It would be okay if I found youtube videos or twitch streamers or vods who are beating hunters and saying "yea it's a tough matchup, but you can win." But they aren't. They are saying "oh a hunter? It's a coin flip. Either he gets a bad hand or a good hand, a good hand and you lose automatically, a bad hand and you have a chance to out play him." Out play him, not simply win because he got a bad hand, which would be the opposite side of the coin if hunter was at least balanced.
Coinflipping hunters only applies to rush hunters. Whenever you see a beastcentric ("classic") hunter, or even a control hunter, it is less of a coinflip, but rather the situation you prefer: It can be closeup matches, with winconditions swinging back and fourth, until someone wins.
So don't shame the hunter for being a coinflip, it's just the specific way of playing him (rush).
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Unleash the Hounds is grossly overpowered. Its previous price of 4 mana was actually correct. The problem is that the entire hunter class is underpowered with lots of cards that rely on flimsy synergy or that are just generally too weak. UtH made the class playable even at high levels. Nerfing UtH (which imo should be done) would also require buffing or changing a lot of other Hunter cards to make the class decent/good. This is a pretty big task that could eff up a lot of things.
I'd like to add that unless your deck is really prepared to deal with Hunters, you are going to lose to Hunters. It's a sad reality, but not a hopeless one. I do get a good winrate against Hunters (~50%) with some of my decks (that being zoo Warlock, Giant Paladin, Control Paladin and Hunter). Sometimes it's hopeless, sometimes you can sneak a win. The class is not overpowered itself, I see the problem residing with UTH.
I'd suggest that you (Slachtbeest) adapt your deck to deal with Hunters. If you're a Mage or Shaman, include some Sunfury Protectors or Arguses, Earthen Ring Farseers and overall less small minions. Your winrate should improve significantly.
Unleash the Hounds is grossly overpowered. Its previous price of 4 mana was actually correct. The problem is that the entire hunter class is underpowered with lots of cards that rely on flimsy synergy or that are just generally too weak. UtH made the class playable even at high levels. Nerfing UtH (which imo should be done) would also require buffing or changing a lot of other Hunter cards to make the class decent/good. This is a pretty big task that could eff up a lot of things.
It's no more OP than Paladin having the ability to reduce all minion's health to 1, then sweep them away with consecration, or Priest having the ability to double minion's health, then match their attack to it - along with stealing cards from the opponent's deck, or Mage having the ability to morph your biggest threats, sweep the board clear at round 7, and finish you off with Pyro round 10, after beating you down with fireballs that ignore taunts .... ALL of them have OP tricks. UTH is tame compared to some of them.
I think people just pick out the Hunter to moan about because there seems to be a lot of them around atm. If they faced mostly Paladin they'd be on here moaning that equality/humility/consecration was OP. You won't see them moan about the OP 'tricks' they use to win either ;)
OP: If Hunter is so overpowered, I suggest trying it yourself, and come back and show us how far you climb.
I'll take that bet, I face rolled into NA legendary with Hunter rush already, and Unleash the Hounds is on a whole other level of broken than cards like Pyroblast or Mind Control because it costs 2 mana and warps the game from A to Z, the whole class is leaning on a single card and retarding the metagame about as much as Warlock Giants.
Unleash the Hounds is grossly overpowered. Its previous price of 4 mana was actually correct. The problem is that the entire hunter class is underpowered with lots of cards that rely on flimsy synergy or that are just generally too weak. UtH made the class playable even at high levels. Nerfing UtH (which imo should be done) would also require buffing or changing a lot of other Hunter cards to make the class decent/good. This is a pretty big task that could eff up a lot of things.
It's no more OP than Paladin having the ability to reduce all minion's health to 1, then sweep them away with consecration, or Priest having the ability to double minion's health, then match their attack to it - along with stealing cards from the opponent's deck, or Mage having the ability to morph your biggest threats, sweep the board clear at round 7, and finish you off with Pyro round 10, after beating you down with fireballs that ignore taunts .... ALL of them have OP tricks. UTH is tame compared to some of them.
I think people just pick out the Hunter to moan about because there seems to be a lot of them around atm. If they faced mostly Paladin they'd be on here moaning that equality/humility/consecration was OP. You won't see them moan about the OP 'tricks' they use to win either ;)
OP: If Hunter is so overpowered, I suggest trying it yourself, and come back and show us how far you climb.
Priests lose to Hunters unless you build the deck to specifically counter rush decks, if they do play anti-rush deck, they lose to control decks. Which is basically the only two types decks that are rotating in-between.
I went to rank 9 as Hunter with some derp cards. Yes, it is retarded to play against, and it feels cheap when I see "You win... this time", "I choose death!", "I give up" etc.
