I am saying every deck has bad match-ups, it doesn't mean a deck is tier 2 because it has bad match-ups.
First of all, even if control decks are more popular in wild than in standard, the thing is there still aren't many of them to make patron a bad deck. Every deck has bad match-ups, even secret paladin which is the best deck for OP. If the wild meta was full of control decks then yes, patron would be a bad deck in the meta, however wild has more secret paladins, zoos, hunters and even shamans than priests, renolocks and especially cws. That is the weakness of patron warrior: it's bad vs control. It always was post-nerf but auto-lose? Priest could actually be the best control match-up for patron. I would say the matchup is around 60/40 for priest but definitely not auto-win because there is a chance priest doesn't draw to their answers compared to patron which is amazing draw engine.
You say stuff like "Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior." but you are dismissing the point based on my climb to legend last season.
He is saying patron can't be tier 1 because it has bad match-ups and I am saying every deck has bad match-ups, it doesn't mean a deck is tier 2 because it has bad match-ups.
I think you are missing the point that litterally two AOEs and 2 removal just kill the whole pressure of Patron Warrior deck. And EVERY control deck has atleast 2 AOEs and 2 removals. And every Priest and Renolock can kill whole Patron board on turn 4 where you cant even play Patron (Auchenai+Circle or Hellfire). Even some midrange and Tempo decks have a lot of chances against Patron. Mage with two Falmestrikes or even Miudrange Hunter which will be trading a few minions and in end game just crush PAtron with Highmanes,Call of the Wilds and Nzoth. So yeah. He is NOT tier 1 deck because of that.
Guys. Feel free to add me I am on EU. We can play some friendly matches. Just some Nzoth and the other types of Priest against Patron. Lets see who will win more.
First of all, even if control decks are more popular in wild than in standard, the thing is there still aren't many of them to make patron a bad deck. Every deck has bad match-ups, even secret paladin which is the best deck for OP. If the wild meta was full of control decks then yes, patron would be a bad deck in the meta, however wild has more secret paladins, zoos, hunters and even shamans than priests, renolocks and especially cws. That is the weakness of patron warrior: it's bad vs control. It always was post-nerf but auto-lose? Priest could actually be the best control match-up for patron. I would say the matchup is around 60/40 for priest but definitely not auto-win because there is a chance priest doesn't draw to their answers compared to patron which is amazing draw engine.
You say stuff like "Trust me. I have something about 400 wins with Warrior." but you are dismissing the point based on my climb to legend last season.
He is saying patron can't be tier 1 because it has bad match-ups and I am saying every deck has bad match-ups, it doesn't mean a deck is tier 2 because it has bad match-ups.
I think you are missing the point that litterally two AOEs and 2 removal just kill the whole pressure of Patron Warrior deck. And EVERY control deck has atleast 2 AOEs and 2 removals. And every Priest and Renolock can kill whole Patron board on turn 4 where you cant even play Patron (Auchenai+Circle or Hellfire). Even some midrange and Tempo decks have a lot of chances against Patron. Mage with two Falmestrikes or even Miudrange Hunter which will be trading a few minions and in end game just crush PAtron with Highmanes,Call of the Wilds and Nzoth. So yeah. He is NOT tier 1 deck because of that.
No, I totally understand. I know that control decks and their aoe effects are really good against patron warrior but the thing you don't understand is, the deck is still good vs most of the meta and that is what makes a deck tier 1, being favored against most of the meta. You are keep saying that patron is unfavored vs control or aoe destroys patron, I didn't deny that, however, most of the meta isn't priest or renolock, most of the meta is secret paladin, hunter, zoo and shaman which are decks patron is good against(at worst a 50/50 matchup with hunter). Which means patron is favored against most of the meta AND it is worthy of being tier 1.
Also, tell me which mage deck runs double flamestrike? Reno mage which runs only one-ofs? Tempo mage which only runs at most 1 flamestrike or freeze mage that even cut off flamestrike(warrior is also the worst matchup for that deck)?
Or tell me how can hunter deal with the patron wave at turn 5 which is going to force them to be defensive throughout the entire game where patron finishes them off before N'Zoth or even CotW drops with their patrons and Grom burst?
I mean, we can play if you want but that wouldn't prove the point of neither of us. I believe that patron is unfavored vs priest but definitely favored vs any non-control deck.
Patron is crazy good, we know it, but is it as good as Secret Pally, Mid Hunter, a good renolock deck, or N'zoth Priest? No, absolutely not. Auchenai+ Circle, Twisting Nether, Lightbomb, Doomsayer, sludge belcher! All of these counter patron. Patron is destroying every aggro/ zoo decks for free, but has some trouble against midrange and has no chance against control.
