Whenever I see murlocs in a lobby, it immediately feels like it invalidates a large amount of winning strategies that I can go for because the endgame is always the same: people playing with 10 triples and boards of 100 health poison murlocs. Demons, elementals, pirates and quilboar are all irrelevant, dragons have a small shot (but it's mostly just nadina+amalgadons), and beasts/mechs can only hope to eliminate the murloc players before they become irrelevant lategame. When I'm in a lobby with murlocs I feel like it's in my best interest to switch into playing them when I get a good opportunity as if I'm forced to - when they're not in the lobby, you're free to play whatever you like and stand a good chance at winning with any strategy which is much more fun to play.
I think poison is the main issue as without it, other tribes can definitely compete with the brann/murloc lategame, but also without it certain strategies become impossible to overcome without poison (looking at you trickster). We also have spore to fall back on if these strategies get too out of hand.
Changes I'd like to see:
-SI:Sefin gives poisonous for the round, NOT permanently. The permanent poison makes the process of getting a full poison board really lazy, if you had to work for it each round by setting things up it'd feel more fair rather than facing a board of 6 poisonous minions off the bat.
-Primalfin Lookout changed to something else. Probably controversial but this card for me is really what makes murlocs go insane with brann, and I'd rather see lookout gone before brann since he can work with other strategies in the game. I've always had a problem with this card allowing murlocs players to get crazy amounts of triples and infinite money APM turns, paving the way for loads of chances to roll into more and more amalgadons. The card has got even sillier since tad was introduced to the game, essentially giving the plater a re-roll on the murloc discover AND gaining +1 gold. Primalfin > tad > primalfin is a combo that happens all too often and it feels like cheating.
-Impulsive Trickster reworked to something else. In lobbies without murlocs, trickster is hands down the best one drop in the game and they're the only things keeping it in check. Without as much poison around, trickster would run rampant and become even more of a problem than it is now.
It’s the full poison board and ds/poison combo. How about amalgadon? That’s the best 6 tier minion by a mile. Matter of fact, every comp picks amalgadon for the ds/poison combo, even over many of the faction specific t6 minions. I agree though, while poison is necessary to counter runaway stats, if murlocs are in lobby, picking a hero that synergism’s well with them is what you pick because whoever wins is going to be a poison murloc comp.
I don't think primalfin with Brann is the problem here. You can rarely scale murlocs as statwise compared to elementals and some other builds.
Also amalgadon is a way to keep overscaled builds in check if there is no murloc tribe in game, like you say, tricksters for instance.
I agree, and i think the biggest problem is making your murlocs poisonous too early, and condition is not that hard to achieve. (Better than the old poison murloc tho) Moving it up to tier 6 maybe a good solution. And this also can remove some forced amalgadons on tavern 6, as he is the only "murloc" on tavern 6. Like cookie using the hero power on his buddy at non-murloc lobbies at tavern 6, or murloc hero using his buddy on tier 6 minions.
But with this change, i believe murlocs won't keep up with stat scaling, so primalfin should definitely stay. I even feel with this change they should move +2 health to all murlocs minion to tier 2 or something.
Overall, i completely agree with you. When i see lobbies with murloc tribe, it is almost guaranteed that the first place will be murlocs. When you know that even before picking up your hero, it really narrows down the game, and the fun. And if there is no murlocs i feel happy because i know i can try any build.
The BGs tournament over the weekend pretty much confirmed that all the top players are also just going for poison murlocs, it was almost always the winner every round with players trying to transition as soon as they found a brann. From watching dog play BGs he's also saying the same thing.
iunno, I really think brann is what sets murlocs off so much letting you get triples everywhere into double battlecry amalgadons which pretty much always come out perfect. Just think how many less of them you'd be able to score without him, and how many less perfect ones you'd get.
Murlocs are always either warping the metagame or irrelevant. Never in between.
Mass poison is a problem. I'd rather see poison completely removed from Myrlocs and something like Scalelord added as a tier 6 option than have to deal with this crap that is impossible to balance.
