Hearthpwn

Hi there! I've been in beta for some months now and never got interested by murlocs decks (never tried them). But today I was spending some time on my cards collection and saw that I got every type of murloc but one, so I decided to craft this one in order to get the legendary murloc (too much spare dust).

As a main warlock player (I usually play Jaraxx-control, I WASN'T a fan of rush) I thought I could give murlocs deck a try, cause imo they got good synergy with this class, but it was just for "fun" and change the strategy a bit. I tried some normal games and totally crushed enemies by turns 5-6, so I decided to craft another copy of the epic murloc to see what could happen -> back again to some normals.

I was quite lucky with draws, but man, that was mad. I totally felt like a moronic maniac while swarming my poor enemies (in fact, it was funny as hell). So I said "OK, let's go ranked", and I climbed 2 ranks in a moment with it (made it to rank 14). Biggest problems are, obviously, AoE spells and taunts (good thing as warlock that you got some cheap Shadow Bolts or Soul Fires) but if you are lucky enough to draw some early Coldlight Seer you can go steamroll party.

Now, please don't jump on me, I know it's a shitty rank 14 and probably at higher ones you don't have a chance with a deck like this, but if you just wanna climb while in lower ranks, I think it works great AND IT'S REALLY FUNNY (Got a murlocs vs murlocs one, and I think it's been the funniest game I've ever had).

Now some questions, cause I'm completely new with this kind of deck: do you think it's good to swap ONE copy of the weakest murlocs (as the cost 1 with no effect) for stuff like Argus or SSC? I suppose you can get screwed cause you got lower chances on getting this for turn 1 (and getting Argus by turn 1 in your hand can be quite meh), but overall can it be better? Or just keep on swarming like mad and taking advance of the "Murloc racial"? I think it's just better to put murlocs til you explode, but I'm not sure. About Swamp Ooze, is it worth to put a copy? I'm running one right now.

And another question, for higher rank players, have you tried this deck in that ranks? Can it work, or is it just plain useless?

Have a nice day, and sorry for my English :3

<3

Just like Acidic Swamp Ooze against weapons, I think (and many people do) there should be a way to deal with secrets (just like hunters do with flare). So I decided to write a text with some ideas for class cards to deal / play around secrets. This ones should be GOOD vs secrets, while still being decent in no-secrets matches (just like said, Acidic Swamp Ooze's philosophy). You may think that secrets shouldn't have direct counters like that (apart from Flare), if that's the case, just explain please :)

So, here's a copy-paste of the text, I'll edit it with new ideas and fixes (and if I can find any typos: English isn't my language, sorry).

Playing around secrets:

Druid: Maybe something Emerald Dream related, or another ancient... Anyway, a minion with low damage and high health, that DISABLES secrets while in play, so they just don't pop until you kill/silence him.  Could be a minion with the typical druid: "Choose: this anti-secrets mechanic or another stuff".

DonFurr: Cyclone That class wont be able to get his Secrets played next turn cos hes cycloned and it also stops the usage of weapons for that turn.

Hunter: Already has Flare.

Mage: No ideas for now.

Paladin: I wanted something like an interrogator, and saw this post of another user, torst, that brought some interesting ideas, with some good tweaking from MSW112. The result could be a minion that, as battlecry, destroyed every enemy secret and dealt some fixed damage to enemy hero for each secret. In my opinion, should be a low cost, similar to Swap Ooze, so it's not useless vs non-secret classes.

Priest: 

DonFurr: Mass Silence into Mass Dispell cos that is the actual wow spell that this whole game is related 2. and be able to Mass Dispell secrets.

Rogue: A battlecry or combo mid cost minion (around 4 mana if it's combo mechanic) that steals one secret (enemy lose it, you get it, so nasty). The minion could be something like a Spy, similar to the SI:7 Agent. I like the concept but it's probably quite broken vs secret matches, and useless vs no-secrets matches. Gotta think about it :3

DonFurr: Rupture Removes secrets and does 1 dmg for 3 turns onto the champ, something along those lines. 

Shaman: A totem (no damage, but a but beefy), than absorbs every secret whenever it pops, so enemy lose it. Should have an additional effect for non-secret matches, could be a spell-magnet (like a spell-taunt) or something like that.

