Hearthpwn

Quote from SpelerHS >>

Quote from ArgentumEmperio >>

Yes because its a good brawl with a rather interesting take on standard constructed.

I could even see this being made into a seperate game mode entirely assuming one just cut the prizes to be lesser and also cut the gold cost to enter in half (in order to be representative of the rewards).

Folks complain about "Oh my god... a tavern brawl that I don't want to play!" welcome to the point of tavern brawls that all aren't for you.

"Cashgrab from blizzard" no because that's not once again how economy works, is this a way to provide even more funding for Blizzard? Yes and no much like how Arena is quite a good place to build up a card collection, gold and dust for free-to-play players, this is just a high-end level of that.

"Oh my god, constructed, rng! Not fair" even less this because the intelligent will do what they can to wait to enter (unless they got a metric fuck ton of gold saved up) and try to estimate how the brawl meta will look like before going in there and going 8+ wins until they aren't allowed to play more of the tavern brawl!

"But its predator..." no its not predatory because its a choice to enter where as its a steep entry fee which means that folks are less likely to go in there unless they genuinely want to and in an era of freedom... this isn't a predatory action since you can make a concious decision to enter or not to enter. Here I will claim consumer responsiblity over consumer stupidity.

"But... but... free pack?" Tavern brawls are designed to introduce, test and really be the playground for the folks behind Hearthstone to test mechanics and features and make prototypes. This is an excellent way to test a tournament mode in Hearthstone and how it could work and what the rewards would be statisically likely to be around.

"..." Yes I make perfect sense, yes I will recieve alot of hate for this but frankly... stop whining and learn to think more critically than 'But I can't get stuff for free now, I actually have to pay attention and do my best to do well!'. The only evidence I need for this claim is how many people disliked the chess brawl because 'it was too difficult because I had to think'.

Summary of the community outlash against this brawl: unjustifed, stupid, morally wrong (because of all the lies going around), unbelivable and expected because Hearthpwn is a pile of trash when it comes down to accepting facts over biased bullshit. Something that folks prefer because... "it's too difficult to think".

 You're right in saying that no one is forced to do this brawl and I also agree with you when you say that Blizzard should not be handing gold out to everyone in an easy way. However, the risk is not even close to being worth the reward and this has very little do with "learning how to play". 

I basically reach top 500 legend every season and although it might sound arrogant, I consider myself to be a good player. However, I can guarantee you that I won't be playing this game mode. I personally do not see how this mode will be any fun, considering that basically everyone will pick the decks with the highest win rates meaning that this brawl will be even less diverse than normal standard ladder. Also, as pointed out before, there is no reason to play this for the reward. I am a fan of high risk/high reward, but the best decks have an average win rate of just over 50%. Reaching the breakeven point is already very difficult and requires a good amount of luck.  The chance to get 12 wins, even for the best players in the world, is so incredibly small that it is basically just gambling as others have said. Getting 12 wins in this brawl is WAY harder than getting 12 wins in arena.

If it is true what you say and they introduce this brawl just as a test for a possible tournament mode, then it makes more sense. Still, the entry price should be lowered or the rewards should be increased.

 

Quote from Notsofluffybunny >>

I think another welcome bundle would be a little much, considering it was already generous compared to what $10 usually gets you.  That being said, it would be nice if the reward was a bit closer to the actual entry value, but that's not how tournaments typically work.  Let's face it, this brawl just isn't for most of us.

Even as a high-legend player (I try not to brag about my credentials at all but I think it's relevant here) that's been top 50 with homebrew non-meta decks (which are exactly the types of deck that would probably perform well in a mode like this) I'm really disappointed.

I've been hoping for a mode like this for a really long time, but the reward structure is REALLY unappealing.  It's not the cost, it's not format, it's JUST the reward structure.  In arena, even a "bad" run is acceptable.  Worst case, you get a pack and some gold, dust, or a card for 150 gold.  The worst case in this instance is MUCH worse.  Not to mention, arena and standard work very differently.  

It's easy for a good player to average a good win rate in arena because of the random draft format.  Constructed is much more rock-paper-scissors, and long winning streaks will be much harder because of counters.  Top arena players routinely average 70%+ win rate, while top legend players rarely even top 60%.  There are differences in how you're matched (arena gets harder as you go but starts easily, ranked is obviously harder at legend and allows you to keep playing once hitting it, where arena kicks you out at 12) but I don't think that accounts for the differences in win rates.    

I think what really need to be changed are the low-end rewards.  Rewards for 9+ wins are fine, but wins 1-9 need to be increased.  I think it should start at a FLOOR of 5 packs.  5 packs for 1000 gold is bad but not despicable like the current format.  Scale that up by 1 pack or something for every 2 wins (adding gold/dust for the wins where you're not earning an extra pack) until you reach 9+.  That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure someone could come up with better.  But the floor value needs to be higher.  WAY higher.

