Hearthpwn

Quote from Lorcen >>

 Wait, what?  In order for it to be rigged against you, it would need to be rigged FOR other players.  BGs are a zero-sum play mode.  If you're thinking "crap, those attacks sucked", your opponent is thinking "wow!  Those were some lucky attacks". 

No Battlegrounds is NOT rigged against me.

Battlegrounds is rigged to have shorter games or more excitement.

Yes, confirmation bias exists and like everyone else I remember when the RNG sucks for me and forget the times it worked in my favor.

I didn't think the game was rigged, but then saw too many statistically unlikely AI-precision attacks too often in too short a timespan.

Some sort of rigging is going on.  But it is not against anyone in particular.  It could just be there to cull opponents to shorten games --- we see how they like short games in standard and it somehow boosts revenue.

I'm a science guy and a statistics guy.

You guys that talk about the casino --- you know they have laws and inspectors to make sure the casinos aren't RIGGED.

Now ask yourself this .... will a for-profit company that currently is doing a "You have notifications blocked, go to Settings and Allow notifications for Hearthstone" against the Apple App Store rules on my iPad (*) --- will such a company rig a game?

The answer is yes.

I believe the rigging is to eliminate opponents to shorten games in Battlegrounds.

(*) https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/pt6jlf/howto_disable_notification_nag_pop_up/

Perhaps around that level you're facing people who are buying what you want so you're seeing it less?

Quote from Toribasher >>

Quote from Lorcen >>

 Wait, what?  In order for it to be rigged against you, it would need to be rigged FOR other players.  BGs are a zero-sum play mode.  If you're thinking "crap, those attacks sucked", your opponent is thinking "wow!  Those were some lucky attacks". 

No Battlegrounds is NOT rigged against me.

Battlegrounds is rigged to have shorter games or more excitement.

Yes, confirmation bias exists and like everyone else I remember when the RNG sucks for me and forget the times it worked in my favor.

I didn't think the game was rigged, but then saw too many statistically unlikely AI-precision attacks too often in too short a timespan.

Some sort of rigging is going on.  But it is not against anyone in particular.  It could just be there to cull opponents to shorten games --- we see how they like short games in standard and it somehow boosts revenue.

 

 You were so close.. :(

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

If you peak at 6k it's obviously pretty hard to notice this - and I am telling you, if you are peaking at 6k then you are making a shitload of mistakes in terms of optimal play, every single game.

 Gotta be said, it's hard to spot mistakes when you're pretty much half dead by T6, which means basically one bad attack order later and you are dead (the 15 dam cap is basically nonexistent due to people quitting early - perils of rank floors). This metagame is really heavily hero-based, I'm finding - I've been hitting 7k previously, but currently swinging between 5.9 and then a couple of 6th places and I'm back down at 5.6k (seriously annoying how one 6th wipes out multiple 3rds). Quite a few bad heroes, and with the early power of weaver or just the opps hitting synergy early it's easy to just lose the entire earlygame when your HP does nothing for multiple turns.

I do struggle with how much the metagame shifts between 'games over by T8' and 'can still be out 5th on T13' between games based on what's in, though. Adapting to metagame shifts quickly in BGs has never been my forte, if I'm honest. Probably averaging about 4th or so (not usually quite hitting 5k before I bounce back), but the variance is absurd at the moment. Just not much you can do when it's stuff like Patches/patchwerk/afkay etc that just don't really work well, then you don't hit a weaver.

Weaver does feel like a crutch that I overrely on, though. Just lets you handle early-mid with ease if you hit one.

With that said, BGs is not rigged, and anyone claiming it is should show statistical rigour.

Everything in this trash game is rigged.

This thread seems to have been posted as a joke or a way to incite people into hating the game even more.

GG, it worked ;)

Until someone can prove some kind of "damage" (moral or financial) and win against Blizzard in a court of law and force them to reveal all rigging mechanisms in HS, the idea of "rigging" will remain purely emotional.

Anyone who has played above 10k consistently understands your claim and agrees with it.   Anyone can watch a few streamers and spot it.   We rationalize with phrases like "bad luck" or " seriously?", but we see it.   When it goes in our favor, we get a shot of dopamine and smile.  When it's not in our favor, we either blindly deny what is happening or get tilted.

