I've been on a losing streak this morning of about 10 games (basically 8 of which were lost to counters or incredibly poor draws, and 2 were lost to me being caught off-guard by the unexpected) of which 2 were actually pretty cool games - the other 8 were miserable and uninteresting. I've not experienced a lot of these losing streaks so I'm not too tilted about it, it really just happens sometimes to anyone basically (especially if you love to experiment with nonsense decks or are having a bad day) and as usual it got me thinking that my Hearthstone games today basically translated into "I spent 1.5h for no gain or progress except I had about 15mins of 2 fun games. (that I've also lost)"
I'm a moron and a masochist, so it is fine for me to swallow these losses without getting the carrot in the end... but, but, I've been noticing that my list of Hearthstone friends, which has seen about 300-400 people total through my years here, that only like 2 are left that actually still play the game and about 4-6 just log in to knock out quests when they're full. Of course, in the natural course of life, people have to leave their hobbies sometimes or replace them, so on, so on, we all know how life goes... however, a lot of these players are still cardgame players - but left for other card games that I've noticed are far less harsh and are more rewarding to play.
Through some discussion with some of these friends the same few complaints happened ;
- the game is too expensive, causing players to shy away from experimenting and building what they actually want to build
- losing translates into useless EXP and lost time, which stacks on top of the first point
- people that invest less money are generally unable to invest into anything but safe decks for a long time till they earn enough (and even then they need to ration their resources carefully)
- the combination of collection management causes too much stress, forcing decks and decisions that eventually lead into playing decks you don't really want to play against players in the same situation.
- game is too punishing and difficult for f2p.
- other games on the market provide far more enjoyment on average.
- after reaching Legend there was nothing left to do.
... so on, so on...
in short : so, I've been wondering. I discussed with these friends (some of them are/were Legend players, some of them basically never reach rank 15) and it made me think of several questions that I ask myself, so I asked them as well and now am wondering about your answers as well. here they are :
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
5) how do you deal with losing streaks?
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
well, that's it for me. I think the enjoyment of the game is greatly hampered by both the costs and the fact that losing in this game can be very discouraging to the player, especially those that wish to play off-beat decks or are experimenting. you and me might have tough enough skin to endure such hardships, but it could definitively be improved by making it more accessible, enjoyable and less discouraging.
thanks for reading,
and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion, it has brought us many fun tools to play with!
Every expansion I toy around with decks I like to play, they don’t increase my ladder all that much(not to concerned with ladder tbh) but are fun to play. At the moment I’m enjoying the gunspire warrior, when it comes off it is spectacular, I lose a lot but hey who cares it’s just a game but the amount of meta decks you play against is incredible. Warrior has no hope against ramp Druid and the new inner fire legendary priest, they seem boring to play, each to their own.
Hmm I agree that experimenting is very expensive. I spend quite some money on the game for it. And I do wish I could somehow play against more players that experiment. None the less I am enjoying HS very much. As for my friendlist. I have deleted some big part of it just a few weeks ago since peeps were offline for so long. There are a lot of card games out there, but I must say, for me none of them can compete with HS. For me the polish, fun and just beautiful art and flavour are unmatched. I also love the warcraft theme
I also get frustrated by the loss-streaks now and then. Then I mostly switch to a fast meta deck and win at least one game. Or just do something else for a bit. I would love for the rewards to be less focussed on winning.
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate) I did that before I realized grinding ladder is retarded and what matters the most is having fun with your homebrews at rank 10. It doesnt prove nothing. You just keep playing tier 1 decks up to legend that oyu dont really like. And then when some people hit legend they automatically switch to other fun decks. This is beyond retarded that people have to keep proving to themselves they can reach legend with broken and easy decks.
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress? I think this is the reason I left HS. Its not like winning is all that matters. But once I reached rank 10 with homebrews it was very hard to win any game which leads to a lot of frustration. I hated top tier decks because they were too damn easy and it almost always felt like cheating. So I said fuck this, Im not playing a game where I can only win by doing what others do and play the same decks I see on streams and ladder = BOOOORIIIING!!!
- how are you guys doing with your friend lists? dunno. Havent logged in for some time now. But I did have long friend list.