It takes some knowledge to know what cards to play and to keep, and that's done in 15 games if you already know how the game works.
One dimensional eh? I hear some Priests do I? :D Let me see ... Drop a Northshire, hope it survives so you can heal it and draw, drop a lightwell or light spawn next, hope for the best on those too, so you can double their health and then match the attack to it ... or maybe a gurbashi, or an injured blademaster ... then steal your opponent's cards because yours lack variety - sound familiar?? I detest Priest more than any others.
I'm not just defending Hunter, I do play it a bit, but also play Druid, Paladin and Shaman a lot. Different types for different players. I rarely play Priest, Mage or Rogue. I find those 3 the blandest, least imaginative. I could list their flow of moves by heart and I don't even use them.
Warlock and Warrior are the in-betweeners IMO. Play them now and then, but they're a bit so-so.
One dimensional eh? I hear some Priests do I? :D Let me see ... Drop a Northshire, hope it survives so you can heal it and draw,
Actually, you typically hold Northshire Cleric until you drop a Holy Nova or Circle of Healing. You only use it as a 1-drop versus serious aggro, and even then you think twice.
Re: OP: At higher levels of play, you can't really "outplay" your opponent, because your opponent typically is pretty skilled. Also your opponent can't "outplay" you, because if you've reached high level, probably you know the meta, variations of meta, and the "right" plays to make. So what it comes down to is RNG card draw. That isn't to say that Hearthstone is nothing but RNG, though. As with most high level competitions in which outcomes are not perfectly controlled, there's an element of chance - a snowboarder might miss timing because the sun came out from behind the clouds at a particular moment; it might rain on an open field and a cross-country runner might slip at one particular point, and so on. It's how people handle themselves consistently over repeated trials that determines who are "champions" and who are not.
So if you want to believe that everything is RNG and you have no control over the situation, you can believe that. Or you can believe that there is RNG and you still have some control over the situation, and do what you can to excel. It's really your choice.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
One dimensional eh? I hear some Priests do I? :D Let me see ... [ramble]
A player of Hunter, one of the most overpowered class in the game, is blaming THE most underpowered class in the game. Yes, I played priest A LOT and every game is a goddamn challenge. Ask some high-ranked priest players.
One dimensional eh? I hear some Priests do I? :D Let me see ... [ramble]
A player of Hunter, one of the most overpowered class in the game, is blaming THE most underpowered class in the game. Yes, I played priest A LOT and every game is a goddamn challenge. Ask some high-ranked priest players.
A player of Hunter?? You realise most players use Hunter now and then? They only moan when they have to face it! I beat Hunters most times, I see nothing OP about them. The rush hunter can be frustrating but then so can rush Warlock/Warrior ...
I don't get people saying Priest in under powered, in fact I find that laughable! Slow is what they are, unimaginative and irritating ... but under powered? when they're using all YOUR best cards to play against you? lol.
The thing is, at first I thought secret hunters were interesting because you had to try to figure out what secret had been played, but the solution to that is so simple. You just attack to the face with the weakest thing you have. If its misdirection or freezing trap, you had the best case scenario, if its explosive trap it doesnt matter because there is no counterplay, and if its snake trap then you avoided proccing it by going to the face.
also, beating hunters pretty much comes down to "do you have taunt?" which is why Defender of Argus is so popular. It gives taunt in rush decks.
the people who say Hunters arn't broken are either hunter players who think they are amazing and don't want their "skill" plays to be nerfed, or they are just ignorant to the fact that the Hunter class has hurt this game considerably.
Is it possible to ban a topic or at least pin one of these posts for continued discussion I seriously see one of these posts daily and its the same arguments over and over I would really enjoy seeing other topics able to get more attention.
A player of Hunter?? You realise most players use Hunter now and then? They only moan when they have to face it! I beat Hunters most times, I see nothing OP about them. The rush hunter can be frustrating but then so can rush Warlock/Warrior ...
I don't get people saying Priest in under powered, in fact I find that laughable! Slow is what they are, unimaginative and irritating ... but under powered? when they're using all YOUR best cards to play against you? lol.
Try to go above rank 10 with priest and talk to me again about how overpowered they are.
Unleash the Hounds is grossly overpowered. Its previous price of 4 mana was actually correct. The problem is that the entire hunter class is underpowered with lots of cards that rely on flimsy synergy or that are just generally too weak. UtH made the class playable even at high levels. Nerfing UtH (which imo should be done) would also require buffing or changing a lot of other Hunter cards to make the class decent/good. This is a pretty big task that could eff up a lot of things.
