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Quote from pilantra »

Quote from Slowgod »

Freeze trap is broke, most of the time attacking a hunter hurts you and benefits them. It should be triggered on either attacking hero or minion, not both and it shouldn't add that 2 extra cost to replay it. Hunters mark should cost 3 mana or cut the targets health in half (rounded whatever) OR make the target take double damage. Little spiders, dogs, boars, etc cannot 1 shot a giant dragon or fire lord!

Or... it could just do whatever it does on WoW. Freeze your character on the board before engaging the attack.

Your idea wins.

Quote from Slowgod »

Quote from pilantra »

Quote from Slowgod »

Freeze trap is broke, most of the time attacking a hunter hurts you and benefits them. It should be triggered on either attacking hero or minion, not both and it shouldn't add that 2 extra cost to replay it. Hunters mark should cost 3 mana or cut the targets health in half (rounded whatever) OR make the target take double damage. Little spiders, dogs, boars, etc cannot 1 shot a giant dragon or fire lord!

Or... it could just do whatever it does on WoW. Freeze your character on the board before engaging the attack.

Your idea wins.

No - it really doesn't.  Freeze 1 character of your choice is a 1/2 mana effect. Charging someone 2 mana to freeze a character of their opponent's choice is horrifically bad value (even worse than Repentance, which is saying something).

I think when you look at a lot of the Hunter cards they're all extremely high value. Things like Houndmaster and Savannah Highmane are crazy amounts of value and when your opponents answer involves anymore than 1 minion they're most likely about to be hit by a combo.

Singular high value cards in combination with the combos are what make Hunter so good because often even if you don't have the combo it's possible to stall opponents long enough to get them. Not to mention opponents almost always have to clear a Hunter's board of beasts each turn of they're going to eat a Kill Command.

Will they get nerfed? I doubt it. I don't think Hunter needs to be nerfed personally. I mean take a look at Miracle Rogue. I've barely seen that this season and all it took was a couple of cards to change things around. Last season it was the only thing people talked about.

Hunter ran me to legend this season and the two most annoying cards to face were Unstable Ghoul and Loatheb. Run those and you'll be in good stead.

Hunters lose to a lot of control decks. Which is a popular archetype now with all these crazy deathrattles. What's the problem? People have gotten legend with things other than hunter you know? Guess they should look at control warrior too? Nerf armor? Priests healing/draw power? Etc etc

i understand what you are getting at but there is no draw power equal to that of the hunter now.. except maybe for the rouge.. persoally i dont think the draw power or utw is the problem exactly.. its more so the traps/secrets. like i said before the low cost and versitility of the hunter secrets is a scary thing.. that combined with the fact that only hunter can remove secrets.. well it makes the match ups hard.  its all a combination of thing that make the hunter so good right now.. secrets play into the eaglethorn bow, the hero power added over all the turns you cant do nothing, ice trap pretty much gives a whole turn advantage for 2 mana.. not counting the summoning sickness (4 turns in order to get to attack with that cast after you payed the mana twice.

im not sure hunter needs a nerf but maybe the addition of secret removal common cards.  

maybe the answer lies also in secret length... maybe there should be a turn limit  on how long each can stay in play.. at least this way you could sacrafice turns to play around them

secrets are just more prevalent and useful now.  very powerful honestly

the hunter is all built around it.. the bow gains durability from them, they cost low, mad scientist now fetches them, freezing trap costs the opponent a whole turn.. not to mention it actually makes the minion have 4 turns to attack (considering summoning sickness) there is 8 dmg from the hero ability right there while you try to get it back out.

the secrets at their low cost are powerful and versatile

something in the secret department and hunters will have to somewhat be altered.  if you have a class that the only real counter to it is the same class then you have an issue in balance.  i wont go as far as to say the hunter needs serious nerfing but something has to happen.  common secret removal, life span for secrets in play perhaps... each having so many turns before it goes away,  

the secrets are so good the hunter deck can function on nearly them alone and very few creatures the eagle thorn bow and hero power combined smacks 5 a turn.. its basically just stall the game till you unleash hounds... the current hunter trend doesnt even utilize the best beasts in its arsenal because the secret approach is so much better.  

its nothing to flip out about. they did indeed create a monster but you can expect this from all the powerful nax cards.. who knows another better combo of cards may arise.

