EDIT: Even if Rag does indeed have a strong late game, it is irrelevant because it's incredibly rare that he'll survive that long. The Nefarian player has to be making some serious egregious errors in order to allow Rag to make it to late game.
"Incredibly rare"? For you maybe...I've played Rag 10 times at least and only lost the first one. Like others have said unless you are incredibly unlucky it is more about knowing how to play Rag. (In my opinion.)
EDIT: Even if Rag does indeed have a strong late game, it is irrelevant because it's incredibly rare that he'll survive that long. The Nefarian player has to be making some serious egregious errors in order to allow Rag to make it to late game.
"Incredibly rare"? For you maybe...I've played Rag 10 times at least and only lost the first one. Like others have said unless you are incredibly unlucky it is more about knowing how to play Rag. (In my opinion.)
As i said in the post I quoted, if Rag is making it to late game consistently, and/or with an amount of HP that matters, the Nefarian player has to be making some extremely gross errors.
I get your view point, and yes, I have had similar games where I've done what you have in that screenshot of yours. But you have to understand, you had the perfect opening hand possible, and I'm guessing your opponent not so much.
Although I do see, what most of the players are complaining about, it's less about the unbalance and more about the unpredictable rng which is Nefarion's hero power. 0 mana mind controls and twisting nethers ARE unfair, but not that common, you get them like once every 6-7 games.
I get your view point, and yes, I have had similar games where I've done what you have in that screenshot of yours. But you have to understand, you had the perfect opening hand possible, and I'm guessing your opponent not so much.
Although I do see, what most of the players are complaining about, it's less about the unbalance and more about the unpredictable rng which is Nefarion's hero power. 0 mana mind controls and twisting nethers ARE unfair, but not that common, you get them like once every 6-7 games.
Well, the point is that a perfect opening hand is not required to have easy wins with Neafarian, but perfect opening hands are a near requirement to even stand a chance with Ragnaros. The massive imbalance between the two decks is creating a situation were a lot of players are simply auto-conceding when they get Rag, thus forcing other players to play as Rag at a clear disadvantage, or not at all. That's the real problem here.
As I said earlier in this thread, Rag having a strong endgame is meaningless because the only way that strength can be utilized is if the Nefarian player is asleep at the wheel or just incredibly unlucky.
Anyone else getting a lot of concedes when their opponents get Rag?
I don't mind free wins, but this looks like a problem. (An understandable problem, I suppose, as I still have yet to lose a single game with Nef, but have lost plenty with Rag.)
ya. duh. rag is bad mmkay? it's no mystery why you get auto-concedes from people who get shafted
I've been playing some Tavern Brawl this morning, and every single match I've played as Ragnaros. I suspect a lot of people are conceding immediately if they get Rag. I don't know why...Rag is fun, and it is a challenge and thrill to win as Rag.
This screenshot attached is from my most recent match. I was able to get board control and throw down High Justice Grimstone behind a taunt. On Nefarian's turn, he was able to assassinate Deathwing with Rend Blackhand and play a Blackwing Corruptor, but I drew into a Flamestrike, which caused Nefarian to concede.
I guess if people just want their first win of the week, then I understand the concedes a bit. I am having a blast with Rag.
This is my first post by the way. I like this community, and I look forward to interacting more with you.
It's extreme agro vs extreme control. I won my first game playing Ragnaros, I didn't find it to be a problem. Nefarian didn't have a godly starting hand but it was on my case with multiple minions immediately. The card that does 5 damage to everything if the minion lives was pretty key, it both clears the board and makes it harder for them to flood at you and early on you can soak the damage. If that can get you into late game you can really own it.
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Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games. Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
Currently, after 63 games played, I've had Rag 37 times and Nefarian 26 times.
My record with Rag is 30 wins and 7 losses, my record with Nefarian is 20 wins 6 losses.
Basically, my win rate with Rag (81.1%) is negligibly higher than my win rate with Nefarian (77.0%) after statistically significant number of games which would suggest that they are pretty balanced.
Things to note:
I don't think there is any "skill" level match making (or if there is, it's not well done) so my win rate in Tavern Brawl is much higher than my win rate in constructed (~69% currently).
I specialize in "swing" decks like Rag's, so it is very easy for me to play.
Just because the decks are seemingly balanced at my skill level, does not mean they are balanced at the skill level of those above or below my level.
The vast majority of the time when I've won with Nefarian, it's because some huge tempo play early on allowed me to set up for lethal in an aggressive manner. If however, I do not draw well, or if Rag can counter my early tempo, my ONLY means of victory is getting lucky with the RNG from Wild Magic, otherwise the game is generally lost as Rag will eventually overpower and out value Nefarian. I think that what is playing with people's perspective and causing them to think Nefarian is OP is that Nefarian is aggression/tempo style while Rag is counter/swing style. Because Nefarian "hits first", it makes it seem like Rag is playing from behind rather than the reality of Rag playing the waiting game.
Rag is fun to play but sometimes the extreme RNG factor in Nefarian's Hero Power just ruins the game itself. My opponent has an Arcanotron, Chromatic Drake and Dragon Consort. I put Living Bomb on his Consort. He uses Wild Magic. Gets Power Overwhelming. Everythings fucked up. I concede.
But overall in my opinion Rag is much more fun to play than Nef because of DIE INSECT and stuff while all Nefarian does is to rely on RNG while out-tempoing Rag with the extermely boosted curve.
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Your friends will abandon you...Your heart will explode...