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average? In HS it was always the same BS - "there was nothing i could have done, thats not fair nor fun" = VERY FRUSTRATING. Now that I play elder scrolls legends I do have those kinds of thoughts but just a minute of thoughts given to last game and I can see my misplays which makes my anger disappear- I deserved to lose.
- how do you deal with losing streaks? 3 games lost = turn off the game. Every time I did not do that was a big mistake, that ruined my mood more than I should have allowed this retarded game for.
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course) Maybe sth like players ranking? Like at the end of the game a winner decides if his opponent deserve a positive rating. And then lets say 3 upvotes from opponents = 10 gold. Other choice would be downvote which cancels upvote. And 3rd choice do nothing, for occasions like when opponent lost because he was playing badly.
I suspect that just about any half-decent player can pilot just about any half-decent home-brew to Dad Legend - or much higher, in Wild. Assuming that intelligence is normally distributed among the player base, about 5/6ths of the folks on ladder are C-students or worse - in the long run, they'll win as often as they lose, or less, and regardless of what Tier 1 super-deck they might be piloting. The As and Bs, on the other hand, can pilot Reno Hunter or Mech Rogue to a top 100 Legend finish in Wild - there's lots of video proof on YT, for anyone who is interested (I'd recommend starting with DaneHS.) The game doesn't owe anything to any player in its competitive mode - presumably, providing the majority of the player base replayable PvE content in the form of Dungeon Runs and Monster Hunts is meant to target folks who are frustrated at finishing every season in ranks 20-15, without making much progress.
Last expansion I lost for two days in a row not a single victory while I was experimenting with a shaman otk based around old murk eye and the spellstone card, I ended up stalling out at rank 15 but had fun and made friends when I pulled it off. I really wanted to give up on it after the first day but every 4-5 losses I just logged off for a few hours brainstorming how to make the deck better and tried not to think about all the netdecking dipshits hitting rank 5 with cubelock
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
I try lots of different decks but if I don't enjoy the deck I stop playing it. But I tend to play more meme decks around the "safe ranks" than when I'm around rank 7 or 6.
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
Of course. I craft lots of strange cards after a new expansion comes. However, those few precious moments is usually worth the dust.
- how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
It's very rare I add people and if and usually I end up deleting people are a certain amount of time - simply because we don't have any contact.
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
It depends. Sometimes I rage, sometimes I accept it and sometimes I am in between those two moods.
- how do you deal with losing streaks?
Stop playing.
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
I only add people in cases of extreme luck (not to trash talk but to laugh it off with them) and if they play an awesome deck.
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
No. It's ranked. No need to reward people for losing.
I've been on a losing streak this morning of about 10 games (basically 8 of which were lost to counters or incredibly poor draws, and 2 were lost to me being caught off-guard by the unexpected) of which 2 were actually pretty cool games - the other 8 were miserable and uninteresting. I've not experienced a lot of these losing streaks so I'm not too tilted about it, it really just happens sometimes to anyone basically (especially if you love to experiment with nonsense decks or are having a bad day) and as usual it got me thinking that my Hearthstone games today basically translated into "I spent 1.5h for no gain or progress except I had about 15mins of 2 fun games. (that I've also lost)"
I'm a moron and a masochist, so it is fine for me to swallow these losses without getting the carrot in the end... but, but, I've been noticing that my list of Hearthstone friends, which has seen about 300-400 people total through my years here, that only like 2 are left that actually still play the game and about 4-6 just log in to knock out quests when they're full. Of course, in the natural course of life, people have to leave their hobbies sometimes or replace them, so on, so on, we all know how life goes... however, a lot of these players are still cardgame players - but left for other card games that I've noticed are far less harsh and are more rewarding to play.
Through some discussion with some of these friends the same few complaints happened ;
- the game is too expensive, causing players to shy away from experimenting and building what they actually want to build
I agree, the amount of free packs a f2p can get it's too low - maybe a "non-duplicate card busting" mechanic for Epic cards (as we have for Legendaries) could help
- losing translates into useless EXP and lost time, which stacks on top of the first point
Time is not a factor, I mean you're playing for fun, not only to gain EXP after all, right?? But I see your point
- people that invest less money are generally unable to invest into anything but safe decks for a long time till they earn enough (and even then they need to ration their resources carefully)
Yeah, that sucks
- the combination of collection management causes too much stress, forcing decks and decisions that eventually lead into playing decks you don't really want to play against players in the same situation.
