*Updated* C'Thun Ramp (Anti-Meta)
- Last updated May 4, 2016 (Old Gods)
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Wild
- 18 Minions
- 12 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Ramp Druid
- Crafting Cost: 8180
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 4/21/2016 (Explorers)
- seksireturns
- Registered User
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- 7
- 13
- 22
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Battle Tag:
Seksi#1158
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Region:
US
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Total Deck Rating
578
5/3/16 UPDATE: The deck has gone through major revisions.
-Mire Keeper x2, -The Black Knight, -Emperor Thaurissan
+Disciple of C'Thun, +Mind Control Tech, +Fandral Staghelm, +Slyvanas Windrunner
RECENT CHANGES:
First off, I wanted to determine the best removal setup between BGH, TBK, and Mulch. I tried running two of the three simultaneously and each one on their own. A single removal in Mulch filled the role as the most flexible choice. While BGH and TBK are very good when utilized, they were often dead cards. Mulch provides a way to deal with any threat including one that comes earlier which makes the card useful against Control and Aggro.
Next, I ended up taking out Mire Keepers completely. I explained more below, but I believe the deck to be significantly better since this change. With two four drops gone, I now had room to tailor the deck to better combat the decks we have a hard time with; namely Warlock Zoo and Aggro Shaman.
Mind Control Tech was added and almost always gets value, I love this tech card. Even against Control decks you will find value at times late game. Next, a Disciple of C'Thun was added (in addition to the 2x Twilight Elders). This change provides an additional C'Thun booster, a reliable early game drop against Aggro, and a decent pick up any time to combo with your damaging spells.
Now that the deck is improved against Aggro, I wanted to get the most value out of the higher costing cards. Emperor Thaurissan was cut and Sylvanas Windrunner took its spot. Emperor is great, but his value isn't as great as Sylvanas, especially against Control. She gets amazing value against Control decks and even more so now that silences are rare. With this change, we have a big number of late game threats to deal with.
Lastly, Fandral is back! With two four drops out, I needed one more four drop. A general rule of thumb for Druid is to always have at least three 4-mana creatures to effectively utilize a turn 2 Wild Growth. This slot could be a Senjin Shieldmasta, or even a Klaxxi Amber-Weaver if you must, but I like Fandral here. He acts as a pseudo-taunt, players will scramble or spend removal on him. If he does get value, its great. Wild Growth, Living Roots, Nourish, Druid of the Claw, Ancient of War. Plenty of value here, though it's not essential to the deck at all. He adds another element of strategy to a well rounded deck.
I hope you enjoy the changes, let me know how the deck serves you! I am constantly trying to come up with the best possible Ramp Druid. I really like this list, if you have any questions, please ask, and as always I appreciate the comments and ideas.
MULLIGAN:
The Mulligan for Druid is one of the most important by class. You want to hard mulligan for Wild Growth and Innervate. Never keep Wrath unless you already have a great hand (Innervate + Twilight Elder, for example). If you keep a Wrath, you will often be playing from behind even if you remove an early threat. I will almost always keep a Twilight Elder. If you do get a Wild Growth, you can keep a 4-drop, or a 5-drop with Coin. Living Roots is another good card to keep in most situations. A turn 1 Living Roots is strong, keeping Living Roots when you have the coin may or may not be a good choice depending on your opponent and the rest of your hand.
This deck mulligans pretty well because you have 8 cards to look for in Wild Growth, Innervate, Twilight Elder and Living Roots. Try to ramp efficiently; if you have two innervates, rarely should you use both in one turn, spread them out for two efficient turns. Never coin out a Wild Growth on turn 1 unless you have a 3-drop to play the following turn. If you don't, save your coin and simply play Wild Growth on turn 2.
EXCLUDED CARDS:
Mire Keeper: The most recent cut to this list. At first glance this card seemed awesome, but I have found it has underperformed. The ability to ramp from 4 mana into 6 is cool, but hardly needed. It's the initial ramp from Wild Growth that is most beneficial. His other option to play a 3/3 and 2/2 for 4 mana is pretty good, but also didn't have much impact. It is a bad card against Aggro, and not a great card against Control either. In addition, it was basically a dead card to draw late. Cutting the Mire Keepers have led to a deck transformation and improvement.
Emperor Thaurissan: One of the best cards in the game ended up getting the axe. With the removal of Mire Keepers, the 6-mana slot is no longer as needed. Thaurissan was useful, but generally didn't have as much impact compared to Sylvanas or Dark Arrakoa. The subtraction of Thaurissan led to the addition of Sylvanas which greatly improves our matchups against Control.
The Black Knight: TBK was useful sometimes, but still too situational. Big Game Hunter suffered the same fate. After testing, Mulch was ultimately the best card to deal with threats because it can be used against any creature. You can cheaply remove anything with Mulch, plus it can be used earlier as a tempo play against a pesky minion you couldn't otherwise deal with.