It's no more OP than Paladin having the ability to reduce all minion's health to 1, then sweep them away with consecration, or Priest having the ability to double minion's health, then match their attack to it - along with stealing cards from the opponent's deck, or Mage having the ability to morph your biggest threats, sweep the board clear at round 7, and finish you off with Pyro round 10, after beating you down with fireballs that ignore taunts .... ALL of them have OP tricks. UTH is tame compared to some of them.
I think people just pick out the Hunter to moan about because there seems to be a lot of them around atm. If they faced mostly Paladin they'd be on here moaning that equality/humility/consecration was OP. You won't see them moan about the OP 'tricks' they use to win either ;)
OP: If Hunter is so overpowered, I suggest trying it yourself, and come back and show us how far you climb.
It's overpowered from a card budget standpoint. It does way more than its cost would indicate. The best 2 mana cost minions end up being around 5 total stats (2/3 or 3/2, some with additional fun), against 3 minions UtH gives you 6 total stats for the cost, with the possibility of scaling up to 14 total with the one lone card. And that's not even counting the value you can get when comboing it with Starving Buzzard, Kill Command, Timber Wolf etc. In short: it's overpowered. But as I said, most other hunter cards are underpowered. I would much prefer a more balanced class and a 4 cost UtH.
Equality is better balanced for its cost because of the enormous drawback of playing it when you have minions out. Paladins also entirely lack direct non-damage based removal, hence there's an actual need for the spell.
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It would be okay if I found youtube videos or twitch streamers or vods who are beating hunters and saying "yea it's a tough matchup, but you can win." But they aren't. They are saying "oh a hunter? It's a coin flip. Either he gets a bad hand or a good hand, a good hand and you lose automatically, a bad hand and you have a chance to out play him." Out play him, not simply win because he got a bad hand, which would be the opposite side of the coin if hunter was at least balanced.
Yet another Anti Hunter thread ... zzzzz
This could be said for most of the Heroes tbh.
I find Hunter one of the most straight forward to play against.
Name something unbalanced about Hunter and I could tell you 2-3 'tricks' the others have that are equal or outshine it.
Coinflipping hunters only applies to rush hunters.
Whenever you see a beastcentric ("classic") hunter, or even a control hunter, it is less of a coinflip, but rather the situation you prefer: It can be closeup matches, with winconditions swinging back and fourth, until someone wins.
So don't shame the hunter for being a coinflip, it's just the specific way of playing him (rush).
Please report toxic behaviour and unwanted threads, so the moderators can deal with them.
Unleash the Hounds is grossly overpowered. Its previous price of 4 mana was actually correct. The problem is that the entire hunter class is underpowered with lots of cards that rely on flimsy synergy or that are just generally too weak. UtH made the class playable even at high levels. Nerfing UtH (which imo should be done) would also require buffing or changing a lot of other Hunter cards to make the class decent/good. This is a pretty big task that could eff up a lot of things.
I'd like to add that unless your deck is really prepared to deal with Hunters, you are going to lose to Hunters. It's a sad reality, but not a hopeless one. I do get a good winrate against Hunters (~50%) with some of my decks (that being zoo Warlock, Giant Paladin, Control Paladin and Hunter). Sometimes it's hopeless, sometimes you can sneak a win. The class is not overpowered itself, I see the problem residing with UTH.
I'd suggest that you (Slachtbeest) adapt your deck to deal with Hunters. If you're a Mage or Shaman, include some Sunfury Protectors or Arguses, Earthen Ring Farseers and overall less small minions. Your winrate should improve significantly.
Reno Druid Rank 5 72% wr // Cards: Fix Shaman and Hunter
It's no more OP than Paladin having the ability to reduce all minion's health to 1, then sweep them away with consecration, or Priest having the ability to double minion's health, then match their attack to it - along with stealing cards from the opponent's deck, or Mage having the ability to morph your biggest threats, sweep the board clear at round 7, and finish you off with Pyro round 10, after beating you down with fireballs that ignore taunts .... ALL of them have OP tricks. UTH is tame compared to some of them.
I think people just pick out the Hunter to moan about because there seems to be a lot of them around atm. If they faced mostly Paladin they'd be on here moaning that equality/humility/consecration was OP. You won't see them moan about the OP 'tricks' they use to win either ;)
OP: If Hunter is so overpowered, I suggest trying it yourself, and come back and show us how far you climb.
I'll take that bet, I face rolled into NA legendary with Hunter rush already, and Unleash the Hounds is on a whole other level of broken than cards like Pyroblast or Mind Control because it costs 2 mana and warps the game from A to Z, the whole class is leaning on a single card and retarding the metagame about as much as Warlock Giants.