Quote from Drencarnate >>

Anyone who has played above 10k consistently understands your claim and agrees with it.   Anyone can watch a few streamers and spot it.   We rationalize with phrases like "bad luck" or " seriously?", but we see it.   When it goes in our favor, we get a shot of dopamine and smile.  When it's not in our favor, we either blindly deny what is happening or get tilted.

 I've played up to 12k for months and i call bullshit.

Whenever you think the game is rigged to stop you from getting higher it almost certainly means that you have just plateaued. You've reached the rating you deserve and the game does exactly what it should: it assigns you in games against opponents just as skilled as you. At this point, since skill is very similar, luck becomes a bigger factor and it's easy to convince yourself that it's not just good/bad luck but a rigged system.

Quote from Psy_Kik >>

 

What would be the point in rigging a game like battegrounds? There is no money involved, we're not talking about gambling here. The mode, like all of hearthstone is inherently full of RNG. 

I mean, that's not true at all, there's definitely money involved. There's literally an option to spend money to buy an additional 2 heroes to choose from and "increased stats to let you perform better" 

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Quote from Drencarnate >>

Anyone who has played above 10k consistently understands your claim and agrees with it.   Anyone can watch a few streamers and spot it.   We rationalize with phrases like "bad luck" or " seriously?", but we see it.   When it goes in our favor, we get a shot of dopamine and smile.  When it's not in our favor, we either blindly deny what is happening or get tilted.

 I've played up to 12k for months and i call bullshit.

Whenever you think the game is rigged to stop you from getting higher it almost certainly means that you have just plateaued. You've reached the rating you deserve and the game does exactly what it should: it assigns you in games against opponents just as skilled as you. At this point, since skill is very similar, luck becomes a bigger factor and it's easy to convince yourself that it's not just good/bad luck but a rigged system.

 The game is 100% rigged in one way or another, all these people who are spouting statistics really don't understand statistics. The whole game is programmed to keep you playing, climbing and falling in rating. If you just kept climbing that'd be too easy. If you kept fluctuating you'd be more inclined to buy the advanced stats and extra 2 heroes to choose from. 

You can't tell me you never experienced the rounds where let's say you're the +1/+1 to mech hero, and the only mechs you EVER see are the first 3 rounds. You're completely full of shit if you haven't. The game literally has a Luck system in where it determines how much "Luck" it's going to give you any given game. If that's not considered rigging, I'm not sure what it is.  Not saying it's a bad thing, or a shady thing. But : 

1. Giving paying players the option to have 2 more characters to pick from gives them a 50% advantage to get a higher tier hero. - Rigging it in the favor of the people who paid 
2. The games luck system definitely changes the outcome of the game based on if you have won more games recently than lost, vice versa. Rigging the game for you, or for other players. 
3. Paying gives you at average a % higher of luck than people who hadn't.

The game is 90% skill, but if you deny the 5% pay, and 5% luck stat, you're blind and lying to yourself.  Not to mention Blizzard has already stated that they try to keep players at approx 50% winrate, So it means they definitely manipulate things, and definitely rig the games.

And to the guy who said It's illegal for Casinos to be rigged, you need to do some more research on RTP and House Edge. Now you'd have to define rigged as you have a 0% chance to win if you want to consider casinos as "not being rigged" but at average house averages on slot machines are 4% i.e. at average, you're only going to get 96% of what you put in back. EVERY Casino game is made to give the Casino a mathematical advantage to take your money.

I think if you've spent 1000 hours on a game, there should have been some crazy unlikely outcomes at some point, otherwise it probably was rigged. Did you find yourself losing until winning? Well we all do. We also all experience win streaks that exceed the previous, until it ends. the longest streak of non-7 in craps was 154 rolls. Just saying :)

Is HS rigged? Maybe. They probably tweaked some of the extreme rng down a little, but I don't see the point in making long threads about it, especially when the people making them, both complain about their win-streaks being too short and their loss-streaks too long...

Today my 10y/o got angry at a game, because he lost and the game cheated...

OP is that you son? We already talked about this. You have to lose sometimes to learn and get better.

Your explanation sounds like all the fake media that goes on the internet and other people believe it, no offence but why would me or anyone else believe you? Why should me/we do that? Never met you dont know who you are where you live what is your profession, and there are countless more variables to this than what i just said. Then theres the fact that you present no actual proof, statistics and just want us to take your word for it because you say youve spent1000 hours on this mode,and maybe you did, but then again we as humans tend to forget a lot of shit that we do and only remember the negative parts cause thats how our fucking brain works unfortunatly.