Same here
- game is too punishing and difficult for f2p
Relates to previous points so yes
- other games on the market provide far more enjoyment on average
I don't play any other digital CGG at the moment so... don't know
in short : so, I've been wondering,
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
Never - I always play decks that are fun to me. 8 times out of 10 are slower, wacky decks (control or combo)
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
Yeah, happens all the time - the fun factor drops after a while, and I move on the next "cool" deck I've thought of. Same happens when I netdeck something. There some archetypes tho that I play over and over again, teching and replacing cards as time goes by, and I don't drop those decks even if I'm at 40% winrate with those :D
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
I'm tilted when I lose to the 5th odd paladin in a row or where I don't draw my Tinkerspark I only teched in beacause of Cubelock. Honestly it's because I'm bored, losing is actually last of my concern since I'm not that good to grind to legend anyway (neither have the time to do it) and I always end the month between ranks 8 and 5
- how do you deal with losing streaks?
I don't care :D
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
Never add a meta deck player, it's not interesting to do so - I often add a player if I enjoyed it's non-obvious, fun deck
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
Honestly I don't know. Maybe gold, yes. Losing stars is actually ok I guess.
thanks for reading!
Thanks for asking! :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
0% of the time, I play my own decks
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
No, I don't care about winning, but rather having fun. If I lose too much, I usually don't care, albeit from time to time I also like to win.
- how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
"All my friends are dead, push me to the edge". On a more serious note though, I rarely add people, so my list it always empty. Among those that I invited are people who play regularly.
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
I don't care for as long as the game is interesting or fun.
- how do you deal with losing streaks?
I don't.
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
I practically don't add people after matches, no matter the deck. Unless they invite me first, then I accept.
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
thank you all for your replies! I enjoyed reading them. I've improved the quality of the post a bit (to give it more clarity), gotta still fix some redundancy and will continue to improve it. I think it's clear that I'm looking for the link between expensive deck building and losing giving basically no progress of any kind (except the joy of playing, in some cases!) as I'm trying to figure out why are most of my friends migrating to other card games.
I myself am a f2p since Naxx and have mostly been playing off-beat decks (a little hipster blood in me, and some deck building habits from MTG) however I have been having some difficulty enjoying this expansion despite it giving us a ton of great tools to play with. my friends list also basically died off with time, which hasn't been helpful! however, reading your replies on this topic is comforting, so yes, again, thank you all and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion.
With three expansions a year and double class legendaries it's become more expensive to experiment around, definitely. Specially with dust values and pity timer still unchanged since time immemorial.
3 for 1 would be far more reasonable (preferably 2 for 1) considering those changes. 500 for DE'ing and 1500 to craft a Leg, 300 for an Epic and 30 for DEing a Rare. Commons should be far more accessible to craft at 20 instead of 40.
The pity timer could be 20 with the extra amount they'll be pumpin each year from now on.
Even pumping some money doesn't look like guaranteed value. I got the Welcome Bundle in December, the Mammoth Bundle in January and pre-ordered Witchwood. Was also seriously considering dropping $200 for 40 packs of each of the other four standard sets that I need to catch up (Classic, Un'Goro, KoFT and KnC).
After opening only two Legs in 78 packs, I reconsidered and didn't do it. Classic and the Mammoth year sets have 100 legendaries. Using $200 with a chance of getting only 4 out of 100 seems a ridiculously shitty deal. With a 20 pity timer it still could be 8 out of 100, which still isn't fantastic, but would be far, far less frustrating at least.
Yes, I know there are people who opened 8 in 80 packs and etc, "it's all to RNG", "bad luck", "that's how RNG works" and blablabla. It's really just bullshit. It shouldn't be up to so much RNG when spending money, specially if you want to buy the 40 pack+ options.
So buying packs seem there's a lot of chance to give so little value back. Dust is hard to come by. It's no wonder people save their resources for proved and tested decks. How many people can just spend so much money and dust to test a lot of things? Nah, I'm using my few resources to craft Cubelock or some Paladin variant.
