I am curious on peoples thoughts on Shifter Zerus for Battlegrounds. The variance level on this one card can make or break entire runs. With a lucky break you can get a meta defining 6 star early or it will constantly give you 1-2 star minions. It came to focus today after playing 3 games of Battlegrounds and in each of the games someone was able to get a high tier 6 star minion while everyone else was around tavern 3-4. And in each of these games the person who won this RNG lottery was winning every game going forward.
So is such a high variance level card healthy for the game? If so is it fine at tavern tier 3, or maybe it would be beneficial for it to be removed from the pool completely? I'd love to hear other peoples opinions.
First of all, buying Zerus is rarely a good idea. When you buy one, you essentially waste 3 gold while hoping that it pays off before it's too late. And the timing for buying one has to be right too, or you'd risk to lose at least the next 2 rounds taking at 10+ damage. It can be a stupid feeling to run into a Kalecgos build of a player who's still on 3 or 4. But when someone's buying Zerus, it's a gamble that can backfire hard. You make it sound like the card has no downsides, but it certainly does.
People sure have different ideas about how impactful random cards should be in Hearthstone in general, so there's not much of a point in debating how "healthy" it is to have a high variance card like Zerus in the format. All I can say is that in most of my games, Zerus was not a big factor.
I honestly think it's ok to have that option of staying on a lower tier and hoping for a highroll, when you otherwise struggle to find decent minions, or having that gamble option when you try to go for a top position. And T3 is just the right time when you should get that option.
It's a gamble, but often ends up being wasted 3 gold that can set you behind a lot in early to midgame, where the possibility of you sometimes getting the highroll would be most benefitial. Autochess games have a huge luck factor anyway so I don't see why having a gamble card is super unhealthy for the game.
I liked zerus, before I read your post and now rethink it. It's possible for a turn 3 mama bear with galakrond and a token start, after which everyone else may as well quit, which sucks for them that their 20 minutes was wasted because of it and wont realise it until they face you.
He's also a massive suck in the face of Sneeds, which is otherwise a fun rattle minion that's in a good place.
He'd just never see play at tier 4 or higher, so if he stays, t3 is the right place.
A weird interaction I found with him, when he's in hand, he doesnt count as the minion he is for golden purposes. As soon as you play him, he counts, so it triples up. Just in case you're wondering.
I remember getting one as a last resort on turn 6 or something, since i was losing a lot of beginning battles and simply not getting any combo's or triples.
Boom! mama bear (with a ratpack in the shop)
easily went to first place.
But then again, it didn't worked out the first 50 times i bought him... so yeah...
The unfair part is when you have to fight someone who hits an insanely 6star like 2 times in 4 fights and losing a LOT of health thanks to that, basically ruining your run.
Zerus is fine imo. As someone who has bought him a few times I can tell you that 99% of the time it's a mistake to buy him. I am still waiting for my first Zerus Pogchamp. It's actually never worked out for me, not even once. At best I've had to wait a few turns just to get something average, at worst it's wasted gold.
I get that his highrolls can win games on thier own but the variance is so huge and the odds are really stacked against anyone who decides to buy him. If he wins you a game then great, well done. But it very seldom happens that way.
Edit: I think tier 3 is the right place for him. He would be insane at 2 and worthless at 4 or higher.
Zerus is fine. Best Opener is: Playing AFK- into 2 Zeruses. ;)
No seriously, hes quite a Meme Card, and will just lose you a couple Rounds, until you realize you have to take that Mediocre Minion now, or its over.
But also he gave me the most giggling Run ever. Playing Reno-Trippled on 2 - took Zerus, next Turn i had a Mama Bear. Fighting 10/10 to like 15/15 Boards with 20 Atack Hydras and the Golden Mama was the most freaking Thing, i ever had in BG.
If by tier 3 (turn 7), im above 30 health, I always buy it. I know it's a gamble, but as long as I have a healthy board, I think it is worth it.
You don't need to go for a 6 drop, an early hydra, bran, or whatever can get you out of trouble. My recommendation is to buy it as long as you have a good board. What I dont recommend is buying it once you've hit tier4-5, then it is not worth it. Of course, it also depends on your plyastile, if you rush tavrn tiers then don't buy it.
If you only buy him when you have good health and doing well overall then the incremental benefit from him will be quite low since you are anyway doing well. I generally pick him if I triple up on level 2 and the other 2 options suck, if I am down to 3 gold and the other offers suck (since refreshing makes no sense any more) or when I've had a horrible start (in terms of board, not necessarily health) as a hail-mary gamble
It's super healthy, the range of rng is super wide so people that buy it are either insane if they consider it giving them something good is something they "need", streamers that want viewers to have fun, or people that are sooo ahead that can afford to lose 2 gold. If we want to talk about something unhealthy that is holy mackerel.
Zerus is how you do RNG right in hearthsone - I wish the developers in contructed would remember how to do RNG right. Essentially a card that has an extreme high roll potential, but one that is on average, bad, to the point that making use of it most of the time is a mistake - you take it when you are either way ahead - and so can afford to take the several poor rounds following if it whiffs, or you take it when you are way behind in the off chance you highroll immediately and it gives you an out.
It's a fun card. I've never had a problem with it.
Right now people don't need zerus with the pace at which they can get to tier 5 and 6. That's really the problem. It's not about some dude getting lucky with zerus, really there is bound to be 2 or 3 people wayyyy ahead of everyone else. It's just the way the current meta is. 2 hero choices should probably be the standard. With people being able to definitely pick a top hero then instead of 1 or 2 people rushing, you have just about damn near everyone doing it. So half could get unlucky, but they ain't all getting unlucky. And yes part of the issue is how much better tier 6 got.
