It could be a nice initiative but who are you to decide what cards get banned? You simply listed all cards that you don't like being played against you and called it a day. There is no deep thought behind it, what does it work on? The most played cards in the top archetypes? The cards that you think would ruin the archetypes?
First of all, your bans do not touch the highest winrate deck in the game, Secret Libram Paladin. They do not run Conviction. Additionally, you put Tickatus there, as part of a tier 4 deck in a class that struggles to see success in the meta. While Secret Passage is a huge contributor to Rogue's success, they have so many ways to draw cards that they will probably not be too affected. Also, while some of these bans hurt, but do not kill the decks (Imprisoned Felmaw, Athletic Studies), others are completely obliterated (Arbor Up, Skull of Gul'dan, Incanter's Flow).
So people will just play the least impacted meta decks, something like Libram Paladin, Tempo/Secret Rogue and Rush Warrior or Guardian Animals Druid. Additionally, many decks have ways to discover and generate the banned cards. How does the ban work then? Are you going to punish players for getting secret passage off wandmaker? Or Arbor up from Nature Studies.
As I said, there is a lot of potential for this idea. Maybe try to look again at what cards create archetypes in the first few tiers and remove 3 cards from each class and up to 10 from neutral, make people fall in love with deckbuilding again. Maybe stream it too. Although, for all of that effort, you probably need a prize of some sorts to create enough hype and fill in the 32 slots.
I understand that my bans won't be super accurate. And I will always miss somethings.
This is just the first iteration. I will surely learn more from it and it's gonna help if I'm going to organize it again.
And for the prize, I'm just a gamer who would like to explore the game more. It's hard for me to provide a prize pool on my own. But, if I found more people interested and would like a prize pool, I might add an entry fee to collect the prize pool for high finishers. But I don't think it's going to happen.
I really appreciate your input. And I surely am going to take your ideas in future tournaments. But as for this one, I do not want to cause confusion by sudden changes.
I think this is a great idea but at the same time banning specific cards would just lead to people running slightly less efficient versions of meta decks or use variants of decks that are still very much meta. I’m not sure if this is a bulletproof solution but I figure the contestants’ deck submissions should be reviewed by 3 or 5 designated members to decide if any deck qualifies as off meta. Maybe 5 is too many but as long as it was an odd number of reviewers it could be determined democratically. Maybe certain people will be upset if their entries are rejected but as long as the tournament is just for fun i would hope that people could keep a level head about it.
I think you should revise what cards are you including in the ban list cause you can cut Conviction out of paladin and Secret/N'Zoth paladin is going to be almost the same. Like yeah for sure running conviction and protector is really strong but you can cut protector, cut convicton and play the 1 mana dude that discards your lowest cost card and then draws. The deck was played like that at the very beginning of the patch and was pretty much the same. I feel like the secret weapon for instance is more problematic on paladin decks. Also keep in mind that a deck like Libram Paladin doesn't even run conviction and is arguably tyhe strongest paladin deck.
I feel like you should really look into decks and see what are the strongest cards cause for example banning skull of guldan is really good as it one of the most problematic DH cards but banning Athletic Studies, literally does nothing. It's a good card but it's not like any deck will really feel the abscence of it, it's not skull for DH or incanter's for mage.
Finally I also agree with brother. If you ban just 1 specific card then people can still run meta decks with 1 card off in most cases. And as I said Libram pally doesn't even run conviction so yeah.
Honestly, with only 32 slots for players, you could just make people submit their decks beforehand, a quick glance at the decks should tell you whether they are copying a meta deck or actually building one. I'm sure if that's too much to ask of you you could also get a few members of the community to help out.
My Highest win rate decks are not meta, at least I am fairly sure, can't say I've ever actually looked at a deck list, so I guess thoughtsteal priest might be meta in standard right now. :D
Good idea, I've repeatedly suggested this to those complaining about not being able to use their own decks on ladder.
It's obviously a first attempt and I'm sure you'll learn and tweak things but go for it! Even try Reddit or Facebook, maybe you could even setup a sub reddit or Facebook group and grow a bit of a community. Obviously that's more down the line but I think a lot of people would enjoy it.
Not really my bag but I'm glad to see someone doing something positive and pro active instead of just complaining, good for you.
What might be a good idea is to gather a handful of interested people on here first and work out an agreed format/bans list. I definitely think there's a clear demand for a community who play off meta decks with like minded people. If you get it going, the site might even be able to sticky or add a post around it.
I really like a lot of the ideas provided! I think next time I'm going to make a poll of some sort to determine the banned cards. I hope everyone forgive my shortcoming if these bans do not shake the meta for the tournament. But bare in mind that tournament metas are usually a little bit different. For example, the Skull ban is mainly targeted towards DH OTK, which is a very well performing deck in tournaments, whereas Paladin performs better in ladder than in tournaments.
Overall, I hope that you guys give it a try. You never know how the tournament will go. And surely next time, it will be better!
So I thought about organizing a tournament where players bring Off-Meta decks. And I did it :D.
The tournament is a Conquest Standard format. Bo3. With a ban. There are only 32 seats.
The tournament has a deck building condition. No deck can include any of the following cards (Hence, Off-Meta):
- [Tickatus] ~ Warlock Legendary.
- [Conviction (Rank 1)] ~ Paladin Epic.
- [Secret Passage] ~ Rogue Epic.
- [Skull of Gul'dan] ~ Demon Hunter Rare.
- [Arbor Up] ~ Druid Rare.
- [Palm Reading] ~ Priest Rare.