DonFurr: Windshock. Destroy 1 secret and Silence the target for the next turn.

Warlock: I just beg for this, Felhunter. Where in the hell is my überlovely warlock pet? I'm probably biased as fuck here, so stop me if necessary, it's just one of my favorite Warcraft creatures and I may go mad with this :___) It could work a bit like the paladin idea, but instead of damaging enemy X amount per destroyed secret, felhunter devours them and get stronger for each one. For non-secret matches, maybe could get stats for every enemy casted spell (after spell makes effect, he gets +1 damage or life, don't know). He could/should be a weak minion for its cost in non-effective situations, but can go mad if you don't take care. For example a 4 cost -> 3/3 minion that gets +1/1 for each devoured secret, and grows the same for each enemy spell casted? Don't know about numbers, but there's just the idea.

Warrior: I'd just add a destroy-secrets mechanic to Shield Slam, that requires at least X amount of armor (not a lot, maybe 3 or 4) to be casted on enemy hero (and deals no damage to heroes, just destroy secrets). Then that card would get much more value. If you think a new one would be better, just elaborate :3


So, this are some ideas. I know you may not agree with them, and that's the point, discuss about it and maybe we are lucky and something of this feedback gets to our lovely Blizzard (huehuehue). 

P.S: No matter if it's in this form or another, I want a fucking felhunter card right now D:

Quote from Flood_ »

@Eyepod I threw a chair at a window idk if that "Raging". I am just kidding :P Yeah if you look at my location on the right

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You will understand why I get my internet from a penguin riding a stationary bicycle as it generates my electric power (y) 

loled at that "right"

Hope you get your problem solved, and Blizzard to implement that reconnecting stuff :3

Quote from Ihmo »

Quote from VicVii »

Quote from Ihmo»

Quote from VicVii»

Nice to see some pr0 players think the real problem is Ice Block too. Being "spamming" this the last days in some mage threads. That secret is nuts, better nerf it so you can't run two in a row (or just insert any other new and fresh idea for it) and nerf Frost Nova to 3 mana, but keep CoC and Blizzard as they are now. My opinion is plain bullshit anyway, but there is.

Enjoy the last days of snowballing like mad, something like this had to happen D:

Actually, as a Mage player and someone who really understands how it works (at least from my perspective, since I was saying everything the pros are saying now a while ago), I can say your opinion is pretty close to what they should do. Except for Frost Nova, it should be 2 mana. It's Pyroblast who should be 9 mana, to avoid Pyro + Nova on t10. 

Well, that's exactly my point for the 3 cost nova, so that way, with Pyro costing 9 mana, would work too, but I think that's a harder nerf, actually. No more Pyro + Frost Bolt (or Ice Lances). In fact, as a mage "hater" I would prefer what you suggest. Gotta say we can agree with that :D

Believe me. A turn 9 pyro would nerf both Mage aggro (which is pretty DARN strong as well) and Mage Control, without destroying Mage Control completely and rendering Mage Aggro's already limited board control useless as well.

Yeh, yeh, I trust you :D

But I think that if Blizzard says now that they keep Nova at 2 mana and nerf Pyro to 9, the ammount of mage players exploding would be insane. But I get your point, and like what you suggest much more than the announced changes :3

Quote from Ihmo»

Quote from VicVii»

Nice to see some pr0 players think the real problem is Ice Block too. Being "spamming" this the last days in some mage threads. That secret is nuts, better nerf it so you can't run two in a row (or just insert any other new and fresh idea for it) and nerf Frost Nova to 3 mana, but keep CoC and Blizzard as they are now. My opinion is plain bullshit anyway, but there is.

Enjoy the last days of snowballing like mad, something like this had to happen D:

Actually, as a Mage player and someone who really understands how it works (at least from my perspective, since I was saying everything the pros are saying now a while ago), I can say your opinion is pretty close to what they should do. Except for Frost Nova, it should be 2 mana. It's Pyroblast who should be 9 mana, to avoid Pyro + Nova on t10. 

