Hearthpwn

My experience this season is predominantly from rank 3-4 (I'm usually legend, but I've been trying a lot of stuff this season and haven't been in town for a weekend yet, hence the meh ranking), so I think it's indicative of how matchups should go. Did you have a negative matchup against anything besides Miracle on your way to legend?

Miracle beats Midrange Hunter and is a great ladder choice once again, I agree with that. I've never had an issue against any sort of Druid with Hunter, especially the version that plays little dorks for me to Unleash on. Token Druid is like Shaman without all the great removal. I haven't played enough Hunter vs Priest to make an informed opinion there.

The problem is that in tournaments you can just ban Rogue and rampage with Hunter (the recent Reynad vs Savz Showmatch, for example).

Quote from Piterik »

Savannah Highmane got more stats Than Cairne which is legendary.

 

So odd and so true.  6/5 + 2/2 + 2/2 compared to the 4/5 + 4/5 Bodies.  Odd, considering that King Krush doesn't get any play ever....besides the Webspinner pull

Quote from DeusExLamina »

Easy fixes to buzzard + unleashed: 

Limit Buzzard to 1 draw
           or
Change it to draw when a beast dies

The latter would be more fair in general. It would force them not to rely on the combo and draw a ridiculous amount of cards from just summoning the hounds. It would also still keep a decent draw mechanic for the class. It also makes way more sense from a logical standpoint: buzzards feast on the dead or dying.

But if they used draw when a beast dies then it would be worthless since its such a fragile body.  The draw would only be available when the opposition had a full board where you can smash the hounds into them.  Or attempt to play multiple beasts hope they dont get cleared then Buzzard and sac them which again makes it a bad card

My solution would be: Change Buzzard from "when you summon a beast draw a card" to "Draw a card when beast card played from your hand", so the summon-a-beast spells won't trigger it. They'll still have a decent drawing potential, considering how many low cost beasts they have, but this change won't allow them cycle through their deck like crazy and you won't be punished THAT HARD when you play more then 2 minions, so you will have some space for actions.

At this point, I don't think Blizzard is going to change the text on any cards except in conjunction with the release of new material.

Instead of changing Starving Buzzard

• I expect them to give other classes more card-draw options
• I expect they will introduce a neutral who hampers the ability to draw more than 1 card/turn

As for Flare

• I think they are going to reduce its effectiveness, but that they will give Hunters another card in the same vein to make up the difference.
• Other classes will probably get some anti-secret cards, but Hunter will most likely remain the best (unless they decide to make trap removal a Rogue thing)

Quote from LightsOutAce »

My experience this season is predominantly from rank 3-4 (I'm usually legend, but I've been trying a lot of stuff this season and haven't been in town for a weekend yet, hence the meh ranking), so I think it's indicative of how matchups should go. Did you have a negative matchup against anything besides Miracle on your way to legend?

Miracle beats Midrange Hunter and is a great ladder choice once again, I agree with that. I've never had an issue against any sort of Druid with Hunter, especially the version that plays little dorks for me to Unleash on. Token Druid is like Shaman without all the great removal. I haven't played enough Hunter vs Priest to make an informed opinion there.

The problem is that in tournaments you can just ban Rogue and rampage with Hunter (the recent Reynad vs Savz Showmatch, for example).

 I had issues with Token Druid and Priest. I probably only played Paladin 2 or 3 times from rank 5 to legendary so I can't comment there.  I played a lot of control Warrior and you have to play that matchup right to win it. Then of course the mirror is close to a toss up. I also saw no Shaman so I am not sure how that would go. 

Quote from matt333222 »

Quote from wafffles43 »

Quote from matt333222 »

The true issue is what the 2nd poster, Teal, cited. There's way too much cheap, efficient card draw in this game - not just UTH. 

But it's a fundamental decision they made, I don't see how they can go back on letting a hero power exist that does this. They can't eally nerf Auctioneer/UTH that bad so long as one class can draw cards literally at will every turn. 

I'm more of a fan of things like Mana Tide Totem, Northshire Cleric, or even Ancient of Lore's health v. cards decision. There's some gameplay element involved that allows you to cycle, instead of it jut being almost automatic like in the case of Lock hero power, UTH, Auctioneer. And it takes sloppy gameplay on the part of your opponent to allow a Sham or Priest's card draw to snowball out of control. 

A future card game to compete with this one could use this lesson. It's probably too late for this one.