This also "helps" a lot metas becoming stale or facing the same things repeatedly. It's far cheaper to build 1-2 proved and tested decks than it is to experiment or even meme around.
I believe every expac that report growing users and sales, but it’s not a game for everyone, Kobolds didn’t really see a lot of play from me but I’ve been all over WW and loved Knights. I’m not a f2p player tho. I’m also a dedicated mobile player. If HS didn’t have a mobile client I wouldn’t be so deep in.
I don't have time to reply to all of the questions, but I just wanted to put it out there that just playing Casual with a decent/fun homebrew is 10x more fun than trying to ladder, imo.
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate) Happened often when doing quests, although recently I reroll quests not according to gold but to match what I would play anyway. Less gold, but more fun.
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress? Yes, but some may not fit the intention of your question as they were not "weak" when I crafted them. e.g. I crafted and absolutely loved playing Renolock. It was both fun to play and strong enough to hold its own vs anything (favored or unfavored, sure, but there was no autoloss). I modified it after Reno rotated (played Krul/Kaza-lock a lot, which was never really meta/top, but I just loved the style of it), so you could say I dropped it because I wanted to stay in Standard (still occasionally play wild, with various decks though).
One that would probably fit your question perfectly is - Lakkari discolock :) Crafted Lakkari Sacrifice and Clutchmother Zavas more for Warlock completion after everyone concluded that Quest Warlock sucked (but hey, I opened Blood-Queen Lana'thel, have to try it :)). I actually really enjoyed playing around with trying to make the deck work, but eventually dropped it because it was too random and frustrating to die to RNG (although when it worked, it did bring out some WOWs lol)
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc. Not changing much really, but it's very small.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average? If I lost to a perfect draw I could do nothing about or due to RNG being nuts, it's a bit annoying. If I lose consistently to a type of deck, I think of what to modify in my own to reduce/prevent those losses. I often tweak the deck I use in reaction to the most recent losses.
5) how do you deal with losing streaks? I don't play much per day (typically 2-5 games), so big losing streaks don't really happen. Even if I have a losing streak one day, tomorrow the meta is different and I usually win some back. This also helps prevent burnout and the "waaaah, meta is so boring!!!" syndrome.
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match? Meta or not, most important is how the game went. If it was a fun game with cool stuff happening (or recognizing some bluff / mind game between each other), I am more inclined to add to simply say gg, and keep contact with a cool player. But yes, a completely non-meta deck I never saw before would probably make it more likely for me to be impressed by the game and thus add the player.
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course) Could be a reward for simply playing, sure (and a bigger reward for winning than measly 10g for 3 wins... more like 10g/win maybe?) The worry here are bots, but that should be addressed in any case somehow differently as even the "gold just for winning" doesn't prevent them.
You cant complain cause u seem to be playing aggro deck according to each match time so it makes sense to face a lot of anti aggro decks cause thats what ppl play to counter the top decks which are cubelock and 3 or 4 variations of aggro pally
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I've been on a losing streak this morning of about 10 games (basically 8 of which were lost to counters or incredibly poor draws, and 2 were lost to me being caught off-guard by the unexpected) of which 2 were actually pretty cool games - the other 8 were miserable and uninteresting. I've not experienced a lot of these losing streaks so I'm not too tilted about it, it really just happens sometimes to anyone basically (especially if you love to experiment with nonsense decks or are having a bad day) and as usual it got me thinking that my Hearthstone games today basically translated into "I spent 1.5h for no gain or progress except I had about 15mins of 2 fun games. (that I've also lost)"
I'm a moron and a masochist, so it is fine for me to swallow these losses without getting the carrot in the end... but, but, I've been noticing that my list of Hearthstone friends, which has seen about 300-400 people total through my years here, that only like 2 are left that actually still play the game and about 4-6 just log in to knock out quests when they're full. Of course, in the natural course of life, people have to leave their hobbies sometimes or replace them, so on, so on, we all know how life goes... however, a lot of these players are still cardgame players - but left for other card games that I've noticed are far less harsh and are more rewarding to play.