Well, that's exactly my point for the 3 cost nova, so that way, with Pyro costing 9 mana, would work too, but I think that's a harder nerf, actually. No more Pyro + Frost Bolt (or Ice Lances). In fact, as a mage "hater" I would prefer what you suggest. Gotta say we can agree with that :D

Nice to see some pr0 players think the real problem is Ice Block too. Being "spamming" this the last days in some mage threads. That secret is nuts, better nerf it so you can't run two in a row (or just insert any other new and fresh idea for it) and nerf Frost Nova to 3 mana, but keep CoC and Blizzard as they are now. My opinion is plain bullshit anyway, but there is.

Enjoy the last days of snowballing like mad, something like this had to happen D:

Seems like Blizzard doesn't agree with freeze being fun at all (thanks god, btw).

Anyway, I'd have gone for tweaking (nerf) Ice Block instead of nerfing every freezing AoE spell, but seems they wanna go that way. I'd just nerf Frost Nova and [hypothetical nerf] Ice Block, and leave CoC and Blizzard as they are now (not sure about Blizzard, but CoC as 4 mana feels quite meh). Let's see what happens.

Freeze might be tons of fun for mage players, yup.

As said, I can deal with hyperfunny freezing effects as long as they do something with Fireball, Pyroblast and Ice Block, last one being my biggest concern. I'd just simply delete that card, but because that may be too harsh, then at least make something like in WoW, and put mage a debuff (Hypothermia) when it pops, so it can't pop again next turn (cause two Ice Blocks in a row are the real rageddon).

So, nerf at least two of that three spells A LITTLE (no need of meganerfs when it's for two/three cards of the same class, which is quite a bit), or then just destroy the freezing mojito party, because BOTH things together are plain obnoxious. 

Just my two cents (actually just repeating this in every thread about "mage nerfs", because people don't get bored of opening more and more about the same thing).

Have a nice day, sweeties :D

Then, as a warlock main, I'd love to have that spell cards that deal [mana cost + 2] damage, and be able to throw them at my enemy face too, while not hurting myself / making me lose cards. I mean, don't tell me "Oh my gosh, warlock has Soul Fire!" cause I prefer something like Fireball / Pyro a million times. I'd be happy with a 4 mana cost -> 6 damage free target nuke (just like Fireball) even if it hurts myself for 2 damage or something like that when I cast it (what I find terrible is the discard mechanic of Soul Fire, making it only "reliable" for me as a finisher, because I tend to always lose the card I need more). But then you'll have to make an analysis of the whole warlock cards collection and balance around that... so yeh, it's just pure dreaming, just saying it as a silly example to show how "lovely" are that mage spells. What I mean is that IN MY OPINION any class would be "happy" with swapping 80% spells with mage, even if their versions had some drawback (like my example with self damage). They are just too good in comparison with other classes.

I know that what I said sounds a bit stupid, but if you wanna buff other classes, and taking warlock as an example again (just because it's the class I know better, I know they aren't precisely weak), what would you do? Make Shadow Bolt a 3 cost, 5 damage that can be casted on enemy hero? Just like mage formula, so they can be at the "same level of power". Even while keeping its current 4 damage, just being able to throw at enemy hero would be great.

Finally, just gotta say I'm typing this as a way to discuss about this hypothetical way to buff the other classes as some of you propose, not like a ranting. What would you make? Oh, and what do you think about some being able to cast a gazillion spells on enemy hero and others not? Cause I know making every class look the same is not cool, but I think that this ability of nuking enemy face while ignoring anything on the board (insert taunts) is quite stronk, and some classes are much better than others in this area, mages being godly, for both their control/tempo abilities and the power of their nuke spells themselves.

Sorry for my English, hope you could understand (I'll edit if I can see any typo). Have a nice day :)

Quote from UserNotFound »

@VicVii: Wow your eyes must be really red. Thats one huge bulk of whine there.

"mega-cheap secrets" is a nice way of discribing the most costly secrets in the game. I do agree that mages are slightly OP in the current meta, but hell you guys are overdoing it.