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I am curious on peoples thoughts on Shifter Zerus for Battlegrounds. The variance level on this one card can make or break entire runs. With a lucky break you can get a meta defining 6 star early or it will constantly give you 1-2 star minions. It came to focus today after playing 3 games of Battlegrounds and in each of the games someone was able to get a high tier 6 star minion while everyone else was around tavern 3-4. And in each of these games the person who won this RNG lottery was winning every game going forward.
So is such a high variance level card healthy for the game? If so is it fine at tavern tier 3, or maybe it would be beneficial for it to be removed from the pool completely? I'd love to hear other peoples opinions.
First of all, buying Zerus is rarely a good idea. When you buy one, you essentially waste 3 gold while hoping that it pays off before it's too late. And the timing for buying one has to be right too, or you'd risk to lose at least the next 2 rounds taking at 10+ damage. It can be a stupid feeling to run into a Kalecgos build of a player who's still on 3 or 4. But when someone's buying Zerus, it's a gamble that can backfire hard. You make it sound like the card has no downsides, but it certainly does.
People sure have different ideas about how impactful random cards should be in Hearthstone in general, so there's not much of a point in debating how "healthy" it is to have a high variance card like Zerus in the format. All I can say is that in most of my games, Zerus was not a big factor.
I honestly think it's ok to have that option of staying on a lower tier and hoping for a highroll, when you otherwise struggle to find decent minions, or having that gamble option when you try to go for a top position. And T3 is just the right time when you should get that option.
It's a gamble, but often ends up being wasted 3 gold that can set you behind a lot in early to midgame, where the possibility of you sometimes getting the highroll would be most benefitial. Autochess games have a huge luck factor anyway so I don't see why having a gamble card is super unhealthy for the game.
I liked zerus, before I read your post and now rethink it. It's possible for a turn 3 mama bear with galakrond and a token start, after which everyone else may as well quit, which sucks for them that their 20 minutes was wasted because of it and wont realise it until they face you.
He's also a massive suck in the face of Sneeds, which is otherwise a fun rattle minion that's in a good place.
He'd just never see play at tier 4 or higher, so if he stays, t3 is the right place.
A weird interaction I found with him, when he's in hand, he doesnt count as the minion he is for golden purposes. As soon as you play him, he counts, so it triples up. Just in case you're wondering.
I remember getting one as a last resort on turn 6 or something, since i was losing a lot of beginning battles and simply not getting any combo's or triples.
Boom! mama bear (with a ratpack in the shop)
easily went to first place.
But then again, it didn't worked out the first 50 times i bought him... so yeah...
The unfair part is when you have to fight someone who hits an insanely 6star like 2 times in 4 fights and losing a LOT of health thanks to that, basically ruining your run.
Zerus is fine imo. As someone who has bought him a few times I can tell you that 99% of the time it's a mistake to buy him. I am still waiting for my first Zerus Pogchamp. It's actually never worked out for me, not even once. At best I've had to wait a few turns just to get something average, at worst it's wasted gold.
I get that his highrolls can win games on thier own but the variance is so huge and the odds are really stacked against anyone who decides to buy him. If he wins you a game then great, well done. But it very seldom happens that way.
Edit: I think tier 3 is the right place for him. He would be insane at 2 and worthless at 4 or higher.
Missing lethal since June 2015.
Zerus is fine.
Best Opener is: Playing AFK- into 2 Zeruses. ;)
No seriously, hes quite a Meme Card, and will just lose you a couple Rounds, until you realize you have to take that Mediocre Minion now, or its over.
But also he gave me the most giggling Run ever. Playing Reno-Trippled on 2 - took Zerus, next Turn i had a Mama Bear.
Fighting 10/10 to like 15/15 Boards with 20 Atack Hydras and the Golden Mama was the most freaking Thing, i ever had in BG.
A new hero that starts with a Zerus after turn 3. Do it.
If by tier 3 (turn 7), im above 30 health, I always buy it. I know it's a gamble, but as long as I have a healthy board, I think it is worth it.
You don't need to go for a 6 drop, an early hydra, bran, or whatever can get you out of trouble. My recommendation is to buy it as long as you have a good board. What I dont recommend is buying it once you've hit tier4-5, then it is not worth it. Of course, it also depends on your plyastile, if you rush tavrn tiers then don't buy it.
If you only buy him when you have good health and doing well overall then the incremental benefit from him will be quite low since you are anyway doing well. I generally pick him if I triple up on level 2 and the other 2 options suck, if I am down to 3 gold and the other offers suck (since refreshing makes no sense any more) or when I've had a horrible start (in terms of board, not necessarily health) as a hail-mary gamble
It's super healthy, the range of rng is super wide so people that buy it are either insane if they consider it giving them something good is something they "need", streamers that want viewers to have fun, or people that are sooo ahead that can afford to lose 2 gold. If we want to talk about something unhealthy that is holy mackerel.
Zerus is how you do RNG right in hearthsone - I wish the developers in contructed would remember how to do RNG right. Essentially a card that has an extreme high roll potential, but one that is on average, bad, to the point that making use of it most of the time is a mistake - you take it when you are either way ahead - and so can afford to take the several poor rounds following if it whiffs, or you take it when you are way behind in the off chance you highroll immediately and it gives you an out.
It's a fun card. I've never had a problem with it.
Right now people don't need zerus with the pace at which they can get to tier 5 and 6. That's really the problem. It's not about some dude getting lucky with zerus, really there is bound to be 2 or 3 people wayyyy ahead of everyone else. It's just the way the current meta is. 2 hero choices should probably be the standard. With people being able to definitely pick a top hero then instead of 1 or 2 people rushing, you have just about damn near everyone doing it. So half could get unlucky, but they ain't all getting unlucky. And yes part of the issue is how much better tier 6 got.