Big Game Hunter: After testing, BGH is not worth the slot anymore. The meta doesn't have many targets now that Dr. Boom and Molten Giant are gone. While he is effective against an opposing C'Thun, Mulch looks to be the better and more flexible removal.
Beckoner of Evil: This is a C'Thun deck, you don't run Beckoner of Evil!? Right. I believe this is a common mistake that players will make. You shouldn't ever run a two drop minion in Druid because Wild Growth is always the superior turn 2 play. In addition, Dark Arrakoa provides +3/+3 to make up for the +2/+2 a Beckoner of Evil would provide.
Darnassus Aspirant: This card seemed great on paper but it turned out to be overrated. The reason behind this is that Druid should never run a 2-drop. Wild Growth is always the best turn 2 play. If you do play a Aspirant on turn two and it is killed, you are left with an awkward turn 3 play.
Keeper of the Grove: This card was so good. I understand why it got a nerf, though couldn't be a 2/3 instead? It's stats are poor now, as a silence its strictly worse then a Spellbreaker or Owl. You can choose to deal 2 damage against a Knife Juggler or Sorcerer's Apprentice for example, but then you are left with a measly body for 4 mana. At first, I cut one. After Fandral was announced, I cut the second. If silence becomes a must, he will find his way back into the deck as a one-of, but I don't think this deck will require it.
Klaxxi Amber-Weaver: At first glance, this card seems cool. A potential 4/10 for 4 mana! However, it does not give any boosting stats to C'Thun. Since we don't run Beckoner of Evil, we can't afford to play a minion that relies on C'Thun having 10+ stats so early. You wouldn't love to play this creature on curve for that reason. In addition, the 4/10 stats don't do much on the board since they do not have taunt, spell damage, or boosting ability. A 4/10 won't have immediate impact against an aggro deck or control.
Forbidden Ancient: This card is pretty cool, it could help fill a turn that you don't have a better play. However, I would rather include cards that always have a high impact and don't depend on a poor turn's situation. That being said, it is worth testing some more.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
Out value your opponent by cheating your mana turns and playing efficient cards. Apply pressure whenever possible by attacking their face and let them trade into your taunts. Don't rely on C'Thun as an ultimate finisher, but rather an additional big threat to go long with Ragnaros the Firelord and your other 6 and 7 drops.
I see the updates you've made and I'm curious about the statistics of your wins against classes. I commented on this thread last season with my changes I made and last season I got to rank 5 from around 10 effortlessly (2 losses). You have 5 cards different now from what I'm playing.
maybe change 1/2 Druid of the Claw with Crazed Worshipper?
Thanks for the update mate,
Playing a slightly different version from yours now, but i'm on EU so could be different meta. Started to understand the deck a bit better now, i know what i was doing wrong before. In my head i wanted to play the deck like a combo deck, so wasn't really concentrating on being as efficient as possible with my plays, which landed me in trouble with the lack of card draw. Now i'm thinking more ahead with what i have and making more considered plays instead of just stalling for my combo its working a lot lot better.
Agreed on the Mulch thing, not having that crucial removal has lost me a few games now, so included mulch. I have also included a healing touch into my deck, as having it against agro has helped me survive into late game with bad draws, allowing me to curve into my taunts with enough hp to ride it out.
Went from 12 to 6 tonight so happy now that i have the playstyle working, look forward to more updates from yourself, GJ.
This deck was my first proper WoG deck (I was making bad hombrews before this) and I just went from rank 18 1star (after going back n forth from 18-16 for a while) to rank 14 2 star on an 8:0 streak. then lost to a shaman w rarer cards (he also started the game w 2 tunnel troggs, 1 nerubian prophet from mulligan, drew into 2 flametongue totems and hallazeal and feral wolves. mainly luck imho, I didn't get the best draws with C'thun and AoW coming back from mulligan.) VERY NEARLY ALMOST lost to a freeze mage, except he got impatient and used his burst reach spells before alexstrazaing. he took me down to like 18 from 30 with spells then alexstraza'd himself to bring him from 13-15 so he is just bad at freeze mage. need 2 seperate high dmg spells to deal with frost nova doomsayer, like starfire and living roots or wrath, and only had a starfire each time he used the combo so that wasn't fun, lost about 40 statpoints total because of it lol
Took out BGH for psychotron (don't have bgh, figured psychotron is pretty great if it is played following t2-3 wild growth to deal with midgame minions.)
Took out Ragnaros for Doomcaller (planning on crafting Rag later, until then doomcaller works as a big body, a C'thun buffer and in the rare case, a second C'thun. I don't run him so that I can bring C'thun back to life, I run him as a big minion that buffs C'thun.)
Took out Twin emp for another AoW, and tbh I don't feel like it was a bad decision. sometimes I don't draw into arrakoas or c'thun's chosens and my c'thun is under 10 atk so twin emp would be bad value on the turn i need it played, AoW is consistently good. would seriously consider AoW over twin emp even if i had emp, or would find a different way to slot emp in.)