It’s the full poison board and ds/poison combo. How about amalgadon? That’s the best 6 tier minion by a mile. Matter of fact, every comp picks amalgadon for the ds/poison combo, even over many of the faction specific t6 minions. I agree though, while poison is necessary to counter runaway stats, if murlocs are in lobby, picking a hero that synergism’s well with them is what you pick because whoever wins is going to be a poison murloc comp.
Well past time to ditch Amalgadon, imo. The argument for keeping these was that it was difficult to acquire too many of them due to tripling, but Seafood Slinger solved that problem and now it's not uncommon to see four or five Amalgadon boards.
Give us Friend of a friend (changed to "Discover when you sell this minion") and remove Amalgadon - problem solved. And also maybe add toxfin back instead of SI:Sefin.
And also maybe add toxfin back instead of SI:Sefin.
SI:Sefin was meant to solve the Toxfin problem. With Toxfin you could have a board of poison Murlocs in a single turn thanks to the discover Murloc and Brann. Also, Toxfin always gets returned to the card pool ensuring there is always plenty to find. Not the case with SI:Sefin. So, while it didn't solve the problem SI:Sefin at least delayed the full board of poisonous Murlocs a bit. That being said, I don't mind it being removed in favor of making Murlocs more about stats and less about poison. I think that would be a welcome change.
I actually don't mind Amalgadon. I think it's fine since getting a good one requires luck or a good setup. The risk/reward is good for a tier 6 minion. I just wish there was some other cards on tier 6 that are good enough to use, but they keep taking them out lol. I liked Maexxna. Just not the ease of which it could get reborn. Once again the reborn guy was always being returned to the pool making it super easy to get. I'd love to see a tier 6 minion that could counter poison and something good that has poison for the first hit only.
Finally, I'm pretty bored with this meta. Feels like I have to force Murlocs too much and I just don't care for buddies even though it seems they will stay. Only highlight for me is Ragnaros. I can only remember one game where I wasn't top 4 with him in the buddy era and he's been my favorite hero for a long time prior to that. His buddy is basically a cheat code lol.
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Whenever I see murlocs in a lobby, it immediately feels like it invalidates a large amount of winning strategies that I can go for because the endgame is always the same: people playing with 10 triples and boards of 100 health poison murlocs. Demons, elementals, pirates and quilboar are all irrelevant, dragons have a small shot (but it's mostly just nadina+amalgadons), and beasts/mechs can only hope to eliminate the murloc players before they become irrelevant lategame. When I'm in a lobby with murlocs I feel like it's in my best interest to switch into playing them when I get a good opportunity as if I'm forced to - when they're not in the lobby, you're free to play whatever you like and stand a good chance at winning with any strategy which is much more fun to play.
I think poison is the main issue as without it, other tribes can definitely compete with the brann/murloc lategame, but also without it certain strategies become impossible to overcome without poison (looking at you trickster). We also have spore to fall back on if these strategies get too out of hand.
Changes I'd like to see:
-SI:Sefin gives poisonous for the round, NOT permanently. The permanent poison makes the process of getting a full poison board really lazy, if you had to work for it each round by setting things up it'd feel more fair rather than facing a board of 6 poisonous minions off the bat.
-Primalfin Lookout changed to something else. Probably controversial but this card for me is really what makes murlocs go insane with brann, and I'd rather see lookout gone before brann since he can work with other strategies in the game. I've always had a problem with this card allowing murlocs players to get crazy amounts of triples and infinite money APM turns, paving the way for loads of chances to roll into more and more amalgadons. The card has got even sillier since tad was introduced to the game, essentially giving the plater a re-roll on the murloc discover AND gaining +1 gold. Primalfin > tad > primalfin is a combo that happens all too often and it feels like cheating.
-Impulsive Trickster reworked to something else. In lobbies without murlocs, trickster is hands down the best one drop in the game and they're the only things keeping it in check. Without as much poison around, trickster would run rampant and become even more of a problem than it is now.