Patron is crazy good, we know it, but is it as good as Secret Pally, Mid Hunter, a good renolock deck, or N'zoth Priest? No, absolutely not. Auchenai+ Circle, Twisting Nether, Lightbomb, Doomsayer, sludge belcher! All of these counter patron. Patron is destroying every aggro/ zoo decks for free, but has some trouble against midrange and has no chance against control.
Twisting Nether which comes at turn 8? Doomsayer which you can remove with a 1-mana spell? Or Sludge Belcher which dies to the 2nd charge of Death's Bite and summons a slime to help the patron generate an extra patron? I got rank 6 legend with patron yesterday and I seriously don't understand if you guys are joking or not. There aren't many renolocks in rank 5+ and the few priests at that rank is a slightly unfavored match-up.
What would you say about this deck? I had quite success with it having winstreak from 21 to 14 and from 12-9 having some losses and played other decks meanwhile. Now I'm at rank 8 in wild playing it again 2-1 now. I'm surprised it works so good (maybe I just had a lot of luck), it's kind of aggro hobgoblin token egg hybrid and strategy is keep flooding the board and savage roar win. Alternative plans are value soul of the forest and you can refill hand with jeeves. It's also very cheap if you have naxx and finley. Is this good enough for wild? Is this worth ranking somewhere in tiers 3-5 (probably) as an independent deck or it's just really odd hobgoblin/egg druid mix?
My profile is FULL of oddball decks that reached rank 5, decks like Silence Druid, Battlecry Shaman, Dragon Druid, and Spell Damage Warlock (not to be confused with Malylock). Feel free to peruse and add some to the list if you're interested.
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Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
My profile is FULL of oddball decks that reached rank 5, decks like Silence Druid, Battlecry Shaman, Dragon Druid, and Spell Damage Warlock (not to be confused with Malylock). Feel free to peruse and add some to the list if you're interested.
Silence Druid / Battlecry shaman are already in the list. Dragon Druid would be considered non viable (Fun tier). Spell Damage Warlock (without Malygos) would be considered non viable as well. Non viable doesn't mean NOT FUN though!!! ;)
What would you say about this deck? I had quite success with it having winstreak from 21 to 14 and from 12-9 having some losses and played other decks meanwhile. Now I'm at rank 8 in wild playing it again 2-1 now. I'm surprised it works so good (maybe I just had a lot of luck), it's kind of aggro hobgoblin token egg hybrid and strategy is keep flooding the board and savage roar win. Alternative plans are value soul of the forest and you can refill hand with jeeves. It's also very cheap if you have naxx and finley. Is this good enough for wild? Is this worth ranking somewhere in tiers 3-5 (probably) as an independent deck or it's just really odd hobgoblin/egg druid mix?
Hello! Well I'm no expert and that would be very narcissistic to say so, but you need 2x Hobgoblin and should remove Imp Master as if you can't draw hobgoblin it's a terrible card. You also need annoy-o-tron as it has three synergies (sticky for the savage roar combo, divine shield if you tech-in a blood knight, and 1 attack for hobgoby). Else, very solid deck!
I play it more token flood strategy and I often don't need hobgoblin to win and sometimes it's even too slow. I just want to get lot of minions on board fast to buff them with soul of the forest/power of the wild/savage roar. My deck doesn't fit 100% in any of your category. I'd say it's flood/aggro token druid mainly. Just has something from egg druid and something from hobgoblin druid. It's my homebrew and I like it for now. I'll do simple strategy. As long as it will work and I'll like it I'll keep it that way. If I start to lose a lot, I'll try some changes suggested, eventually play another deck. I just wanted some feedback here. I only aim for rank 5 and it's best if I can do it with a deck I made myself and enjoy playing.
Thanks for commenting. I play it differently as I said, but I may try to change some cards as you suggested.
You put Midrange Paladin (shameless advertising) in tier 3 even though it's favored against the vast majority of tier 1 and 2 decks, yet control priest which, admittedly, can have some truly disgusting games but suffers from inconsistent draw is put in the same category as Renolock. Honestly I'd put midrange pally in Priest's spot and bump Priest down to at least tier 2. Having a significant chance for your deck to betray you does not a tier 1 (or even 1.5) make.
A worthy effort, however! Get a few of us try-hards poring over the list and it just might become a great tool for those looking to make the transition!
You put Midrange Paladin (shameless advertising) in tier 3 even though it's favored against the vast majority of tier 1 and 2 decks, yet control priest which, admittedly, can have some truly disgusting games but suffers from inconsistent draw is put in the same category as Renolock. Honestly I'd put midrange pally in Priest's spot and bump Priest down to at least tier 2. Having a significant chance for your deck to betray you does not a tier 1 (or even 1.5) make.
A worthy effort, however! Get a few of us try-hards poring over the list and it just might become a great tool for those looking to make the transition!