Took out TBK for a starfire, and like the above sub, I'm very happy with this. deals with emperor thaurissans, darkshire councilmen, the new priest 5 health stuff, master of evolution and trading.
If you don't have those cards, I think you found suitable replacements. Another card to consider is Mind Control Tech. MCT provides a way to swing the games that you would normally lose (when an opponent gets 4+ minions on the board, as Druid lacks much of a board clear).
ended up crafting rag (he was my priority craft for when i next had 1600 dust since I realised Id have 3200 after WoG) so I took out the doomcaller for rag as fitting with the deck. I do have 2 MCT but I was considering whether to use them or not and I feel very little of the time would it be needed, might try around with adding starfall or MCT for the psychotron (just rotating it around every now n then and deciding what I like best). I feel swipe is very strong as aoe, but pseudo reliant on the azure drakes lategame for spell dmg to actually clear the board well, so I want to try the reliable (and flexible) starfall to see how it plays. If it's really good I might even take out a swipe for a second starfall and the psychotron for the first
There were several games I played where I wish I had Savage Roar to close out the opponent. The deck is already amazing, but would it be even better with a single copy of Savage Roar? I can't think of what to pull out though from your list.
Have you tested this? If yes what results?
Also I tried replacing BGH with Mulch. It's not that much of a dead card that clogs your hand like BGH, and it offers a much larger tempo swing when played on turn 10 for example. You can follow up with a massive 6 or 7 drop, whereas you only have 5 mana left after playing BGH.
ArtemisSzeto,
I too am trying Mulch instead of a BGH. I am a fan of it as well. You can Mulch any target for tempo, and it is useful versus the aggro/midrange decks as well. As far as Savage Roar, I agree with your thinking. I haven't tested it yet, but it has been on my mind. Let us know if you do test it and I'll do the same.
I played some, and the games were a lot smoother than my video I posted here. I did recorded a match against a Shaman, but I won't spam with more links here tho.
This is a fun deck (I really like The Black Knight update), and I hope it conts to get updates in the future :)
Great, thanks for your update. It is a fun deck, though I am running into some difficulty playing Shaman, Zoo, and Mage every game. There will definitely be an update very soon! Stay tuned.
Yeah mages have always been a good counter to the Druid :(
I don't really see room for that card. This deck has a way of dealing with a lot of aggro through swipe and taunts that they usually trade into.
For the same reason it has a low amount of cards that buff cthun, so you don't insta concede unless you pull a cthun lethal also doom caller works on control warrior because you can stall forever with the armor stacking, too slow for midrange.
Dead_MAX,
Doomcaller is an interesting card. He has great stats since BGH isn't around much (7/9), provides a C'Thun boost and can revive C'Thun in the late control match ups. I tested him, but found that it was very rare to use his revive ability (The game is finished before you would drop C'Thun, have it removed, and revive it). Ragnaros is the MVP in this deck, so it's hard to find anything to replace his slot.
Believe it or not, I am considering cutting one Mire Keeper for that reason. Late game, it is a bad card to draw, and early game a 3/3 and 2/2 don't trade that well and may not make much of a difference against the best decks.
I want to make Fandral work too! It is good theory crafting. Stay tuned for the latest update and discussion.
i don't have Sylvanas Windrunner or Big Game Hunter. Don't have the dust for them. So i just replaced them with 2 x Klaxxi Amber-Weaver. Seems good. Lost to a rogue because of bad hand and 2 saps but won my next against control/midrange? shaman.
Sylvanas is a card you will want to have since it will never be out of standard. Definitely get it as soon as possible. Klaxxi Amber-Weaver is a good card but I dont like it in this deck.. Most of the time, you wont be able to get value out of it turn 4 and if you are behind when you can get value out of it it becomes too slow and you will be punished for it.
And 4 mana for a 4/5 vanilla card on turn 4 isn't that good when you can use it for swipe when you are behind. This deck already is already minion heavy to deal with the board and to maintain it having 4 cards at 4 mana slows you down a little.
I have been playing the deck a bit, and I'm having a good time. One issue does come up tho. The lack of card draw, and here is a match against a friend (playing a Mid Range Shaman deck). It was a very close game, but card draw was a big issue during the match etc
Well, that and I was a bit too greedy with the ramp...and some misplays (not killing the spell damage totem for one)...my greed cost me tho haha.
I recorded this before your latest update with The Black Knight, and I look forward to adding him to the deck.
Card draw isnt a mechanic that wins games. People don't really understand that concept. The only reason it was valuable in the last meta before expansion was a lot of cards were really good with card draw effects and worth having. Nourish satisfies the card draw because you want to use it when you are ahead or ramping up your mana so you get it discounted.
Wrath also helps with card draw. You dont use wrath for 3 damage unless you need it to clear something that would otherwise but you really behind in the game.
Thanks for the helpful information, and tips, SteezyRen! :)