Hearthpwn

Quote from RAGEdarky >>

 

Quote from breach_deciphern >>

 

- the game is too expensive, causing players to shy away from experimenting and building what they actually want to build

- game is too punishing and difficult for f2p.

- other games on the market provide far more enjoyment on average.

 You're wrong.

thank you all for your replies! I enjoyed reading them. I've improved the quality of the post a bit (to give it more clarity), gotta still fix some redundancy and will continue to improve it. I think it's clear that I'm looking for the link between expensive deck building and losing giving basically no progress of any kind (except the joy of playing, in some cases!) as I'm trying to figure out why are most of my friends migrating to other card games. 

I myself am a f2p since Naxx and have mostly been playing off-beat decks (a little hipster blood in me, and some deck building habits from MTG) however I have been having some difficulty enjoying this expansion despite it giving us a ton of great tools to play with. my friends list also basically died off with time, which hasn't been helpful! however, reading your replies on this topic is comforting, so yes, again, thank you all and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion. 

I have to say that despite getting a lot of cards that I absolutely enjoy experimenting with (Hagatha, Shudderwock, Tess Greymane, Glinda...) this is like the fastest I've started to put off playing the game simply because my opponents seem to be more interested in grinding out wins with dull decks from previous expansions.

I can't really enjoy the game yet until something is done about the balance. if they do indeed nerf them, then I can see myself having a great time on this expansion.

I've been on a losing streak this morning of about 10 games (basically 8 of which were lost to counters or incredibly poor draws, and 2 were lost to me being caught off-guard by the unexpected) of which 2 were actually pretty cool games - the other 8 were miserable and uninteresting. I've not experienced a lot of these losing streaks so I'm not too tilted about it, it really just happens sometimes to anyone basically (especially if you love to experiment with nonsense decks or are having a bad day) and as usual it got me thinking that my Hearthstone games today basically translated into "I spent 1.5h for no gain or progress except I had about 15mins of 2 fun games. (that I've also lost)" 

I'm a moron and a masochist, so it is fine for me to swallow these losses without getting the carrot in the end... but, but, I've been noticing that my list of Hearthstone friends, which has seen about 300-400 people total through my years here, that only like 2 are left that actually still play the game and about 4-6 just log in to knock out quests when they're full. Of course, in the natural course of life, people have to leave their hobbies sometimes or replace them, so on, so on, we all know how life goes... however, a lot of these players are still cardgame players - but left for other card games that I've noticed are far less harsh and are more rewarding to play.  

Through some discussion with some of these friends the same few complaints happened ;

- the game is too expensive, causing players to shy away from experimenting and building what they actually want to build

- losing translates into useless EXP and lost time, which stacks on top of the first point

- people that invest less money are generally unable to invest into anything but safe decks for a long time till they earn enough (and even then they need to ration their resources carefully) 

- the combination of collection management causes too much stress, forcing decks and decisions that eventually lead into playing decks you don't really want to play against players in the same situation.

- game is too punishing and difficult for f2p.

- other games on the market provide far more enjoyment on average.

- after reaching Legend there was nothing left to do.

... so on, so on... 

in short : so, I've been wondering. I discussed with these friends (some of them are/were Legend players, some of them basically never reach rank 15) and it made me think of several questions that I ask myself, so I asked them as well and now am wondering about your answers as well. here they are : 

1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate) 

2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?

3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.

4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average? 

5) how do you deal with losing streaks? 

6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?

7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)

well, that's it for me. I think the enjoyment of the game is greatly hampered by both the costs and the fact that losing in this game can be very discouraging to the player, especially those that wish to play off-beat decks or are experimenting. you and me might have tough enough skin to endure such hardships, but it could definitively be improved by making it more accessible, enjoyable and less discouraging. 

thanks for reading,

and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion, it has brought us many fun tools to play with!

okay, I'm instantly trying that. it looks sweet as hell and Majordomo Executus needs some lovin'. I knew I didn't disenchant it years ago for a reason ♥ thanks a million for the link! 

but yeah I meant the Malygos version, which should be a lot safer and easier to pilot. same principle, easy to tech, is good against both Warlock and Paladin and can outtank most decks.