IMO Auctioneer is better card design than Mana Tide, it's cheesy 0-cost spells that are the real problem.  But no, erring on the side of too much/too cheap card draw is definitely preferable, especially in a card game designed to last only a few minutes and be really fast-paced, than to err on the side of you play A I play B you play C I play D 1-card turns with slower draw.

Erring on more draw is fine, but it needs to be based on something your opponent has some chance to mitigate - or something you have to execute a clever strategy upon in order to achieve. Like whirlwind into an Acolyte is another example of what I think it should be. Watching your opponent draw 3-4-5 cards in a single turn, or an extra card every turn, and they didn't even do anything special to earn that reward - it's infuriating.

It contributes to HS having such a high percentage of games where you either auto-win or auto-lose. The games where tough decisions decide who wins - while there's enough to separate the bad/good/great players - are the best games you play, and they're too few in number. I'd trade match speed for match quality any day of the week.

Like I still love HS, I'm not going to quit or anything, but it could be so much more if Miracle card draws took more strategy/luck/planning to achieve.

Well that's my point, I think there is strategy in the notion of saving up your spells for Auctioneer when those spells cost mana, it's the fact that 0-cost spells exist that makes it cheesy.  I'm even fine with turn 5 Gadgetzan Auctioneer-> Coin -> Deadly Poison because you saved your coin and Deadly Poison is a reasonable card with low (but not no) cost; it's when Preparation allows not just one but two free draws that it's dumb.

As for hunter, there is something to be said for playing minimal minions until he plays an non-optimal unleash out of desperation. I agree that a balanced tuning would probably have a 2/2 Starving Buzzard that draws on beast death, which isn't even that bad because many times hounds just suicide anyway, I just think people act like there's a gun to their head forcing them to play 3+ minions before the hunter has played the combo.

Quote from Sonserf369 »

I don't think so. From my experience playing the class, Hunter can be annoying, but it relies on card combos in order to deal with threats efficiently, as well it tends to have some really terrible starts. Some games depend completely on you drawing UTH or you insta loose. There's also been quite a few games where I draw my whole deck and I'll still have no answer to my opponents board. So no, I don't think it will be nerfed.

I agree with this completely as someone who has mained hunter for the past few seasons. Some games you get really lucky and top deck exactly what you need while cycling, some games you won't even pull a buzzard or UTH. I wouldn't say hunter is anymore OP than any other class based on it not always having answers, and it can easily be countered. It's pretty common to have a hand full of one drops against a control druid or handlock, which just means instconcede. And I don't know why people keep saying that's all they see on the ladder. I just went from rank 17 to 10 and didn't see a single other hunter player. Just because a few people get paired against a lot of hunters doesn't mean that everyone else does. EDIT* I also played against a lot of priests that didn't play more than one minion at a time and I was stuck with a completely useless UTH buzzard combo in my hand all game. If you know how to play hunter than you can easily counter it leaving most of their hand useless.
I would be sad to see hunter nerfed again, and again, and again...

I can't wait until you load up 'Hunterstone' again, and hear the innkeeper shout 'Boys! Look who it it!' or 'Welcome back!' 

For your info, before Naxx, Hunter was almost non-existent in ladder. I met less than 10 Hunters the entire season. Why didn't any of you complain about Hunter class card back then? The fact that Hunter got popular again is solely due to Mad Scientist (and partly Reynad) which has nothing to do with Hunter class. If you want to balance things correctly, better nerf Mad Scientist and not Hunter class cards !

Personally I would change UtH to summon a fix number of doggies, like snake trap. That way you could still get a nice value out of the hunter combo and your opponent could push the pressure without fearing losing the game. Also it would be an upgrade against classes who do not play many creatures.

Can't wait to see the results at the end of season when the top 50 players are all running the same hunter deck, will be so much fun to watch them battle each other. Not.

People are ridiculous, Hunter had no changes whatsover (minus Naxx now), everyone was complaining that Hunter was the worst class, and I quote: "absolutely trash, not even worth picking up".

Suddenly one or two guys started wrecking everyone with Hunter and the 7 year old crowd went "OH SNAP, HUNTER IS THE SHIZNIT, QUICK HOP ON THE HUNTER TRAIN".

Blizzard doesn't ruin games, the players themselves do, they will always find a freaking reason to complain about anything. If it ain't Hunter it's Mage, if it isn't Mage it's Priest, if it isn't Priest it's Rogue... just shut up already.

I don't share decks a lot, but here:

Enjoy the free wins.