This discussion on secrets is funny because I actually hate the secret version of the deck.  I find the mid-range version without secrets to be much better and more consistent. 

You people said the same thing about Miracle Rogue....

Just a couple of seasons ago; there wasn't hardly any hunters on the ladder whatsoever.. Why didn't you complain about Hunter then...? Now that Miracle Rogue isn't popular anymore and Hunter is the new FoTM; everyone is crying about hunters now... Grow up and enjoy the game already.. Stop whining about every deck and accept the fact that you just suck.

If Hunter gets nerf again, Miracle rogue will again top the tier, it's a never ending chains of events.

It's the bad card design overall, it's pretty hard to change stuff now.

I used to play Handlock, Then I took a steady shot to the knee.

Quote from Bearauder »

If Hunter gets nerf again, Miracle rogue will again top the tier, it's a never ending chains of events.

It's the bad card design overall, it's pretty hard to change stuff now.

 

Do you even know that Miracle Rouge was made popular because it's the best Mid-range Hunter counter deck? You are saying as if Hunter destroys Miracle Rogue which is just wrong. Besides there are lots of top tier decks out there which can potentially reach Legend. People are just lazy and netdeck the easiest/cheapest ones. All the Zoos from previous has jumped on the Hunter train.

Then why are people starting to ban Hunter instead of Rogue in recent tourney?

An easy fix to Hunter, Zoo, and Miracle being overplayed and annoying would be to introduce minions that passively make it so an enemy (or both players if fairness is an issue) can only draw one card a turn, which would be the card that they get at the start of the turn. There are cards like this in Might & Magic: Duel of the Champions (look up the Void Arbiter) and they work just fine. To get rid of the effect, one has to get rid of or silence the minion. It'd open up some new playstyles as well.

Either way, card draw is at the core of all of the complaints concerning these decks. If multicard card draw were taken down a notch, it would probably fix a lot of the problems people have.

Quote from DeusExLamina »

An easy fix to Hunter, Zoo, and Miracle being overplayed and annoying would be to introduce minions that passively make it so an enemy (or both players if fairness is an issue) can only draw one card a turn, which would be the card that they get at the start of the turn. There are cards like this in Might & Magic: Duel of the Champions (look up the Void Arbiter) and they work just fine. To get rid of the effect, one has to get rid of or silence the minion. It'd open up some new playstyles as well.

Either way, card draw is at the core of all of the complaints concerning these decks. If multicard card draw were taken down a notch, it would probably fix a lot of the problems people have.

New mage minion that has "Your opponent's max hand size reduced by 3 or 4" would be very interesting.

lol.. freezing trap might as well freeze you at your computer screen because it can, in certain scenario cost you a whole turn.. not to mention:

turn one play minion, turn two attack (freezing trap), turn three play minion again, turn 4 attack

thats 4 turns later for your cost of 2.5 times the original mana cost.. to benefit from your play.

the real problem in this is however that it gives the hunter turn advantages while you are recasting and waiting summoning sickness.. and while you recast you mana isn't used for anything else.. so in theory... it steals at least one turn from you entirely.. not just the creature.

good thing though.. i haven't seen them rampant like i was seeing them..  and half the ones i run into are running the midrange hunter with no or few traps... 

the no scientist mid range hunter that uses exclusively the freezing traps are in my opinion the most threat and not the trap hunters

on the flip side to this however.. i have seen in rare cases freezing trap backfire... for example.. send back a Defender of Argus or other battle cry minion that can turn the game around...

hunters mark, boar.. scary.. sucks to have a 8/8 taunt taken out like that lol.. 

the defense for hunters is to keep only a few big creatures out.. 1 or 2 however.. deadly shot rapes you and hunters mark takes down that aproach too.. hunters are very versatile atm..

im still on the fence on the question of if they are overpowered though atm.. certain decks can take them down and there are some other very powerful decks out there that rival it.. paladin, priest and warrior are getting a lot of play..