Hey! The thing many people won't believe is, deck 1-3 are extremely strong decks that all can have favourable match-up. For example, Freeze Mage crushing every unrefined deck until you have an eater of secret in hand, or Patron destroying aggro, or Patron/ Priest crushing Secret Paly. In tier 3 though, decks have less overpowered synergies than tier1-1.5-2, although still formidable they present less of a threat. Midrange Pally is extremely strong in wild now that games are longer, I could put it at the top of tier 3 / end of tier 2 max.
Thanks for the kind words, cheerzzz
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I see some people saying Patron is a tier 1 deck. I'm sorry, but Patron is too vulnerable to AOE to be considered a tier 1 or 1.5 deck.
Also, their curve is nothing spectacular.
And the N'zoth resurrection is quite weak compared with Hunter, Paly, Rogue, Priest for example.
That you are rank 25 or legend doesn't change these facts.
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
My experience is that you can already see only a few Warriors on Wild rank 10.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Guys. Feel free to add me I am on EU. We can play some friendly matches. Just some Nzoth and the other types of Priest against Patron. Lets see who will win more.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Patron is crazy good, we know it, but is it as good as Secret Pally, Mid Hunter, a good renolock deck, or N'zoth Priest? No, absolutely not.
Auchenai+ Circle, Twisting Nether, Lightbomb, Doomsayer, sludge belcher!
All of these counter patron.
Patron is destroying every aggro/ zoo decks for free, but has some trouble against midrange and has no chance against control.
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
What would you say about this deck? I had quite success with it having winstreak from 21 to 14 and from 12-9 having some losses and played other decks meanwhile. Now I'm at rank 8 in wild playing it again 2-1 now. I'm surprised it works so good (maybe I just had a lot of luck), it's kind of aggro hobgoblin token egg hybrid and strategy is keep flooding the board and savage roar win. Alternative plans are value soul of the forest and you can refill hand with jeeves. It's also very cheap if you have naxx and finley. Is this good enough for wild? Is this worth ranking somewhere in tiers 3-5 (probably) as an independent deck or it's just really odd hobgoblin/egg druid mix?
Also built a beast version of it, but I think it's worse. http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/633042-beast-aggro-token-druid
My profile is FULL of oddball decks that reached rank 5, decks like Silence Druid, Battlecry Shaman, Dragon Druid, and Spell Damage Warlock (not to be confused with Malylock). Feel free to peruse and add some to the list if you're interested.
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
Dragon Druid would be considered non viable (Fun tier).
Spell Damage Warlock (without Malygos) would be considered non viable as well.
Non viable doesn't mean NOT FUN though!!! ;)
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
You also need annoy-o-tron as it has three synergies (sticky for the savage roar combo, divine shield if you tech-in a blood knight, and 1 attack for hobgoby).
Else, very solid deck!
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
I play it more token flood strategy and I often don't need hobgoblin to win and sometimes it's even too slow. I just want to get lot of minions on board fast to buff them with soul of the forest/power of the wild/savage roar. My deck doesn't fit 100% in any of your category. I'd say it's flood/aggro token druid mainly. Just has something from egg druid and something from hobgoblin druid. It's my homebrew and I like it for now. I'll do simple strategy. As long as it will work and I'll like it I'll keep it that way. If I start to lose a lot, I'll try some changes suggested, eventually play another deck. I just wanted some feedback here. I only aim for rank 5 and it's best if I can do it with a deck I made myself and enjoy playing.
Thanks for commenting. I play it differently as I said, but I may try to change some cards as you suggested.
Comprehensive lists 4TW! Thanks for compiling this!
/hat tip
Better to be the hammer than the anvil or the metal shaped between.
You put Midrange Paladin (shameless advertising) in tier 3 even though it's favored against the vast majority of tier 1 and 2 decks, yet control priest which, admittedly, can have some truly disgusting games but suffers from inconsistent draw is put in the same category as Renolock. Honestly I'd put midrange pally in Priest's spot and bump Priest down to at least tier 2. Having a significant chance for your deck to betray you does not a tier 1 (or even 1.5) make.
A worthy effort, however! Get a few of us try-hards poring over the list and it just might become a great tool for those looking to make the transition!
The thing many people won't believe is, deck 1-3 are extremely strong decks that all can have favourable match-up. For example, Freeze Mage crushing every unrefined deck until you have an eater of secret in hand, or Patron destroying aggro, or Patron/ Priest crushing Secret Paly.
In tier 3 though, decks have less overpowered synergies than tier1-1.5-2, although still formidable they present less of a threat.
Midrange Pally is extremely strong in wild now that games are longer, I could put it at the top of tier 3 / end of tier 2 max.
Thanks for the kind words, cheerzzz
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.