Through some discussion with some of these friends the same few complaints happened ;
- the game is too expensive, causing players to shy away from experimenting and building what they actually want to build
- losing translates into useless EXP and lost time, which stacks on top of the first point
- people that invest less money are generally unable to invest into anything but safe decks for a long time till they earn enough (and even then they need to ration their resources carefully)
- the combination of collection management causes too much stress, forcing decks and decisions that eventually lead into playing decks you don't really want to play against players in the same situation.
- game is too punishing and difficult for f2p.
- other games on the market provide far more enjoyment on average.
- after reaching Legend there was nothing left to do.
... so on, so on...
in short : so, I've been wondering. I discussed with these friends (some of them are/were Legend players, some of them basically never reach rank 15) and it made me think of several questions that I ask myself, so I asked them as well and now am wondering about your answers as well. here they are :
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
5) how do you deal with losing streaks?
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
well, that's it for me. I think the enjoyment of the game is greatly hampered by both the costs and the fact that losing in this game can be very discouraging to the player, especially those that wish to play off-beat decks or are experimenting. you and me might have tough enough skin to endure such hardships, but it could definitively be improved by making it more accessible, enjoyable and less discouraging.
thanks for reading,
and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion, it has brought us many fun tools to play with!
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
Pfft no
Don't mind me just passing by
Every expansion I toy around with decks I like to play, they don’t increase my ladder all that much(not to concerned with ladder tbh) but are fun to play. At the moment I’m enjoying the gunspire warrior, when it comes off it is spectacular, I lose a lot but hey who cares it’s just a game but the amount of meta decks you play against is incredible. Warrior has no hope against ramp Druid and the new inner fire legendary priest, they seem boring to play, each to their own.
Hmm I agree that experimenting is very expensive. I spend quite some money on the game for it. And I do wish I could somehow play against more players that experiment. None the less I am enjoying HS very much. As for my friendlist. I have deleted some big part of it just a few weeks ago since peeps were offline for so long. There are a lot of card games out there, but I must say, for me none of them can compete with HS. For me the polish, fun and just beautiful art and flavour are unmatched. I also love the warcraft theme
I also get frustrated by the loss-streaks now and then. Then I mostly switch to a fast meta deck and win at least one game. Or just do something else for a bit. I would love for the rewards to be less focussed on winning.
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
I did that before I realized grinding ladder is retarded and what matters the most is having fun with your homebrews at rank 10. It doesnt prove nothing. You just keep playing tier 1 decks up to legend that oyu dont really like. And then when some people hit legend they automatically switch to other fun decks. This is beyond retarded that people have to keep proving to themselves they can reach legend with broken and easy decks.
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
I think this is the reason I left HS. Its not like winning is all that matters. But once I reached rank 10 with homebrews it was very hard to win any game which leads to a lot of frustration. I hated top tier decks because they were too damn easy and it almost always felt like cheating. So I said fuck this, Im not playing a game where I can only win by doing what others do and play the same decks I see on streams and ladder = BOOOORIIIING!!!
- how are you guys doing with your friend lists?
dunno. Havent logged in for some time now. But I did have long friend list.
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
In HS it was always the same BS - "there was nothing i could have done, thats not fair nor fun" = VERY FRUSTRATING. Now that I play elder scrolls legends I do have those kinds of thoughts but just a minute of thoughts given to last game and I can see my misplays which makes my anger disappear- I deserved to lose.
- how do you deal with losing streaks?
3 games lost = turn off the game. Every time I did not do that was a big mistake, that ruined my mood more than I should have allowed this retarded game for.
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
Maybe sth like players ranking? Like at the end of the game a winner decides if his opponent deserve a positive rating. And then lets say 3 upvotes from opponents = 10 gold. Other choice would be downvote which cancels upvote. And 3rd choice do nothing, for occasions like when opponent lost because he was playing badly.
Hmmm.
I suspect that just about any half-decent player can pilot just about any half-decent home-brew to Dad Legend - or much higher, in Wild. Assuming that intelligence is normally distributed among the player base, about 5/6ths of the folks on ladder are C-students or worse - in the long run, they'll win as often as they lose, or less, and regardless of what Tier 1 super-deck they might be piloting. The As and Bs, on the other hand, can pilot Reno Hunter or Mech Rogue to a top 100 Legend finish in Wild - there's lots of video proof on YT, for anyone who is interested (I'd recommend starting with DaneHS.) The game doesn't owe anything to any player in its competitive mode - presumably, providing the majority of the player base replayable PvE content in the form of Dungeon Runs and Monster Hunts is meant to target folks who are frustrated at finishing every season in ranks 20-15, without making much progress.