- [Imprisoned Felmaw] ~ Hunter Common.
- [Incanter's Flow] ~ Mage Common.
- [Athletic Studies] ~ Warrior Common.
- [Venomous Scorpid] ~ Neutral Common.
The tournament is on Friday 28th of May 2021. Please join if you can/interested.
Tournament link on Battlefy: https://battlefy.com/them4kh/[forged-in-the-barrens]-off-meta-tournament-1/60ab8df6e984f71496909146/info
It could be a nice initiative but who are you to decide what cards get banned? You simply listed all cards that you don't like being played against you and called it a day. There is no deep thought behind it, what does it work on? The most played cards in the top archetypes? The cards that you think would ruin the archetypes?
First of all, your bans do not touch the highest winrate deck in the game, Secret Libram Paladin. They do not run Conviction. Additionally, you put Tickatus there, as part of a tier 4 deck in a class that struggles to see success in the meta. While Secret Passage is a huge contributor to Rogue's success, they have so many ways to draw cards that they will probably not be too affected. Also, while some of these bans hurt, but do not kill the decks (Imprisoned Felmaw, Athletic Studies), others are completely obliterated (Arbor Up, Skull of Gul'dan, Incanter's Flow).
So people will just play the least impacted meta decks, something like Libram Paladin, Tempo/Secret Rogue and Rush Warrior or Guardian Animals Druid. Additionally, many decks have ways to discover and generate the banned cards. How does the ban work then? Are you going to punish players for getting secret passage off wandmaker? Or Arbor up from Nature Studies.
As I said, there is a lot of potential for this idea. Maybe try to look again at what cards create archetypes in the first few tiers and remove 3 cards from each class and up to 10 from neutral, make people fall in love with deckbuilding again. Maybe stream it too. Although, for all of that effort, you probably need a prize of some sorts to create enough hype and fill in the 32 slots.
Good luck!
Super nice The_M4Khh !
I am in :) .
Andrei2007 >>
I understand that my bans won't be super accurate. And I will always miss somethings.
This is just the first iteration. I will surely learn more from it and it's gonna help if I'm going to organize it again.
And for the prize, I'm just a gamer who would like to explore the game more. It's hard for me to provide a prize pool on my own. But, if I found more people interested and would like a prize pool, I might add an entry fee to collect the prize pool for high finishers. But I don't think it's going to happen.
I really appreciate your input. And I surely am going to take your ideas in future tournaments. But as for this one, I do not want to cause confusion by sudden changes.
I think this is a great idea but at the same time banning specific cards would just lead to people running slightly less efficient versions of meta decks or use variants of decks that are still very much meta. I’m not sure if this is a bulletproof solution but I figure the contestants’ deck submissions should be reviewed by 3 or 5 designated members to decide if any deck qualifies as off meta. Maybe 5 is too many but as long as it was an odd number of reviewers it could be determined democratically. Maybe certain people will be upset if their entries are rejected but as long as the tournament is just for fun i would hope that people could keep a level head about it.
I think you should revise what cards are you including in the ban list cause you can cut Conviction out of paladin and Secret/N'Zoth paladin is going to be almost the same. Like yeah for sure running conviction and protector is really strong but you can cut protector, cut convicton and play the 1 mana dude that discards your lowest cost card and then draws. The deck was played like that at the very beginning of the patch and was pretty much the same. I feel like the secret weapon for instance is more problematic on paladin decks. Also keep in mind that a deck like Libram Paladin doesn't even run conviction and is arguably tyhe strongest paladin deck.
I feel like you should really look into decks and see what are the strongest cards cause for example banning skull of guldan is really good as it one of the most problematic DH cards but banning Athletic Studies, literally does nothing. It's a good card but it's not like any deck will really feel the abscence of it, it's not skull for DH or incanter's for mage.
Finally I also agree with brother. If you ban just 1 specific card then people can still run meta decks with 1 card off in most cases. And as I said Libram pally doesn't even run conviction so yeah.
Honestly, with only 32 slots for players, you could just make people submit their decks beforehand, a quick glance at the decks should tell you whether they are copying a meta deck or actually building one. I'm sure if that's too much to ask of you you could also get a few members of the community to help out.
My Highest win rate decks are not meta, at least I am fairly sure, can't say I've ever actually looked at a deck list, so I guess thoughtsteal priest might be meta in standard right now. :D
Good idea, I've repeatedly suggested this to those complaining about not being able to use their own decks on ladder.
It's obviously a first attempt and I'm sure you'll learn and tweak things but go for it! Even try Reddit or Facebook, maybe you could even setup a sub reddit or Facebook group and grow a bit of a community. Obviously that's more down the line but I think a lot of people would enjoy it.
Not really my bag but I'm glad to see someone doing something positive and pro active instead of just complaining, good for you.
What might be a good idea is to gather a handful of interested people on here first and work out an agreed format/bans list. I definitely think there's a clear demand for a community who play off meta decks with like minded people. If you get it going, the site might even be able to sticky or add a post around it.
I really like a lot of the ideas provided! I think next time I'm going to make a poll of some sort to determine the banned cards. I hope everyone forgive my shortcoming if these bans do not shake the meta for the tournament. But bare in mind that tournament metas are usually a little bit different. For example, the Skull ban is mainly targeted towards DH OTK, which is a very well performing deck in tournaments, whereas Paladin performs better in ladder than in tournaments.
Overall, I hope that you guys give it a try. You never know how the tournament will go. And surely next time, it will be better!
Thank You for hosting this, I won and it was a glorious moment !