So one of the main complaints (that i think is totally justified) regarding the current meta and the recent evolution of hearthstone is the overwhelming importance of random discover effects.
I just had this simple idea : what if discover were just visible by both players ? i.e. you would know exactly what your opponent have discovered (which is also nice flavor as a discovery is something public)I imagine it would remove quite a bit of the randomness and uncertainty when you're in a late game and your opponent is just holding a full hand of random discovered dragons and spells, and therefore would make the game more strategic. It doesn't solve the problem of the overall value of these discovers, but it would be quite an improvement i guess. It's kind of a balance between full clown fiesta (blizzard's choice) and a more controlled game (experienced player's choice)
That's actually a cool idea. I still think "Discover a random card" is bad for the game, but this would make it feel a lot better to lose to it than it does now - not to mention you'd actually be able to play around cards again. Seems like a great change to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
No. It stands against everything that is a good card game.
And... did you open an account to flatter yourself? No offense meant, do whatever you want, but that's how it looks like. EDIT I stand corrected on this.
I'm not against having ideas, and sometimes the silliest ideas are great, and silly is an opinion, and I'm not totally against it, but not in your way.
Correct move would be printing a neutral that "whenever opp discovers, [effect]". Now, if we take your effect on such a minion, then OK! Head dmg would be preferable, and I'm not against it as a side tech, a 1/6 at 3 (common / rare) that's hard to handle, but utterly changing discover to punish two casino classes (mage and rogue), and while at it, punish other 4-6 lackeys a game users that have one, tops two, discovers, because what? You don't like to be randomized against? (Don't blame you for it, and ain't gonna sue you for speaking your mind)
It's an RNG game, and it is what it is, I paid for it just like the next guy, playing the discover fetching nothing or being fetched with cards zephyr can't, and at better timings, and puzzle box puts them all to shame and whatever you do you simply can't get ready. There's no upside here in the long run, the 'punishment' shouldn't go to a class, though I DO agree those two classes' amounts of discover and RNG exceed the finer tuning it should have.
How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it! Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?
How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it! Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?
Some of the best ideas are a result of two people disagreeing but being open to discussing something and changing their mind. When people only talk if they agree you get problems, gets by on this very nicely, for example. The problem with the internet though is everybody has to be right all the time and anonymity takes a lot away from people acting as they would during a discussion in the real world.
How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it! Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?
How do you know the subject matter before you read the idea exactly?
Post title: "I have a great idea about (subject)!"
Content: *insert stupid nonsense, and inane conspiracy theories*
(To be clear, I'm NOT talking about this thread, this isn't a bad idea, interesting thought acrually)
How would you avoid it? Who thinks, "ugh, great ideas about ***... I HATE interesting ideas about anything!!!"
That's ridiculous. Obviously people can't formulate an opinion on subject matter, until they read the... matter.... within the... subject.
"Ideas for the meta"
"Not this again... I HATE IDEAS!!!!"
Seriously... Honestly 90% of the time you can assume the content will be stupid, because... Experience... But, as the guy said, once in a while we can be surprized by great ideas... Point is, you never know, until you read it... After that time, you formulate an opinion, and post it if your opinion is important enough to you.
If a post was titled "My theory on the state of closet doors in Ukranian architecture", I might pass on reading it, but unfortunately, thread titles that pop up on the Hearthpwn main page, are rarely that descriptive. Most people click the recent posts that appear there, and despite what responders often think, people usually aren't fishing through obscurely descriptive post subjects... The second I press "Post Reply", this thread will he at the very top of the main site page, and will likely be the first thing anyone who visits this site sees, until there are 4 posts in different threads, with no one posting in this one...
How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it! Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?
If so, why do you shove your own nose? And like I opened - I'm not against ideas.
While it is true that Rogue and Mage are the most problematic, isn't the whole concept of a lackey (a 1/1 potentially swinging the game several times) a problem in itself ? Since other classes don't use discover as much, it would hurt them proportionnally (not that much)
Lackeys aren't proportional to anything only at rogue's due gala + combo 1/4 + shadowstep.
I played warrior and warlock with lackeys, the amount of lackeys is 4-6, and getting a discover one is 2/7 each time, but I don't remember a game I got more than one each tops, unless it's the taunters or transformers. Neither of these two classes play other RNG outside their draws. I think they're allowed their 'secretive' control. Warlock has discover a lackey, and in zoolock I pref'ed the others over 'try get a miracle' (zephyr does that job).
As priest, there's renew, but almost no lackeys are played outside thoughtstealing lackey makers, which doesn't really help vs rogue by itself, and renew by itself as a control card doesn't make the adjustment you offer a good one, while the 2/2 DR but you get it randomly from invoke/gala. Shaman has an overload murloc, so it pays its dues as well.