And lets say i believe you and take your word for it, what you want us to do? Quit the game just because its rigged? In the end i enjoy it even if the odds might be against me i still like to try, its our nature,or most of us are like that.

Man in the end what im trying to say is stop convincing others of your truth and reality every person is in their own buble and havr their own truth and beliefs and what not, just play the game or quit it, end of story. 

Quote from MightyMaus >>

 

 The game is 100% rigged in one way or another, all these people who are spouting statistics really don't understand statistics. The whole game is programmed to keep you playing, climbing and falling in rating. If you just kept climbing that'd be too easy. If you kept fluctuating you'd be more inclined to buy the advanced stats and extra 2 heroes to choose from. 

You can't tell me you never experienced the rounds where let's say you're the +1/+1 to mech hero, and the only mechs you EVER see are the first 3 rounds. You're completely full of shit if you haven't. The game literally has a Luck system in where it determines how much "Luck" it's going to give you any given game. If that's not considered rigging, I'm not sure what it is.  Not saying it's a bad thing, or a shady thing. But : 

1. Giving paying players the option to have 2 more characters to pick from gives them a 50% advantage to get a higher tier hero. - Rigging it in the favor of the people who paid 
2. The games luck system definitely changes the outcome of the game based on if you have won more games recently than lost, vice versa. Rigging the game for you, or for other players. 
3. Paying gives you at average a % higher of luck than people who hadn't.

The game is 90% skill, but if you deny the 5% pay, and 5% luck stat, you're blind and lying to yourself.  Not to mention Blizzard has already stated that they try to keep players at approx 50% winrate, So it means they definitely manipulate things, and definitely rig the games.

 

And to the guy who said It's illegal for Casinos to be rigged, you need to do some more research on RTP and House Edge. Now you'd have to define rigged as you have a 0% chance to win if you want to consider casinos as "not being rigged" but at average house averages on slot machines are 4% i.e. at average, you're only going to get 96% of what you put in back. EVERY Casino game is made to give the Casino a mathematical advantage to take your money.

 I've experienced rounds of finding everything i wanted and I've experienced rounds of finding nothing, that's natural if the RNG is NOT tampered. If you've played any real life card game then you must have definitely experienced the same.

The game's developers have indeed stated that they strive to keep people as close to 50% winrate as possible. They did so while discussing matchmaking and this is exactly what good matchmaking is supposed to do. It should be trying to find evenly matched opponents, and it is.

Luck does not mean "rigging the game",  having unlockable perks does not mean "rigging the game", having proper matchmaking does not mean "rigging the game". Rigging the game means having hidden algorithms that choose to favour one player over the other for whatever reason and i have absolutely no reason to believe this to be true. I've spent exactly 0$ on this game and I've never felt there is an invisible wall preventing me from progressing.

In our country there is a hard lockdown as we speak. Because of that in combination with my vacation I played a shit ton of BG the last two weeks. The first few days i struggled to climb from 6700 to above 7000. Then began to understand the meta a bit better and currently i am 8500. The game is not rigged, you just need to learn the meta and use common sense.

Quote from dirvenstylez >>

In our country there is a hard lockdown as we speak. Because of that in combination with my vacation I played a shit ton of BG the last two weeks. The first few days i struggled to climb from 6700 to above 7000. Then began to understand the meta a bit better and currently i am 8500. The game is not rigged, you just need to learn the meta and use common sense.

As I said, Blizzard has already stated that they try to keep players at approx 50% winrate, So it means they definitely manipulate things, and definitely rig the games. There's no way other than "They make it so people stay around 50% win rate", other than to say they literally say they rig it.  

Quote from Bengalaas >>

The game's developers have indeed stated that they strive to keep people as close to 50% winrate as possible. They did so while discussing matchmaking and this is exactly what good matchmaking is supposed to do. It should be trying to find evenly matched opponents, and it is.

Luck does not mean "rigging the game",  having unlockable perks does not mean "rigging the game", having proper matchmaking does not mean "rigging the game". Rigging the game means having hidden algorithms that choose to favour one player over the other for whatever reason and i have absolutely no reason to believe this to be true. I've spent exactly 0$ on this game and I've never felt there is an invisible wall preventing me from progressing.