Priests lose to Hunters unless you build the deck to specifically counter rush decks, if they do play anti-rush deck, they lose to control decks. Which is basically the only two types decks that are rotating in-between.
I went to rank 9 as Hunter with some derp cards. Yes, it is retarded to play against, and it feels cheap when I see "You win... this time", "I choose death!", "I give up" etc.
It takes some knowledge to know what cards to play and to keep, and that's done in 15 games if you already know how the game works.
One dimensional eh? I hear some Priests do I? :D Let me see ... Drop a Northshire, hope it survives so you can heal it and draw, drop a lightwell or light spawn next, hope for the best on those too, so you can double their health and then match the attack to it ... or maybe a gurbashi, or an injured blademaster ... then steal your opponent's cards because yours lack variety - sound familiar?? I detest Priest more than any others.
I'm not just defending Hunter, I do play it a bit, but also play Druid, Paladin and Shaman a lot. Different types for different players. I rarely play Priest, Mage or Rogue. I find those 3 the blandest, least imaginative. I could list their flow of moves by heart and I don't even use them.
Warlock and Warrior are the in-betweeners IMO. Play them now and then, but they're a bit so-so.
I like playing against hunters because I win most of the games. See that's the thing your personal failure doesn't count.
Actually, you typically hold Northshire Cleric until you drop a Holy Nova or Circle of Healing. You only use it as a 1-drop versus serious aggro, and even then you think twice.
Re: OP: At higher levels of play, you can't really "outplay" your opponent, because your opponent typically is pretty skilled. Also your opponent can't "outplay" you, because if you've reached high level, probably you know the meta, variations of meta, and the "right" plays to make. So what it comes down to is RNG card draw. That isn't to say that Hearthstone is nothing but RNG, though. As with most high level competitions in which outcomes are not perfectly controlled, there's an element of chance - a snowboarder might miss timing because the sun came out from behind the clouds at a particular moment; it might rain on an open field and a cross-country runner might slip at one particular point, and so on. It's how people handle themselves consistently over repeated trials that determines who are "champions" and who are not.
So if you want to believe that everything is RNG and you have no control over the situation, you can believe that. Or you can believe that there is RNG and you still have some control over the situation, and do what you can to excel. It's really your choice.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
A player of Hunter, one of the most overpowered class in the game, is blaming THE most underpowered class in the game. Yes, I played priest A LOT and every game is a goddamn challenge. Ask some high-ranked priest players.
A player of Hunter?? You realise most players use Hunter now and then? They only moan when they have to face it! I beat Hunters most times, I see nothing OP about them. The rush hunter can be frustrating but then so can rush Warlock/Warrior ...
I don't get people saying Priest in under powered, in fact I find that laughable! Slow is what they are, unimaginative and irritating ... but under powered? when they're using all YOUR best cards to play against you? lol.
The thing is, at first I thought secret hunters were interesting because you had to try to figure out what secret had been played, but the solution to that is so simple. You just attack to the face with the weakest thing you have. If its misdirection or freezing trap, you had the best case scenario, if its explosive trap it doesnt matter because there is no counterplay, and if its snake trap then you avoided proccing it by going to the face.
also, beating hunters pretty much comes down to "do you have taunt?" which is why Defender of Argus is so popular. It gives taunt in rush decks.
the people who say Hunters arn't broken are either hunter players who think they are amazing and don't want their "skill" plays to be nerfed, or they are just ignorant to the fact that the Hunter class has hurt this game considerably.
" I hate any class that I can't beat. "
^ that is what these threads are, basically.
It gets old. Doesn't matter which class the moaning is about.
I'm playing as Shaman, beat 2/3 hunters already today.
its not just about beating hunters, its also about being fun. Playing against hunter isnt fun.
Is it possible to ban a topic or at least pin one of these posts for continued discussion I seriously see one of these posts daily and its the same arguments over and over I would really enjoy seeing other topics able to get more attention.
Try to go above rank 10 with priest and talk to me again about how overpowered they are.
It's overpowered from a card budget standpoint. It does way more than its cost would indicate. The best 2 mana cost minions end up being around 5 total stats (2/3 or 3/2, some with additional fun), against 3 minions UtH gives you 6 total stats for the cost, with the possibility of scaling up to 14 total with the one lone card. And that's not even counting the value you can get when comboing it with Starving Buzzard, Kill Command, Timber Wolf etc. In short: it's overpowered. But as I said, most other hunter cards are underpowered. I would much prefer a more balanced class and a 4 cost UtH.
Equality is better balanced for its cost because of the enormous drawback of playing it when you have minions out. Paladins also entirely lack direct non-damage based removal, hence there's an actual need for the spell.