 

I'm in absolute calm, actually, just a rude vocabulary user. So nice try, but that's not my case, won't go that mad because of a game ;)

And yep, when I say mega-cheap secrets, it's because for their use, they are actually cheap and super easy to cast in any mid-late game turn with another spell / minion. Would love mages to have, for example, hunter like secrets, because while still being useful, they don't make as obnoxious plays as mage secrets do. If you want to understand it, fine, if not I don't mind anyway ^^

And BTW, I haven't asked for any terrible nerf, I said in my first comment that my real concern is with Ice Block being a x2 card, when I think that only x1 would be enough. Or at least have a debuff just like in WoW where mages can't Ice Block twice in a row, so you still got a chance to kill him next turn and not Ice Block again right after.

Bye bye, little flowers.

Quote from Ihmo »

Oh yeah, because playing minions isn't lazy strategy as well...

You complain about freeze, about board removal? Simply don't play a lot of minions at the same time, then. It's THAT simple.

I'll agree on Ice Block though, there should be a way for everyone to remove it, not just Hunters.

Well, if you gonna say that playing/using minions is as lazy as keeping on clicking a card and freeze/kaboom everyone just with that, I don't think I can have a discussion here. If you don't play any minions, mage will just melt your face. If you play just some of your minions (non rush), they have so many spells (or they can use the few minions they tend to have), so they can deal with that easy mode while keeping the big removal for whenever is necessary. And the big joke is that all their stuff is so mana efficient that they can almost [and actually] do both things at the same time (plus you still gotta add all the mega-cheap secrets to the ecuation, which not only are strong, but a plain headache).

Mage is just the class that can do what others can (except for freeze, their only-mage obnoxious gamestyle), but just with much more and better ammunition, and no risk at all (no discard, no overload, no self-damage, no fresh mojito... just insanely good mana efficiency) and one of the strongest and most versatile hero power (uses for enrage, break divine shield, delete minions, throw to your face).

I don't think I can add much more to the table, I'm playing the same game as every of you and like many people, the only class that feels just annoying and unfair as hell, is mage. When metagame was about another class, I could think "OK, then let's just add this cards / change to X strategy so you can beat them while still being able to deal with any other class", but that doesn't work against mages. As said, I've always hated them, now is just too much for the lame abuse-mage-party.

Have a nice day.

Quote from Hearthsam »

It's a combination of things that really peeve me off with mage.

I'm quite new to the game and I've taken a liking to Rogue. I have an impressive board with multiple minions out of flamestrike range, and she has none, and for 2 mana she casts Frost Nova which nullifies my minion's damage for a turn while she gets to do whatever with her remaining mana, which usually revolves around pinging me down or random fireballs/frostbolts/ice lances to the face. Then she proceeds to do this for six turns with no-brainer board freezes where as a Rogue my only direct damage output is through weapons, eviscerates, and my two southsea deckhands (I don't have enough dust to make commanders yet, but the deckhands work nicely). If I've somehow managed to survive through that, I still have to break through ice barriers and two free turns of ice block. What exactly am I supposed to do against this? I really don't understand.

It irks me so much because it just feels obnoxious to play against. There's no concept of trading minions efficiently, just cast one spell a turn and ignore the board. Spellpower Druid was nerfed with Wrath and Starfall able to only hit minions, but mage was untouched? I don't really mind pyroblast that much, but I think something really needs to be done about the silly AoE freezes and ice block giving free turns. If every class stands a fighting chance against each other, but you need specific setups of immense self healing (paladins, druids) to reliably trounce a mage, isn't something wrong here?

Happy to see someone who feels more or less the same way as me. Everybody is complaining about pyroflower, which is a bit annoying (call it lame if you want), but it's OK at the same time. The real problem with mages, in my opinion, is that crazy amount of megalazy frost spells (as I said before, I find Ice Block to be the ultimate lamer spell/secret in game). You wanna melt my face with no brain and just throwing spells to my face? OK, I can deal with it. But at the same time just stop [freeze] / destroy every movement I make is just annoying as hell. Their spells mana curve is plain mad, and even with their so obvious strategies, it's just überhard to find a way to deal with them, while using a deck that can work against the other classes.