This is why I think what you offer isn't proportional, you take away the small advantages that would make a player sitting on the edge of their seat, rather than play vs a white noise, which paladin does better.
I agree lackeys are somewhat too strong, but I'd prefer a tech card doing what you want rather than downsizing lackeys and then practically the whole mechanic, and in wild these discovers are extremely wide and offer bad cards, making them half useless.
I'd even make the tech card this - 'your opponent's discovers are open', i.e. you see all three choices And you know the actual choice. That, imho, would be both more interesting and would allow the effect be temporary.
In every card game I played, whatever you search or add to your hand is public. Simply because I mainly play physical card games, so it's a way to avoid cheating. Nevertheless I bet most people are already used to such mechanic and when I played HS for the first time I was honestly surprised the game wasn't showing me, what my opponent has searched.
Also I believe the best solution to address Discover would simply be to limit it. There's too much of it and it has nothing to do with randomness. I recently started playing Dragon Spell Druid (very fun deck btw). I deliberately don't play Ysera, Unleashed, because I have it offered by Emerald Explorer almost every single game. Ysera as a late game cloggy card with no immediate effect on the board is dead in some match-ups. On the other hand 6 mana 4/8 taunt with the same Dragon synergy will always be usable, on top of that giving me more options (like going infinite into Explorers) and netting me Ysera in the match-ups I need it in, either way.
Imho most decks should be allowed to only work with the cards you put in them. Having access to the cards from outside of pool is a questionable design to say the least. I don't say it's inherently bad. I just say there should be less of it.
Discover actually does add a lot of skill to the game. It's easy to have a deck you just cycle through and pick the best results. Discover gives you some options and forces you to think outside the box. It makes it harder for your opponent to know what you have, but I think a well designed discover effect requires that the results be limited in some way so you know what your opponent potentially has access to.
I don't think your suggestion is necessarily a bad idea, and it does deal with the issue of the opponent not being able to play around "random" (emphasis on the quotation marks) cards.
So one of the main complaints (that i think is totally justified) regarding the current meta and the recent evolution of hearthstone is the overwhelming importance of random discover effects.
I just had this simple idea : what if discover were just visible by both players ? i.e. you would know exactly what your opponent have discovered (which is also nice flavor as a discovery is something public) I imagine it would remove quite a bit of the randomness and uncertainty when you're in a late game and your opponent is just holding a full hand of random discovered dragons and spells, and therefore would make the game more strategic. It doesn't solve the problem of the overall value of these discovers, but it would be quite an improvement i guess. It's kind of a balance between full clown fiesta (blizzard's choice) and a more controlled game (experienced player's choice)
What do you guys think ?
(Sorry for my english, not my maternal language)
That's actually a cool idea. I still think "Discover a random card" is bad for the game, but this would make it feel a lot better to lose to it than it does now - not to mention you'd actually be able to play around cards again. Seems like a great change to me.
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
Two things -
No. It stands against everything that is a good card game.
And... did you open an account to flatter yourself? No offense meant, do whatever you want, but that's how it looks like. EDIT I stand corrected on this.
First thing : could you please elaborate ?
Second thing : actually i made this account a week ago to be able to post on the 80g quest trade thing. So kind of a greedy move still x)
But i just had this idea and i thought i would share, sue me
I'm not against having ideas, and sometimes the silliest ideas are great, and silly is an opinion, and I'm not totally against it, but not in your way.
Correct move would be printing a neutral that "whenever opp discovers, [effect]". Now, if we take your effect on such a minion, then OK! Head dmg would be preferable, and I'm not against it as a side tech, a 1/6 at 3 (common / rare) that's hard to handle, but utterly changing discover to punish two casino classes (mage and rogue), and while at it, punish other 4-6 lackeys a game users that have one, tops two, discovers, because what? You don't like to be randomized against? (Don't blame you for it, and ain't gonna sue you for speaking your mind)
It's an RNG game, and it is what it is, I paid for it just like the next guy, playing the discover fetching nothing or being fetched with cards zephyr can't, and at better timings, and puzzle box puts them all to shame and whatever you do you simply can't get ready. There's no upside here in the long run, the 'punishment' shouldn't go to a class, though I DO agree those two classes' amounts of discover and RNG exceed the finer tuning it should have.
How about if you don't like a posts subject matter you.................ignore it! Why is it people act like they are forced to read each post and thread?
Some of the best ideas are a result of two people disagreeing but being open to discussing something and changing their mind. When people only talk if they agree you get problems, gets by on this very nicely, for example. The problem with the internet though is everybody has to be right all the time and anonymity takes a lot away from people acting as they would during a discussion in the real world.
