I've played it both ways, and I prefer the prince to the outfitters. To deal with a lack of 2-drops, I've added those flame elemental 1 drops, which gives you a turn 2 play if you don't get the prince in your opening hanf, and removed curator in favor of cobalt scalebanes - good anti-priest tech and a must-remove-quickly board state.
I did it with other using a deck that was basically ALL buffs plus a couple of those 1/1 windfury beasts and doomsayers. Hard mulligans for the 1/1, keep it alive at all costs and buff it constantly, it starts doing 8-12dmg per turn, kill him by turn 7 or he gets you. Took me about 15 mulligans for 3 runs, got him the 3rd time. Total budget answer, but cheese can be good in PVE.
I've pulled it off several times. You need 2 coins and a secret, which with burgly bullies and neurologist are easy to get. The real trick is figuring out whether to stall until you can pull the combo off or play straightforward control and try to close the game out early. Card management is a must, since you're holding 4-5 cards to perform the otk.
I used some of the thoughts on this thread after my post and did much better. Focused on balance of board control and face. Even faced a hunter who played Eaglehorn Bow on turn 3 and beat him.
Thanks for your thread and your reply post. (I've been considering Nesting Roc, but want to play with it in current setup some more.
In mirror matches, I find it helps to play long turns. Since I know 25+ cards in that deck, I can make good guesses about what they will do next turn, and play around it. I sometimes bluff, playing as if I have different secrets in play than I do, which makes them misplay Into them. Mind games all day in mirror matches.
I doubt they are nerfing The Caverns Below, because it is OP. In fact they claimed themselves that their winrate is about 50%, which seems to be supported by sites like Vicious Syndicate. I think the best comparison to make here is with Yogg-Saron, Hope's End (which was proven to not improve the winrate of decks by that much after the nerf). Cards that are very frustrating for the opponent are nerfed to accommodate the playerbase and especially so if they happen to be very effective at causing this frustration (with Yogg there was no playing around its game-determining swings which could lose the opponent an already won game, whereas Rogue can do crazy things with Preparation and chargers).
We can take a similar deck that was labeled by many as the 'control killer', which is Jade Druid. Why didn't they nerf that? I think that they didn't even consider it because it is not so easy to get to your win condition (not as easy as QR is certainly) with the Druid having to draw a lot of their deck to get to the point where they can win and, coupled with this, the fact that they want control decks to play in a more proactive way (which Jade Druid forces them to do), while still retaining the essence of a control deck. With QR you have to apply pressure to the opponent's life total even quicker than against a Jade Druid, especially due to the charger's ability to tear at your health insanely fast. In the end though, I don't think this nerf will completely kill the deck, but it will probably be nowhere near as competitive anymore, since your win condition is probably being postponed a turn or two.
This exactly. I typically climb the ladder with secret mage, and my winrate right now is 47% against quest rogue. Not terrible, not great, but its SUPER draw dependant. I have to be able to play my deck like a burn/aggro deck to have ANY chance against quest rogue, even with glyph giving me burn spells. Quest rogue has a fair (balanced) win rate overall against the field, but the issue with it is that you have to know face is the place, or it'll out-value you around turn 6 and then own the rest of the game from there.
The issue isn't overall win rate, its that QR is the only deck that ONLY loses to super-aggro and wins against anything else, which reduces the field against it and balances toward aggro in the meta. I hear people in these forums bitch about everything bending aggro all the time, and QR is one reason why that happens.
I'm glad its just a 1-minion bump to the quest, that makes it still possible to complete, but allows for mid-range decks to have a shot at beating them.
Low probablility isn't quite the same as no probability. Worked in a casino and I've seen things, this event is unlikely but not impossible. And has to happen to someone and unfortunately it seems it has happened to you. Maybe the next 20 games you'll find him in your mulligan every game.
This forever. People have a hard time recognizing that long streaks of good or bad luck are common in things that are either random or pseudo random, simply because we're trained to look for patterns. Randomness means that a long streak of hits or misses is just as likely as a fair mix of both, and its part of why packs have the pity timer - to reduce the bad feelings that randomness causes.
Sorry. Quest Rogues not dominating? I am a new player and its not fun to get rogues. Its disencouring to play with them in the game. Most of the time by turn 7 you are dead. I had rogues summoning quest by turn 5. I am rank15 which is not high but with 30 days playing i am pretty sure i can distinguish whats right and whats not. And Quest Rogues are not.