Seriously, now I get why mage is the tutorial hero, it's with difference the most zero-skill-high-reward one, you don't even have to use that coconut in your head at all to make good plays with Jaina. Not saying that other heroes are so hard to play with, but mage right now is just an obnoxious joke. And I gotta say that even if you don't consider them OP (and I think they are), their gamestyle is super stupid. I'm OK with the hard focus on spells, but man, they are cost efficient as hell, and so easy to make them work with no risk.

I play a deck that I find "viable" while maybe not optimal, but it's the deck I enjoy to play, and I find I can deal with any other class with a decent win ratio, but mage. Gotta say that, in fact, it's a bit focused to counter mages (with some heals and that stuff) and even with that, I tend to win many times against any class but vs mage it's just a terrible headache.

Have a nice day.

Quote from Eyepod »

And btw, that would make epic cards a bit more epic (call it exclusive if you prefer, for being just x1), cause they don't actually feel so "cool" right now, they are just some generally strong-side cards, some of them more niche than others, but nothing special. Prob the most epic, epic card would be Gorehowl (lorewise).

That exclusivity is rightfully reserved for legendaries. Otherwise epic & legendary would basically be identical if you neglected the dust. That would reduce the excitement of obtaining a legendary and also make it much easier to collect all cards in the game (which in turn is something Blizzard tries to avoid).

Legendaries are still much more expensive to craft (which I don't think it's an avoidable fact), and rarer to get in arena runs. Don't know, can't see the issue with that, but maybe that's just me. About collecting all cards, well, they are supposed to be adding much more cards in the future, so I don't see a problem about that aspect neither.

IMO it's much more important to reach balance in game, and that [epic x1] could be a way to fix some issues, and work as a "filter" to add new epic cards that could work fine as x1 and be quite broken as x2, like it happens right now with some of them.

Again, that's just my opinion, you may not agree with me. Have a nice day :)

Quote from Dustinhunkss »

lol this would cripple the mage. That means they get a single pyro too.

That's as easy as turning Pyro into a rare card, so you can still have x2, and I'd make some balance adjustements as the suggested (at least 9 mana cost, because Pyro + Frost Bolt is just insane damage for one turn). And you can do that epic-to-rare swap with any other card that is OK x2 in a deck, with the necessary adjustements (in arenas they could appear more often, that's true).

And btw, that would make epic cards a bit more epic (call it exclusive if you prefer, for being just x1), cause they don't actually feel so "cool" right now, they are just some generally strong-side cards, some of them more niche than others, but nothing special. Prob the most epic, epic card would be Gorehowl (lorewise).

My biggest problem with mages is Ice Block, I find that shit card fucking stupid and annoying as hell. No matter if you run a deck to "counter" them, with heals and all that stuff, that 2 extra turns they get is the most moronic thing in the game. Add that to the fact that IN GENERAL they are a quite strong class that can control the game from early to late easily (and in a really lazy way), so good luck. My last game vs a mage was completely sick: you are making real plays, with an "elaborated plan", baiting their amazing fire balls / pyros (at least as a warlock you can heal via some semi-decent minions + spells or drop Jaraxxus post-burst), then you manage to survive the obvious 1st Ice Block, but next turn they just play another one, and after that they just throw some frost bolts and gg.

They are the most antifun games ever, always hated them as a class (much longer before this tard meta mage party). I don't even salute or give a "gg" to this players, just wanna smash their face on their desks for abusing that single deck, game after game, with that obvious and repetitive strategy. Had a similar feeling with priests just after their old buff patch, but you can learn how to easily beat them. On the other hand, mages... Oh, man. With all that über-annoying secrets (they got the best ones with difference, imo), and that unavoidable burst that requires zero skill...

Meh, I'm ranting quite a bit, I know, but as said, I've always hated their gamestyle and nowadays you gotta deal with them about 70-80% of your games, which is insane. And yes, of course you can run a deck 100% prepared for that scenarios, but sometimes you gotta deal with other classes, so you just can't go ranked with a blind anti-mage deck.

You may disagree with me, but I think many Epic Cards (such as Ice Block) should be maximum x1. 

Whatever, that's just my opinion. Sorry for my English, and have a nice day/night.