I think Nefarian has a clear advantage overall, as it's easier to win with him than it is with Rag. However, I really do enjoy playing as Rag as well, as long as you get a decent draw in the early game. Again, the requirement that you do have to get that decent early draw is what makes me still consider Nefarian better in the matchup, but if you do have a good start as Rag, you can make it a lot more even.
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I make it to late game a lot with rag. It just depends on do I have health to make it 5 turns later to win. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
"Incredibly rare"? For you maybe...I've played Rag 10 times at least and only lost the first one. Like others have said unless you are incredibly unlucky it is more about knowing how to play Rag. (In my opinion.)
all you have to do is take a look at both decks to immediatly know which one is stronger than the other.
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
As i said in the post I quoted, if Rag is making it to late game consistently, and/or with an amount of HP that matters, the Nefarian player has to be making some extremely gross errors.
Finally lost a game as Nef after missing two turns because I was reading threads in this forum. 13-1.
I get your view point, and yes, I have had similar games where I've done what you have in that screenshot of yours. But you have to understand, you had the perfect opening hand possible, and I'm guessing your opponent not so much.
Although I do see, what most of the players are complaining about, it's less about the unbalance and more about the unpredictable rng which is Nefarion's hero power. 0 mana mind controls and twisting nethers ARE unfair, but not that common, you get them like once every 6-7 games.
Do you like to play with FIRE..?
Won once as rag, got free pack then wait for next brawl
Why would you keep playing it?
Well, the point is that a perfect opening hand is not required to have easy wins with Neafarian, but perfect opening hands are a near requirement to even stand a chance with Ragnaros. The massive imbalance between the two decks is creating a situation were a lot of players are simply auto-conceding when they get Rag, thus forcing other players to play as Rag at a clear disadvantage, or not at all. That's the real problem here.
As I said earlier in this thread, Rag having a strong endgame is meaningless because the only way that strength can be utilized is if the Nefarian player is asleep at the wheel or just incredibly unlucky.
I concede as rag b/c nef hero power is more fun
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
ya. duh. rag is bad mmkay? it's no mystery why you get auto-concedes from people who get shafted
Yes, keep auto-conciding please.
Free gold is always nice.
I've been playing some Tavern Brawl this morning, and every single match I've played as Ragnaros. I suspect a lot of people are conceding immediately if they get Rag. I don't know why...Rag is fun, and it is a challenge and thrill to win as Rag.
This screenshot attached is from my most recent match. I was able to get board control and throw down High Justice Grimstone behind a taunt. On Nefarian's turn, he was able to assassinate Deathwing with Rend Blackhand and play a Blackwing Corruptor, but I drew into a Flamestrike, which caused Nefarian to concede.
I guess if people just want their first win of the week, then I understand the concedes a bit. I am having a blast with Rag.
This is my first post by the way. I like this community, and I look forward to interacting more with you.
And just way WAY better.
Ragnaros is weaker than Nefarian, at my own opinion.
I agree! I am disappointed when I spawn as Nef. Much prefer playing Rag.
It's extreme agro vs extreme control. I won my first game playing Ragnaros, I didn't find it to be a problem. Nefarian didn't have a godly starting hand but it was on my case with multiple minions immediately. The card that does 5 damage to everything if the minion lives was pretty key, it both clears the board and makes it harder for them to flood at you and early on you can soak the damage. If that can get you into late game you can really own it.
Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games.
Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
Currently, after 63 games played, I've had Rag 37 times and Nefarian 26 times.
My record with Rag is 30 wins and 7 losses, my record with Nefarian is 20 wins 6 losses.
Basically, my win rate with Rag (81.1%) is negligibly higher than my win rate with Nefarian (77.0%) after statistically significant number of games which would suggest that they are pretty balanced.
Things to note:
The vast majority of the time when I've won with Nefarian, it's because some huge tempo play early on allowed me to set up for lethal in an aggressive manner. If however, I do not draw well, or if Rag can counter my early tempo, my ONLY means of victory is getting lucky with the RNG from Wild Magic, otherwise the game is generally lost as Rag will eventually overpower and out value Nefarian. I think that what is playing with people's perspective and causing them to think Nefarian is OP is that Nefarian is aggression/tempo style while Rag is counter/swing style. Because Nefarian "hits first", it makes it seem like Rag is playing from behind rather than the reality of Rag playing the waiting game.
"Terribleness is part of greatness: let us not deceive ourselves." - Millhouse Manastorm
It's still possible to lose as Nef. I Lost as Nef last night when I got Circle of Healing, Eye for an Eye, Mind Blast, Holy Light, Upgrade!, Vaporize, Naturalize, Arcane Explosion, Charge, Frost Shock, Cold Blood, Drain Life, while my opponent got early Molten Giant (probably this sequence). It feels like Nef waste 2 mana doing nothing each turn...
Rag is fun to play but sometimes the extreme RNG factor in Nefarian's Hero Power just ruins the game itself. My opponent has an Arcanotron, Chromatic Drake and Dragon Consort. I put Living Bomb on his Consort. He uses Wild Magic. Gets Power Overwhelming. Everythings fucked up. I concede.
But overall in my opinion Rag is much more fun to play than Nef because of DIE INSECT and stuff while all Nefarian does is to rely on RNG while out-tempoing Rag with the extermely boosted curve.
Your friends will abandon you...Your heart will explode...
-C'Thun
I think Nefarian has a clear advantage overall, as it's easier to win with him than it is with Rag. However, I really do enjoy playing as Rag as well, as long as you get a decent draw in the early game. Again, the requirement that you do have to get that decent early draw is what makes me still consider Nefarian better in the matchup, but if you do have a good start as Rag, you can make it a lot more even.