Correct. Quest Rogue is not dominating.
According to the most recent vS meta report, Quest Rogue has between a 49.1% and 50.34% win rate. By comparison, the highest decks are around 53%. So, even though the meta is very diverse, and a lot of decks are floating around the 50% win rate, it is incorrect to say that Quest Rogue is dominating.
However, Quest Rogue is centralizing in a way that doesn't feel very good. (It reminds me a bit of when Garchomp was first banned.)
Teching in a stampeding kodo and some kind of dragon (looking at primordial drake here) will give you more long game and allow you to add The Curator to tutor them into your hand. Makes it a more mid-range deck, but slower paladin decks work well in the current meta.
I've been poking at the idea, but it hasn't really come together the way I want yet. I can do good tempo with no good win condition, or bad tempo and stall to jaraxus, but neither really has the oomph I want. I'll post a decklist if I get it working the way I want it to.
I find that watching videos of pros playing the decks I don't play is helpful for me. As I watch them, I learn the common deck lists in the meta, and I get insight into how they will respond to my plays. The more I know how they think, the better I play against that deck. So if possible watch people play AGAINST the deck you play, because it helps you counter-play and bluff and teaches you which turns tend to be "swing turns" for them.
The real balance issue here is that this is card-neutral and replicating. The frustrating part of jade druid is that, once you run the deck out, it's all jade golems, all the time. This card gives you that and deck thinning and ping damage, all for nothing. If you ran it as a 2 cost without card draw but with the "add one to your deck" language, it would end up as a well costed, frequently used ping damage that enables Antonidus in control and tempo mage both.
I've got a lot of respect for N'zoth in the right deck, but Elise is just so damned fun to pull the pack out of that I have to say go with her. Also as a control Paladin in standard, I've literally turned around games that went into fatigue because of her.
Bonus points for the game where my pack had a golden Elise in it, giving me a second, all golden pack.
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I've played it both ways, and I prefer the prince to the outfitters. To deal with a lack of 2-drops, I've added those flame elemental 1 drops, which gives you a turn 2 play if you don't get the prince in your opening hanf, and removed curator in favor of cobalt scalebanes - good anti-priest tech and a must-remove-quickly board state.
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I did it with other using a deck that was basically ALL buffs plus a couple of those 1/1 windfury beasts and doomsayers. Hard mulligans for the 1/1, keep it alive at all costs and buff it constantly, it starts doing 8-12dmg per turn, kill him by turn 7 or he gets you. Took me about 15 mulligans for 3 runs, got him the 3rd time. Total budget answer, but cheese can be good in PVE.
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I've pulled it off several times. You need 2 coins and a secret, which with burgly bullies and neurologist are easy to get. The real trick is figuring out whether to stall until you can pull the combo off or play straightforward control and try to close the game out early. Card management is a must, since you're holding 4-5 cards to perform the otk.
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I would pull one outfitter and depending on whether you see a lot of pirates, the crawler.
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Teching in a stampeding kodo and some kind of dragon (looking at primordial drake here) will give you more long game and allow you to add The Curator to tutor them into your hand. Makes it a more mid-range deck, but slower paladin decks work well in the current meta.
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I find that watching videos of pros playing the decks I don't play is helpful for me. As I watch them, I learn the common deck lists in the meta, and I get insight into how they will respond to my plays. The more I know how they think, the better I play against that deck. So if possible watch people play AGAINST the deck you play, because it helps you counter-play and bluff and teaches you which turns tend to be "swing turns" for them.
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The real balance issue here is that this is card-neutral and replicating. The frustrating part of jade druid is that, once you run the deck out, it's all jade golems, all the time. This card gives you that and deck thinning and ping damage, all for nothing. If you ran it as a 2 cost without card draw but with the "add one to your deck" language, it would end up as a well costed, frequently used ping damage that enables Antonidus in control and tempo mage both.
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I've got a lot of respect for N'zoth in the right deck, but Elise is just so damned fun to pull the pack out of that I have to say go with her. Also as a control Paladin in standard, I've literally turned around games that went into fatigue because of her.
Bonus points for the game where my pack had a golden Elise in it, giving me a second, all golden pack.
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Edit for double post. I'm sure there is a functional way to template the idea.
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I would prefer a 5 cost that says "Summon your choice of animal companion, give it Battlecry: adapt"