God theres a lot of stupid people commenting on this post.... Not everyone plays hunter a lot of people top 100 + plays other decks its just that hunter is the "flavour of the month" so people play hunter but not EVERYONE. Hearthstone is a game were you can't just throw some cards you like in a deck and win over 60% which it seems is what you guys want it to be like. you need to know the meta and play decks that are good in the current meta and this season hunter is the best deck for the current meta. If there were no meta and people would play what ever random deck they wanted the game would be a lot less skilled on ladder because you would never know what cards you had to play around. There needs to be some what predictable what your gonna play against. I don't understand why people complain so much its not like it dosent take skill the deck actually takes skill to play against if your losing more than 60 % against hunter your doing something wrong or your playing a bad deck....

Quote from Slowgod »

Can't wait to see the results at the end of season when the top 50 players are all running the same hunter deck, will be so much fun to watch them battle each other. Not.

I have played several games in the last 2 days against players ranked 100+ on the NA server... I saw a Shaman, a Priest and a Warrior no hunters from any of the top legendary players.  I see a lot of hunter and Zoo when I get paired against players in the 1000-400 range though. 

Yeah I don't know since I'm stuck between 3-5 trying to get legend with my warrior and I refuse to join the hunter or zoolock masses. I did however watch Trump get trumped by the Reynad hunter deck. Trump was like lvl 20ish and got destroyed by a fresh legendary hunter. I want some sort of neutral secret killer assassin card that can attack without triggering secrets and destroy a random one if it deals damage to the hero. He/she would be like 1/3... It could start with stealth until it gets flared off ;)

Quote from Starke »

People are ridiculous, Hunter had no changes whatsover (minus Naxx now), everyone was complaining that Hunter was the worst class, and I quote: "absolutely trash, not even worth picking up".

Suddenly one or two guys started wrecking everyone with Hunter and the 7 year old crowd went "OH SNAP, HUNTER IS THE SHIZNIT, QUICK HOP ON THE HUNTER TRAIN".

Blizzard doesn't ruin games, the players themselves do, they will always find a freaking reason to complain about anything. If it ain't Hunter it's Mage, if it isn't Mage it's Priest, if it isn't Priest it's Rogue... just shut up already.

I don't share decks a lot, but here:

Enjoy the free wins.

 Druid decks are cool, I haven't played them much, but I definitely regret disenchanting my gold Ancient of War :( looks like a nice balanced deck though.

Quote from szabozalan »

Personally I would change UtH to summon a fix number of doggies, like snake trap. That way you could still get a nice value out of the hunter combo and your opponent could push the pressure without fearing losing the game. Also it would be an upgrade against classes who do not play many creatures.

And what would that fixed number be?  Two?  You mention Snake Trap, so three?  UtH usually is three or less already; it's your own fault if you play 4+ minions against hunter before UtH has been used.  And of course, there's always the chance the hunter is desperate and uses a 2 or even 1 minion UtH, so fixing it at 3 would almost be a buff except against idiots.  And I hate hunter, but I don't think fixing it at two would be fair so lets not even go there, especially if the argument becomes two 2/2 dogs vs. X 1/1 doggies.

Freeze trap is broke, most of the time attacking a hunter hurts you and benefits them. It should be triggered on either attacking hero or minion, not both and it shouldn't add that 2 extra cost to replay it. Hunters mark should cost 3 mana or cut the targets health in half (rounded whatever) OR make the target take double damage. Little spiders, dogs, boars, etc cannot 1 shot a giant dragon or fire lord!

Quote from Slowgod »

Freeze trap is broke, most of the time attacking a hunter hurts you and benefits them. It should be triggered on either attacking hero or minion, not both and it shouldn't add that 2 extra cost to replay it. Hunters mark should cost 3 mana or cut the targets health in half (rounded whatever) OR make the target take double damage. Little spiders, dogs, boars, etc cannot 1 shot a giant dragon or fire lord!

Both of those cards you mentioned are card disadvantage cards already. Freeze Trap is always -1 cards unless it hits a buff (like Blessing of Kings) or pumps a bow. Those are very narrow situations.  It's easy to play around freeze trap.  

Hunter's Mark is card disadvantage about 50% of the time because unless you use it with a spider, explosive trap, or hound you are spending both the mark and the creature to kill it. 

Neither of those cards is broken. They are both very situational.  They just happen to be very good in those situations. 

"Hearthstone is a game were you can't just throw some cards you like in a deck and win over 60% which it seems is what you guys want it to be like." You kinda just described zoo lock tho :)