Last expansion I lost for two days in a row not a single victory while I was experimenting with a shaman otk based around old murk eye and the spellstone card, I ended up stalling out at rank 15 but had fun and made friends when I pulled it off. I really wanted to give up on it after the first day but every 4-5 losses I just logged off for a few hours brainstorming how to make the deck better and tried not to think about all the netdecking dipshits hitting rank 5 with cubelock
I agree, the amount of free packs a f2p can get it's too low - maybe a "non-duplicate card busting" mechanic for Epic cards (as we have for Legendaries) could help
Time is not a factor, I mean you're playing for fun, not only to gain EXP after all, right?? But I see your point
Yeah, that sucks
Same here
Relates to previous points so yes
I don't play any other digital CGG at the moment so... don't know
Never - I always play decks that are fun to me. 8 times out of 10 are slower, wacky decks (control or combo)
Yeah, happens all the time - the fun factor drops after a while, and I move on the next "cool" deck I've thought of. Same happens when I netdeck something. There some archetypes tho that I play over and over again, teching and replacing cards as time goes by, and I don't drop those decks even if I'm at 40% winrate with those :D
I'm tilted when I lose to the 5th odd paladin in a row or where I don't draw my Tinkerspark I only teched in beacause of Cubelock. Honestly it's because I'm bored, losing is actually last of my concern since I'm not that good to grind to legend anyway (neither have the time to do it) and I always end the month between ranks 8 and 5
I don't care :D
Never add a meta deck player, it's not interesting to do so - I often add a player if I enjoyed it's non-obvious, fun deck
Honestly I don't know. Maybe gold, yes. Losing stars is actually ok I guess.
English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
- how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
0% of the time, I play my own decks
- have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
No, I don't care about winning, but rather having fun. If I lose too much, I usually don't care, albeit from time to time I also like to win.
- how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
"All my friends are dead, push me to the edge". On a more serious note though, I rarely add people, so my list it always empty. Among those that I invited are people who play regularly.
- how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
I don't care for as long as the game is interesting or fun.
- how do you deal with losing streaks?
I don't.
- how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
I practically don't add people after matches, no matter the deck. Unless they invite me first, then I accept.
- do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
¯\_ツ_/¯
Losing is not punishing enough in this game.
thank you all for your replies! I enjoyed reading them. I've improved the quality of the post a bit (to give it more clarity), gotta still fix some redundancy and will continue to improve it. I think it's clear that I'm looking for the link between expensive deck building and losing giving basically no progress of any kind (except the joy of playing, in some cases!) as I'm trying to figure out why are most of my friends migrating to other card games.
I myself am a f2p since Naxx and have mostly been playing off-beat decks (a little hipster blood in me, and some deck building habits from MTG) however I have been having some difficulty enjoying this expansion despite it giving us a ton of great tools to play with. my friends list also basically died off with time, which hasn't been helpful! however, reading your replies on this topic is comforting, so yes, again, thank you all and please enjoy the Witchwood expansion.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
With three expansions a year and double class legendaries it's become more expensive to experiment around, definitely. Specially with dust values and pity timer still unchanged since time immemorial.
3 for 1 would be far more reasonable (preferably 2 for 1) considering those changes. 500 for DE'ing and 1500 to craft a Leg, 300 for an Epic and 30 for DEing a Rare. Commons should be far more accessible to craft at 20 instead of 40.
The pity timer could be 20 with the extra amount they'll be pumpin each year from now on.
Even pumping some money doesn't look like guaranteed value. I got the Welcome Bundle in December, the Mammoth Bundle in January and pre-ordered Witchwood. Was also seriously considering dropping $200 for 40 packs of each of the other four standard sets that I need to catch up (Classic, Un'Goro, KoFT and KnC).
