Hearthpwn

I feel Doomguard is getting changed in exactly that way because they don't like charge as a mechanic that can be abused. I do feel Dark Pact  should silence the minion it destroys. If they want the card to be able to trigger deathrattles that fine but they should take out the heal effect.

Lastly please make is so that Lackey has to die on the opponents turn to activate the effect. I would pick this choice if they don't want to change dark pact. 

Quote from Shaveyou >>

Honestly, this has to be high cost, otherwise it would be huge for DK Rexxar. The poisonous means the attack doesn't matter, and already, with Stegodon, it would make a 9 mana 3/9 Poisonous Rush Taunt. Just realised it would be in pool 2, so no Stegodon. It could be used with Exploding Bloatbat as a 9 mana board clear, or Cave Hydra as a 3 minion removal, or Witchwood Grizzly in the same vein as Stegodon. In wild it would work well with Dispatch Kodo and Fiery Bat, serving as a remove 2 minions for 9 with Kodo, or 1 + potentially 1 random with with Bat. Gives more options for a Dreadscale poisonous combo as well.

On it's own merits... It's not a good card. Could see play if comboing with Bestial Wrath becomes a thing, but I really really doubt it.

I think this is a playable card, especially for players with a lacking collection. You would not play this card to buff a 1/3 though because most classes with 1 drops with stats like this don't play that many other 1 drops. This can see play in Hunter and Warlock (Zoo) and maybe aggro pali because they can use a buff like this during the early and mid-games without losing absolute tempo. They also can capitalize on this on curve thanks to all of their 1-drops

I get the whole arena problem but that not a power level problem its a rarity problem. If we get a new removal they can just make it "rare" or "epic" and than arena won't be affected.

Yep I think so to, looks like we will be able to play our own style of a value deck. I do hope we get some other type of damage or removal this round too because its somethings we need. It can even be something that is conditional like only target minions but we need some all the same. Anyone think we are going to get something like that?

Wow, you read it all that fast? LOL! Yea I want control rogue but we will need a lot of tools to make that happen.

How’s it going guys, I am making this post to discuss the new direction of the class as how I see it. I would like to hear all opinions and remember this is just speculation on trends that I am seeing from the cards we have so far. (I know we should wait for all the cards but don’t tell me you don’t want to take on a bet at being right)

Okay first things first, where are we now as a class? We are in a meta that is fast, sticky and high value oriented but the problem with rogue at the moment is none of our tools support this style of play so we have to counter it. We have 2 things we do well in today’s meta that allows us to be competitive 1) we have the ability to cycle/draw more than most classes in the game which help with keeping up with the speed and curve of other decks 2) We have the ability to arrest tempo back from or opponents which forces them to react and conform to our pace. The second point is something that I think is one of the true identities of the class and it should always be an aspect that is around. The first point is the line which limits design space for players (not sure about Blizz tho) because we at this point have to have this cycle just to keep up with other decks because the rest of our cards don’t bring a lot of value to the deck. This is point I see changing in the new set.

Right now we give up A LOT of value to have the tools to swing and keep tempo in a game. Cards likeFan of Knives, Sap, Shiv, Sprint, Blade Flurry and even Backstab are most haves in decks right now and they all have something in common. These cards lack independent value and normally in other cases would kill tempo but because rogue has all this cycle we can set a pace in a game that doesn’t have to rely on value and can bring together tools to swing tempo faster and cheaper than other classes. The problem is, this forces a play style that forces heavy resource spending to gain advantage which is a big complaint from rogue players looking to stray from combo oriented to tempo/minion focused.

So what do I see coming down the line?? I see a tempo rogue and raptor variants being the number 1 & 2 in the rogue lineup. Why? It’s simple Blizz is pushing cards that sacrifice tempo but ultimately give back resources, in other words adds some value back to your deck or hand which is the opposite direction of what we see now. But wouldn’t this be just as bad because if you can’t stay on board do to the lack of high tempo cards how are you going to capitalize on the value you are receiving? Don’t forget what I said before about rogue; it has and should still have the ability, even after nerfs, to swing tempo in big and cheap ways. Allowing rogue players to manage gaining value for spending of tempo or to sacrifice tempo to gain a little more value is something that we don’t have yet and it should keep the class complex and puzzle like. The flexibility to change the type of play-style to suit a particular game is something we needed!