Kingsbane Rogue is a tough one, but I'm liking OTK Kun-Aviana Druid against the rest of the field. it's very expensive sadly but a ton of fun to play.

both Wild and Standard are the playgrounds of Paladin and Warlock right now, though there are less Paladins around since Warlock is the only thing that can stop it rather easily. I think Call to Arms is gonna get the hatchet for sure and Possessed Lackey might just get changed completely. they also gave Warlock too much healing (30 + Bloodreaver Gul'dan in standard, rendering even Reno Jackson obsolete) amazing late game and amazing board clear, leaving them with absolutely no weakness. I'm not sure are they really gonna nerf like 5 cards or so from Warlock, but it might be needed. Life Tap has also been a problem since the beginning of Hearthstone, now more than ever.

I'm in the same boat, except that I'm experimenting with Shudderwock builds in Wild (mostly non-OTK version and some hilarious ones with Yogg and N'zoth) I kinda have nothing to play. everything that looks any fun at all isn't very good or is too expensive, and it's just hopeless against Warlock.

it's rough. think we're in for some nerfs soon.

there's no way Shudderwock at its current versions is better than Cubelock or anywhere near tier1. Cubelock is faster, more reliable, their threats outlast even Volcano a lot of the time and you have only 2 Hex that you need to find. in the worst case scenario, Warlock will also be running the "discover a demon" card if things really go that far. in the meantime, you just get overrun by Paladin (which is here to stay) and even something "easy" like Taunt Warrior can put on enough aggression that you lose. 

any deck that relies on drawing out 90% of their deck while playing underpowered/understated cards cannot hope to ever be top of meta unless their basic and classic set supports it - like how old Freeze Mage was. Shaman ain't no Freeze Mage. I predict Shudderwock will find its place sooner in some non-OTK version (or a deck that doesn't strictly rely on it) until next expansion, when they maybe get better tools for it.

I stand corrected, pointless thread.

I only crafted Shudderwock and opened about 20 packs. (giving me Liam, Glinda and Face Collector) I have 0 regrets on Shudder, it's interesting to experiment with and you can do nuts stuff like play it in a N'zoth, C'thun and whatever other deck, it's pretty gnarly and I'm annoyed and saddened by this outrage against it, which amazingly awarded Blizz's response even faster than Call to Arms and Cubelock. 

basically no other card in the set attracts me except maybe Tess Greymane (another cool flashy card!) and Hagatha the Witch (like Tess, but I feel even weaker, they're both probably Tier3-4 material) but all in all I'm afraid that we'll just be overrun by Paladins, Cubelocks and dull Spiteful Summoner decks, and all these gimmicky decks are pointless.  

they took that dumbness straight away from MTG, where a set has a featured keyword but once that same mechanic appears somewhere else it will just be spelled out. check "Landfall" for example. it's kinda like "oh Witchwood is the Rush and Echo set, and the later set will not* have those keywords, but new ones."

it feels me with desperation that they're actively copying like the worst/confusing aspects of Magic.

I find her to be a miss in Shudderwock decks because that deck is capable to being very streamlined, should have a rather large hand almost all the time (and doesn't need random hand fillers) and the 3 damage could be a negative factor when executing the combo.

 all in all I think Hagatha is objectively good but possibly has no home until next expansion.

yeh, after Warlocks get a taste of the Shudders, it's gonna be an aggro meta. :v it's crazy to see something have even bigger late game power than N'zoth and Gul'dan, but here we are. 

I like this expansion a lot more than most of my peers I think. People are forgetting that we need to down-power things, that games need to go on and that more different archetypes are being seeded here and the future from such a fresh year start must be done carefully - or risk blowing up immediately. However, I would never preorder in this game's state.

I've been playing since Naxx and I've not preordered a single time. I believe the pricing in this game is nonsense, too high especially for smaller countries, the service provided is absolutely atrocious at times (it took Patches a full rotation to get nerfed? Yogg? Patron? Undertaker? coupled with a company that is being shady about mechanics, pro players not understanding the mechanics of the game, the foolish lean towards eSports and casuals in one and nobody happy about it, shady finance and drop rates and has been tone deaf too many times to game problems) and that the game developed so slowly and cowardly that it feels like it's being developed in their mom's basement on 1 computer.

I'm still enjoying the game and the polish on it and have high hopes for the future, but until I get some concrete evidence that things will change for the better, charging 50 euros (a rather large sum for a small country) to get so little feels like robbery to me.