An 0-3 run is entirely possible even for the best players, and the reward for 0 wins in Heroic Tavern Brawl is *WORSE* than the reward for 0 wins in arena, despite the entry fee being more than 6x higher!  Let that sink in for a moment.

 I'd be much happier if there was some rule like "you must switch classes after every win" or something.  After completing a win with each class, all are available for play once again.  Of course, this would take a lot of time deckbuilding - wise but I think it could be fun.

I've been happy with the standard meta up until recently - The post old gods meta was my favorite and Karazhan even added some fun cards.  I thought that the nerfs would make the meta even better since it hit aggro (and even zoo) pretty hard.

However, I've gotta say I think that post nerfs, the gap between the top deck and the rest of the field has become massive.  It feels like the secret Paladin era where I'm just punished by every midrange shaman I see.  I think I've dealt with their threats, but every turn it's another wave of incredible minions.  Their card value is insane without sacrificing a strong opener and they transition nearly flawlessly into every phase of the game.

Unfortunately, any trading system ends up being exploitable.  They encourage alternate accounts - do your dailies on multiple accounts a day and then trade the best of it to your "main" account.  Even at only a few cards a month it's harmful to the game and the meta.  You really don't want a scenario where playing many alternate accounts is more beneficial than one main one per server.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

 

HS as a "competitive format" has become little more than a fancy slot machine that doesn't give out cash rewards. You hear the same from the pros, tournaments are coinflips even when there is very big skill difference between contestants.

 C'thun Priest and Dragon Priest are both pretty bad right now - when the meta changes, especially after new content comes out, decks that WERE good can often become pretty bad.  Anyfin Paladin has really fallen as well, especially with Murk-Eye rotating out.  

It also depends what rank you're playing at, as the meta is different at different ranks.  Additionally, it's always a good idea to work on optimizing your plays - even consistent legend players make mistakes frequently and there is always something to improve!  If you're interested (and NA, as I only have an NA account) I can spectate you and give advice on your plays and decks that would fit your playstyle.  It's hard to tell without actually seeing you in action what the issue is that's causing your snag.  If you're newish to the game, playing arena can also really help.  It teaches tempo, trading, and how to play around common cards.  When you get good enough, it can also be a huge source of income, netting you far more than it costs in rewards.

Feel free to PM me for my battletag if you're interested.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 The list looks cool, I didn't mean offense - but this being the interwebs there are often more claims than results.

You don't struggle with cycle?

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from kitsel >>

This all seems a bit silly and hyperbolic.

As someone who builds my own decks, the meta has literally never been better for "new" decks than right now.  Back before standard, deckbuilding was incredibly boring as pretty much every deck included shredder and Dr. Boom and most archetypes had other cards that were just so good they were practically required.  Loatheb and Belcher for Midrange decks, for example.  Couple those with relevant class cards and over half your deck is essentially mandatory.

I've played a few of my own decks to legend, but the last few seasons have been my most successful as a deckbuilder - while using a class considered bad at the moment, with a deck that is entirely unlike the other archetypes being played for that class (rogue).  In June, I broke into the top 100 with my Rogue deck and finished top 200.  In July, I broke into the top 40 legend with the same deck.  I took August off, but I'm back at rank 3 already this month after changing 4-5 cards due to ONiK and the meta.

If people actually made a real effort to create their own decks, I think we'd see a lot more variety.  You'd be amazed how hard it is for your opponents to play optimally when they think you're playing some other deck and then suddenly realize they have NO idea what might be coming.  

IMO, there is a very high skill ceiling in Hearthstone, but if you're not paying attention to the plays you've made and their effects it can be hard to see how those small decisions can snowball.  It's very easy to write off a loss as "well, there was nothing I could do, I lost in mulligan!!" rather than realizing that you might have won if you had just dagger -> swing turn 2 against the Mana Wyrm and then gone backstab -> SI:7 on turn 3 to clear the Wyrm and Apprentice while keeping the coin instead of backstab -> coin -> SI:7ing turn 2 and then been the victim of Apprentice -> Frostbolt on SI:7 with no way to clear it turn 3.  In the first scenario, you end up with the coin, a dagger charge, and an SI:7.  In the second scenario, you end up with an empty board, no coin, no dagger, and staring down a Sorcerer's Apprentice on turn 3.  From there, the game snowballs, and you're unaware that you've made a huge gamechanging decision because there wasn't an obvious misplay.  It just feels like you were crushed from the start.

 Pardon my cynicism, but I find it hard to believe you broke into top 200 with a rogue deck. There are near 40% shamans there, and I think most top players would note if someone made it into top 40 with a rogue list that was consistent in such a meta.