Thoughts?
It’s the full poison board and ds/poison combo. How about amalgadon? That’s the best 6 tier minion by a mile. Matter of fact, every comp picks amalgadon for the ds/poison combo, even over many of the faction specific t6 minions. I agree though, while poison is necessary to counter runaway stats, if murlocs are in lobby, picking a hero that synergism’s well with them is what you pick because whoever wins is going to be a poison murloc comp.
I don't think primalfin with Brann is the problem here. You can rarely scale murlocs as statwise compared to elementals and some other builds.
Also amalgadon is a way to keep overscaled builds in check if there is no murloc tribe in game, like you say, tricksters for instance.
I agree, and i think the biggest problem is making your murlocs poisonous too early, and condition is not that hard to achieve. (Better than the old poison murloc tho) Moving it up to tier 6 maybe a good solution. And this also can remove some forced amalgadons on tavern 6, as he is the only "murloc" on tavern 6. Like cookie using the hero power on his buddy at non-murloc lobbies at tavern 6, or murloc hero using his buddy on tier 6 minions.
But with this change, i believe murlocs won't keep up with stat scaling, so primalfin should definitely stay. I even feel with this change they should move +2 health to all murlocs minion to tier 2 or something.
Overall, i completely agree with you. When i see lobbies with murloc tribe, it is almost guaranteed that the first place will be murlocs. When you know that even before picking up your hero, it really narrows down the game, and the fun. And if there is no murlocs i feel happy because i know i can try any build.
yeah, i don't care about my rank at all, just play bgs for fun, and murloc lobbies are not fun at all these days. so i just autoconcede every time
Just play mechs or beasts vs murloc. Problem solved
The BGs tournament over the weekend pretty much confirmed that all the top players are also just going for poison murlocs, it was almost always the winner every round with players trying to transition as soon as they found a brann. From watching dog play BGs he's also saying the same thing.
iunno, I really think brann is what sets murlocs off so much letting you get triples everywhere into double battlecry amalgadons which pretty much always come out perfect. Just think how many less of them you'd be able to score without him, and how many less perfect ones you'd get.
Murlocs are always either warping the metagame or irrelevant. Never in between.
Mass poison is a problem. I'd rather see poison completely removed from Myrlocs and something like Scalelord added as a tier 6 option than have to deal with this crap that is impossible to balance.
Well past time to ditch Amalgadon, imo. The argument for keeping these was that it was difficult to acquire too many of them due to tripling, but Seafood Slinger solved that problem and now it's not uncommon to see four or five Amalgadon boards.
Give us Friend of a friend (changed to "Discover when you sell this minion") and remove Amalgadon - problem solved. And also maybe add toxfin back instead of SI:Sefin.
SI:Sefin was meant to solve the Toxfin problem. With Toxfin you could have a board of poison Murlocs in a single turn thanks to the discover Murloc and Brann. Also, Toxfin always gets returned to the card pool ensuring there is always plenty to find. Not the case with SI:Sefin. So, while it didn't solve the problem SI:Sefin at least delayed the full board of poisonous Murlocs a bit. That being said, I don't mind it being removed in favor of making Murlocs more about stats and less about poison. I think that would be a welcome change.
I actually don't mind Amalgadon. I think it's fine since getting a good one requires luck or a good setup. The risk/reward is good for a tier 6 minion. I just wish there was some other cards on tier 6 that are good enough to use, but they keep taking them out lol. I liked Maexxna. Just not the ease of which it could get reborn. Once again the reborn guy was always being returned to the pool making it super easy to get. I'd love to see a tier 6 minion that could counter poison and something good that has poison for the first hit only.
Finally, I'm pretty bored with this meta. Feels like I have to force Murlocs too much and I just don't care for buddies even though it seems they will stay. Only highlight for me is Ragnaros. I can only remember one game where I wasn't top 4 with him in the buddy era and he's been my favorite hero for a long time prior to that. His buddy is basically a cheat code lol.