for me today i have ran into a lot of warriors.. which to me is about an equally annoying deck.. not taking anything from it.. i dunno just annoying and drawn out.. i hate long games

i just wish people would be more original and use less of the cookie cutter decks.. lol

yea i did similar early in nax when Weblord came out.  everyone thought it was a shit card but i seen potential.  Everyone was running battle cry minions as the majority of their deck or at least a decent percentage.. so i crafted a druid deck with weblords that slowed them to a hault.. and because the druids class minions do things when played without battle cry it was a perfect fit for that class.. worked well

now though battlecry has taken a seat to deathrattle..  i can't wait till they come out with a card that effects deathrattle in some way. I would like to see a card that reads "remove deathrattle from all minions and destroy them"

but anyways.. yea you can pretty much make a deck to beat any deck.

lol is it just me or is there a pool of about 3 widely used popular decks right now that are annoying as hell..  i hate playing drawn out games.. its just a peeve of mine.. warrior annoys me more than hunter.

for hunters i think if  Buzzard was changed to "draw a card when friendly beast dies" it would help out a bit. esspecially on the Uth combo.  atleast if they didnt have say the wolf.. well they would have to throw a few at you first in order to get the draw.   Or maybe change the text on card instead to read "when you summon a beast from your hand draw a card"  its just a simple tweak but could help out a lot.  

UtH strong enough by itself esspecially when paired with a wolf.. having the draw tossed in is overkill

I hate Hunter as a theme (or I just don't find it interesting at all), so I may be biased here, but I think some changes need to happen. I don't see such a big issue with Flare, but I do with Starving Buzzard and Hunter's Mark.

Starving Buzzard, as it's been suggested, could be "Draw a card when a friendly beast dies", which also fits well with that card "theme" (beast dies, Buzzard eats it -> draw... lulz), and that would tone down a bit its über-insta-power, while still being really good (you'll just need to use your brain a bit more and shift turns, woah). In fact, sometimes could be even "better" like that if you already have some beasts on board (pre-buzzard), so you summon it and kill'em all -> draws. But at least that requires some previous control of the game and you can't make that absolutely stupid miracle turns with Unleash the flowers and fresh mojito party by the face (now you gotta sacrifice the doges before you draw -> tone down the crazy synergy).

And about Hunter's Mark, I just find it so silly at 0 mana cost (and I know I'm not the only one :D). Jesus Christ on a pogo and holy macaroni. With 1 mana cost it would still be great, while not being pure madness.

Sorry for my terrible Englishzor and have a nice day, except if you play hunter. Then go hunt. And explode. Plzzz <3

Quote from pilantra »

About Hunter's Mark it could be ok if it had any drawback, like Naturalize or Soulfire. It's pure win to have them there, without any issues on removing a big threat of your opponent. A discard would be ok, just like Soulfire.

Balance wise that could be in the right direction, but precisely the discard mechanic is very warlockish and doesn't fit really well with the "hunter's mark theme" (at least imo). I think that giving it a "real mana cost" would be enough, so it wouldn't be so stupidly easy to play with any combo. And as said, I think that with a 1 mana cost it would still be one of the best removal cards out there.

Just my two cents :3

Quote from pilantra »

About Hunter's Mark it could be ok if it had any drawback, like Naturalize or Soulfire. It's pure win to have them there, without any issues on removing a big threat of your opponent. A discard would be ok, just like Soulfire.

It does have a drawback... it does not actually kill anything all it does it make it easier to kill. It still requires a way to deal damage.  So in essence it's 2 cards to kill 1 card. Similar to Soulfire; however, the second card is not random, but Soulfire has the benefit of being able to deal damage to heros and not requiring an active/charge creature, making it less situational. 

Quote from LegacymtgsalvationUser8137 »

Quote from pilantra »

About Hunter's Mark it could be ok if it had any drawback, like Naturalize or Soulfire. It's pure win to have them there, without any issues on removing a big threat of your opponent. A discard would be ok, just like Soulfire.

It does have a drawback... it does not actually kill anything all it does it make it easier to kill. It still requires a way to deal damage.  So in essence it's 2 cards to kill 1 card. Similar to Soulfire; however, the second card is not random, but Soulfire has the benefit of being able to deal damage to heros and not requiring an active/charge creature, making it less situational. 

Well, Execute says "Hello".