 

Quote from iandakar >>

Quote from vionicesca >>

Quote from iandakar >>

 

But yes, the idea is to look beyond cool tricks and interesting gains.  You have to picture the deck and ask "how do I win with this deck?"  And don't imagine dream grabs.  If you get crap on the random grabs, how do you win with the deck?  If you aren't sure.. that's the problem.

 My take on the problem is that I run all of these thief cards, Burgle included, throw in Sylvanas, Loot Hoarders and Journey Below and instead of using Yogg, which would seem like the natural choice here with the huge amount of spells, I run N'Zoth. It's not spectacular, but it works well enough.

 I've seen that and never really cared for it.  N'Zoth is, effectively, a Control mindset with a Tempo setup..in a deck that has no lasting staying power and can't really afford to waste too much time with setup.

 

The problem with Rogues isn't with either of those cards - they're both actually quite good.  Rogues just have a fundamental problem.  They've got NO class heals, NO class taunts, one (mediocre) AoE and one unplayable AoE, and a hero power that encourages them to sacrifice health for tempo.  Hopefully the next expansion helps us out a bit, although Tomb Pillager eventually rotating out is going to hurt!

This all seems a bit silly and hyperbolic.

As someone who builds my own decks, the meta has literally never been better for "new" decks than right now.  Back before standard, deckbuilding was incredibly boring as pretty much every deck included shredder and Dr. Boom and most archetypes had other cards that were just so good they were practically required.  Loatheb and Belcher for Midrange decks, for example.  Couple those with relevant class cards and over half your deck is essentially mandatory.

I've played a few of my own decks to legend, but the last few seasons have been my most successful as a deckbuilder - while using a class considered bad at the moment, with a deck that is entirely unlike the other archetypes being played for that class (rogue).  In June, I broke into the top 100 with my Rogue deck and finished top 200.  In July, I broke into the top 40 legend with the same deck.  I took August off, but I'm back at rank 3 already this month after changing 4-5 cards due to ONiK and the meta.

If people actually made a real effort to create their own decks, I think we'd see a lot more variety.  You'd be amazed how hard it is for your opponents to play optimally when they think you're playing some other deck and then suddenly realize they have NO idea what might be coming.  

IMO, there is a very high skill ceiling in Hearthstone, but if you're not paying attention to the plays you've made and their effects it can be hard to see how those small decisions can snowball.  It's very easy to write off a loss as "well, there was nothing I could do, I lost in mulligan!!" rather than realizing that you might have won if you had just dagger -> swing turn 2 against the Mana Wyrm and then gone backstab -> SI:7 on turn 3 to clear the Wyrm and Apprentice while keeping the coin instead of backstab -> coin -> SI:7ing turn 2 and then been the victim of Apprentice -> Frostbolt on SI:7 with no way to clear it turn 3.  In the first scenario, you end up with the coin, a dagger charge, and an SI:7.  In the second scenario, you end up with an empty board, no coin, no dagger, and staring down a Sorcerer's Apprentice on turn 3.  From there, the game snowballs, and you're unaware that you've made a huge gamechanging decision because there wasn't an obvious misplay.  It just feels like you were crushed from the start.

Quote from Cavoli >>

Playing since a week before GvG relase. I never hated game that much. I miss Dr.Boom, mad scientist, belcher and other broken stuff. At least I knew what will happen. Now only aggro decks don't rely on rng(I hate aggro deck). Even fucking control warrior running yogg nowadays. 

Arena... Turn 7 Mage flamestrike every time. Nothing to say. 

Quote from captram77 >>

I'm really good with midrange and control.....so I have to know when to trade and when you go face..... Can't be something as that.

Quote from MrPinguin >>

Quote from kitsel >>

I hit top 100 legend in June and top 50 legend in July with a homebrewed  Rogue deck that is nothing like any other deck being played, really.  It's entirely possible.  You'd be very surprised how hard it is for people to react appropriately when they don't know what every card in your deck is.  And I don't mean it in a "hurr durr people don't know how to play properly if they don't know all your cards" way, I mean that it is literally impossible for them to determine where to use removal when they don't know what your threats are or what type of deck you're playing.

As mentioned by someone else previously, the problem isn't that new non-meta decks don't work - it's that they BECOME the meta if they're good enough.  This isn't Blizzard's fault though, but rather an inevitability of online card games in the internet era.  The only way to realistically have a successful deck not become super popular is to hide it or make a deck complicated enough that most can't pilot it.  If it gets published, it'll become part of the meta and everyone will know it within a few weeks.  I chose to hide my deck until I got to top 50 legend with it, and even after publishing it, it didn't catch fire because it's quite complicated to play.

 With a roque deck thats completly new? Kappa. So no Aggro no Deathrattle, no Miracle and no Reno?

What are you playing? Murloc Roque?