How do you know the subject matter before you read the idea exactly?
Post title: "I have a great idea about (subject)!"
Content: *insert stupid nonsense, and inane conspiracy theories*
(To be clear, I'm NOT talking about this thread, this isn't a bad idea, interesting thought acrually)
How would you avoid it? Who thinks, "ugh, great ideas about ***... I HATE interesting ideas about anything!!!"
That's ridiculous. Obviously people can't formulate an opinion on subject matter, until they read the... matter.... within the... subject.
"Ideas for the meta"
"Not this again... I HATE IDEAS!!!!"
Seriously... Honestly 90% of the time you can assume the content will be stupid, because... Experience... But, as the guy said, once in a while we can be surprized by great ideas... Point is, you never know, until you read it... After that time, you formulate an opinion, and post it if your opinion is important enough to you.
If a post was titled "My theory on the state of closet doors in Ukranian architecture", I might pass on reading it, but unfortunately, thread titles that pop up on the Hearthpwn main page, are rarely that descriptive. Most people click the recent posts that appear there, and despite what responders often think, people usually aren't fishing through obscurely descriptive post subjects... The second I press "Post Reply", this thread will he at the very top of the main site page, and will likely be the first thing anyone who visits this site sees, until there are 4 posts in different threads, with no one posting in this one...
If so, why do you shove your own nose? And like I opened - I'm not against ideas.
@Benom2207
Thank you for your answer
While it is true that Rogue and Mage are the most problematic, isn't the whole concept of a lackey (a 1/1 potentially swinging the game several times) a problem in itself ? Since other classes don't use discover as much, it would hurt them proportionnally (not that much)
Lackeys aren't proportional to anything only at rogue's due gala + combo 1/4 + shadowstep.
I played warrior and warlock with lackeys, the amount of lackeys is 4-6, and getting a discover one is 2/7 each time, but I don't remember a game I got more than one each tops, unless it's the taunters or transformers. Neither of these two classes play other RNG outside their draws. I think they're allowed their 'secretive' control. Warlock has discover a lackey, and in zoolock I pref'ed the others over 'try get a miracle' (zephyr does that job).
As priest, there's renew, but almost no lackeys are played outside thoughtstealing lackey makers, which doesn't really help vs rogue by itself, and renew by itself as a control card doesn't make the adjustment you offer a good one, while the 2/2 DR but you get it randomly from invoke/gala. Shaman has an overload murloc, so it pays its dues as well.
This is why I think what you offer isn't proportional, you take away the small advantages that would make a player sitting on the edge of their seat, rather than play vs a white noise, which paladin does better.
I agree lackeys are somewhat too strong, but I'd prefer a tech card doing what you want rather than downsizing lackeys and then practically the whole mechanic, and in wild these discovers are extremely wide and offer bad cards, making them half useless.
I'd even make the tech card this - 'your opponent's discovers are open', i.e. you see all three choices And you know the actual choice. That, imho, would be both more interesting and would allow the effect be temporary.
In every card game I played, whatever you search or add to your hand is public. Simply because I mainly play physical card games, so it's a way to avoid cheating. Nevertheless I bet most people are already used to such mechanic and when I played HS for the first time I was honestly surprised the game wasn't showing me, what my opponent has searched.
Also I believe the best solution to address Discover would simply be to limit it. There's too much of it and it has nothing to do with randomness. I recently started playing Dragon Spell Druid (very fun deck btw). I deliberately don't play Ysera, Unleashed, because I have it offered by Emerald Explorer almost every single game. Ysera as a late game cloggy card with no immediate effect on the board is dead in some match-ups. On the other hand 6 mana 4/8 taunt with the same Dragon synergy will always be usable, on top of that giving me more options (like going infinite into Explorers) and netting me Ysera in the match-ups I need it in, either way.
Imho most decks should be allowed to only work with the cards you put in them. Having access to the cards from outside of pool is a questionable design to say the least. I don't say it's inherently bad. I just say there should be less of it.
Discover actually does add a lot of skill to the game. It's easy to have a deck you just cycle through and pick the best results. Discover gives you some options and forces you to think outside the box. It makes it harder for your opponent to know what you have, but I think a well designed discover effect requires that the results be limited in some way so you know what your opponent potentially has access to.
I don't think your suggestion is necessarily a bad idea, and it does deal with the issue of the opponent not being able to play around "random" (emphasis on the quotation marks) cards.
wtf? but thanks, i had a god time reading this. some of these agrements make sense for real.
Back to your idea; It would destroy the game as we know it today. If thats what you prefer, i would tell you to choose another game.