After opening only two Legs in 78 packs, I reconsidered and didn't do it. Classic and the Mammoth year sets have 100 legendaries. Using $200 with a chance of getting only 4 out of 100 seems a ridiculously shitty deal. With a 20 pity timer it still could be 8 out of 100, which still isn't fantastic, but would be far, far less frustrating at least.
Yes, I know there are people who opened 8 in 80 packs and etc, "it's all to RNG", "bad luck", "that's how RNG works" and blablabla. It's really just bullshit. It shouldn't be up to so much RNG when spending money, specially if you want to buy the 40 pack+ options.
So buying packs seem there's a lot of chance to give so little value back. Dust is hard to come by. It's no wonder people save their resources for proved and tested decks. How many people can just spend so much money and dust to test a lot of things? Nah, I'm using my few resources to craft Cubelock or some Paladin variant.
This also "helps" a lot metas becoming stale or facing the same things repeatedly. It's far cheaper to build 1-2 proved and tested decks than it is to experiment or even meme around.
I believe every expac that report growing users and sales, but it’s not a game for everyone, Kobolds didn’t really see a lot of play from me but I’ve been all over WW and loved Knights. I’m not a f2p player tho. I’m also a dedicated mobile player. If HS didn’t have a mobile client I wouldn’t be so deep in.
I don't have time to reply to all of the questions, but I just wanted to put it out there that just playing Casual with a decent/fun homebrew is 10x more fun than trying to ladder, imo.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
1) how often do you play decks you don't really enjoy playing? (but are justified by good winrate)
Happened often when doing quests, although recently I reroll quests not according to gold but to match what I would play anyway. Less gold, but more fun.
2) have you ever crafted a deck that you absolutely enjoy playing, but eventually had to drop it because it wasn't giving you progress?
Yes, but some may not fit the intention of your question as they were not "weak" when I crafted them.
e.g. I crafted and absolutely loved playing Renolock. It was both fun to play and strong enough to hold its own vs anything (favored or unfavored, sure, but there was no autoloss).
I modified it after Reno rotated (played Krul/Kaza-lock a lot, which was never really meta/top, but I just loved the style of it), so you could say I dropped it because I wanted to stay in Standard (still occasionally play wild, with various decks though).
One that would probably fit your question perfectly is - Lakkari discolock :)
Crafted Lakkari Sacrifice and Clutchmother Zavas more for Warlock completion after everyone concluded that Quest Warlock sucked (but hey, I opened Blood-Queen Lana'thel, have to try it :)). I actually really enjoyed playing around with trying to make the deck work, but eventually dropped it because it was too random and frustrating to die to RNG (although when it worked, it did bring out some WOWs lol)
3) how are you guys doing with your friend lists? is it dead/dying/growing/full? are people you enjoy playing with staying in the game? etc.
Not changing much really, but it's very small.
4) how do you react to losing? what thoughts cross your mind on average?
If I lost to a perfect draw I could do nothing about or due to RNG being nuts, it's a bit annoying. If I lose consistently to a type of deck, I think of what to modify in my own to reduce/prevent those losses. I often tweak the deck I use in reaction to the most recent losses.
5) how do you deal with losing streaks?
I don't play much per day (typically 2-5 games), so big losing streaks don't really happen. Even if I have a losing streak one day, tomorrow the meta is different and I usually win some back.
This also helps prevent burnout and the "waaaah, meta is so boring!!!" syndrome.
6) how often do you add a meta deck player as opposed to a non-meta deck player after a match?
Meta or not, most important is how the game went. If it was a fun game with cool stuff happening (or recognizing some bluff / mind game between each other), I am more inclined to add to simply say gg, and keep contact with a cool player.
But yes, a completely non-meta deck I never saw before would probably make it more likely for me to be impressed by the game and thus add the player.
7) do you think that some reward for losing should also be given out, similar to for example Gwent? (carefully managed and gated to avoid abuse, of course)
Could be a reward for simply playing, sure (and a bigger reward for winning than measly 10g for 3 wins... more like 10g/win maybe?)
The worry here are bots, but that should be addressed in any case somehow differently as even the "gold just for winning" doesn't prevent them.
You cant complain cause u seem to be playing aggro deck according to each match time so it makes sense to face a lot of anti aggro decks cause thats what ppl play to counter the top decks which are cubelock and 3 or 4 variations of aggro pally