 You acknowledge blizzard strives to keep people at a 50% win rate, but that they're not manipulating things. There's no way to do that unless you Rig things in one persons favor even in finding "Evenly matched opponents" because that's not quite how it works, Blizzard match making always matches you against people known to be better or worse than you. 

The card draw luck% is literally rigging the game. It literally serves one purpose, if you're winning too much, you'll see less of the majorly held card in the tavern. If you're not winning enough, you'll see more. Paying to unlock perks definitely is rigging the game when you have heroes that are much better than other heroes, paying gives a 50% better chance to get a better hero. How is that not rigging? The luck% are LITERALLY "algorithms that choose to favor one player over the other." There's no invisible wall to prevent you from progressing, but that doesn't mean there's no rigging. It's very little, it's definitely less noticeable with people that have some sort of adaptability. But just because you don't notice it, doesn't mean it's not there. It by all means isn't a bad thing. I can say I've won more than half my games, ~65% maybe 70%. 

I think your definition of Rigging might be a bit askew and you don't understand that I'm not bashing the game.  I very much so enjoy Hearthstone, and BG. But I can just acknowledge that there are measures and features in the game meant to keep people around a 50% win rate which is what rigging is. 

Definition of rigged (by Merriam-Webster)

1: manipulated or controlled by deceptive or dishonest means

What is deceptive or dishonest about having a matchmaking system that looks for the player with the closest rating to you? Or having RNG elements in the game? Or even allowing double the hero options for a price?

Nothing. Nothing is deceptive, nothing is dishonest, nothing is rigged, at least not by the common definition of the word.

Quote from Bengalaas >>

Definition of rigged (by Merriam-Webster)

1: manipulated or controlled by deceptive or dishonest means

What is deceptive or dishonest about having a matchmaking system that looks for the player with the closest rating to you? Or having RNG elements in the game? Or even allowing double the hero options for a price?

Nothing. Nothing is deceptive, nothing is dishonest, nothing is rigged, at least not by the common definition of the word.

 First off, it also means "arrange something to get the result they want or to give someone an unfair advantage." Don't have to mansplain what you think the definition is, but leave out the other half.

Secondly, you're saying forcing people to stay at around a 50% win rate isn't arranging the game to give someone an unfair advantage? You guys are getting so offended that someone is saying something THE DEVELOPERS OF THE GAME literally said at a blizzcon (THEY USED THE WORD RIGGED THEMSELVES "it is rigged in a way") because it has a negative connotation behind the word "rigging". But, that's simply how games like this work, it literally gives people an unfair advantage, or better put. You a disadvantage. Along with matching you with opponents that have a higher % of winning the game against you, or losing against you to keep you at that 50%. 

Again - 

1.  Luck % changes how much you find the cards that have synergy to your card. I.E. You have 2 beasts, cards that effect beasts, and beasts are less likely to be drawn at the tavern. 
2. If you're winning they place you against opponents that have a higher chance of beating you, if you're losing, they do the opposite. 
3. You can buy a pack that gives you 2 extra hero choices. Literally a 50% chance of getting better heroes than people who didn't pay.  Literally making the game in favor of those who pay. 

Is it wrong of them? No, it's a standard practice to keep any sort of decent pvp game like this even. It's not like normal chess where you could play against some guy with a rating of 800, and then next game will place you randomly against a guy with a rating of 2100 and you'd have no way to win. This would put a 3500 up against a 6000, and the 3500 has an even chance of winning. 

Is it dishonest? Not really aside from the fact that for some reason you people don't want to acknowledge that it's there. So obviously it's somehow deceptive in some way. But I think that's just a form of in-group biases based off of people thinking a game being rigged is an insult to their precious game. Which, their precious game can do no wrong, there's no possible way it's rigged.  

Do other auto-battlers do it? Yes, every one of them does it.

Does that make it not rigging? No, it is definitely a form of rigging whether you want to admit it or not as the game forces players to stay around 50% wins. If it wasn't every player would have the chance to be at 100% wins. But they don't,

Unlike in chess, rocket league, DOTA, CS:GO. Someone that's a pro at this game couldn't just make a new account and be 100% wins out of ~10/20 games.  Because the game would force them to lose. How is Forcing the outcome of a game to be against your favor not considered not "rigged, at least not by the common definition of the word"? 

git gud