Tempo rogue is the new deck around the block (not talking Raptor). Look at Season 1 and to Season 2 tempo rogue decks and imagine making a variation today with cards like Undercity Huckster, Xaril [/card] and [card]Shadowcaster.

The real problem is that Blizzard designed the class with the wrong idea which they admit. They stated (somewhere i forget) that hunter was meant to be a more of a control class that HP puts the enemy on the clock. So to me I guess that instead of filling the class with lots of threats to drop on board, your hero was meant to be the the big threat. They really need to redesign the class if they have no design space to make viable control tools. The biggest mistake I think that was made in the last few expansions is that they gave these really good stand alone beast to Druid which hunter needed more (not same effect of course). Hunter Beast should be stronger lore wise because they are trained in combat and Druid Beast should be weaker because they are calling them from nature to help; atleast that is how i see it.

They may add it later as a feature but don't forget that changes to the UI can be really tricky. Let them implement these first few changes and get them right and then hit them up with this shop idea.

Quote from stasis13 >>

Quote from SonofLoke >>

Quote from Lavern0 >>

Quote from Flood >>

Quote from vikan >>

 They are not bad indeed but they are not in a fine spot either.. rogue is so sensitive to nerfs and new cards and could easily be miracle OP once again or pre-oil-useless in the meta... the class has been nerfed to much .

 They are in a fine spot they have one diffnatlly viable tier 2 deck Oil rouge, raptor has had some sucseful runs and Miracle and Malygos are both hitting high legend so thats 3 partially viable decks and 1 tier 4... how is that not in a good spot? 

I know the history of nerfs and how sensitive rogue is, but that doesnt mean it is in a bad spot the class will probably be stale for a while until like a new theme they will try and push for the class emerges, but until then as long as it stays tier 2 there is nothing making it a bad class. 

 Depends on what you assume being tier 2. Rogue is the least class played currently, and for months. I think there would be far more rogue on ladder if the class itself was tier 2.

 There is nothing wrong with really strong cards. I want to know how you think this card is broken. This card equips a 1/2 weapon on turn two with a body that is it. How exactly is this card breaking the game? The best move and most broken thing I see this card doing is T2=2/2 or 2/3 body + a 1/2 dagger, T3 Deadly + 2 drop. Are you afraid of the tempo gain because just saying its broken says nothing. 

 The value of this card needs to be compared to something like Shielded minibot b/c Minibot is a 2/2 body with a divine shield that equates to a 2/1, in total minibot is lke a 4/3 minion. Obviosuly, it is open to silence, blood knight, and it can be dealt with in other ways as well. Divine shield is accosted a total of one mana with shielded minibot, but with other non-class minions like Scarlet Crusader, it has a cost of 3 mana (mana cost * 2 +1, SC 3/1 = 4, therefore DS = 3, spider tank 3/4 = 7) Also I'm using shielded minbot as an example because other rogue two drop minions are no where near as good as this card. 

Now your card, has a battlecry, that lets you equip your hero power for free. That is at least 3 mana plus the 2 mana to the 2/3 body, if not more cause you have a total of two damage that can be used very flexibly, i.e. with poisons or flurry. 

Quote from Lavern0 >>

Quote from Flood >>

Quote from vikan >>

 They are not bad indeed but they are not in a fine spot either.. rogue is so sensitive to nerfs and new cards and could easily be miracle OP once again or pre-oil-useless in the meta... the class has been nerfed to much .

 They are in a fine spot they have one diffnatlly viable tier 2 deck Oil rouge, raptor has had some sucseful runs and Miracle and Malygos are both hitting high legend so thats 3 partially viable decks and 1 tier 4... how is that not in a good spot? 

I know the history of nerfs and how sensitive rogue is, but that doesnt mean it is in a bad spot the class will probably be stale for a while until like a new theme they will try and push for the class emerges, but until then as long as it stays tier 2 there is nothing making it a bad class. 

 Depends on what you assume being tier 2. Rogue is the least class played currently, and for months. I think there would be far more rogue on ladder if the class itself was tier 2.

Quote from Flood >>

Quote from SonofLoke >>

 I never once said that rogue needed these cards, I created these cards because I feel at the moment that rogues are just forced to play combo decks. I also feel that we don't have cards that let us be flexible and create new decks and I think these cards allow for that.

1st Card: We can argue about the balance but rogues do not have a strong turn 2 minion, most of them are just situational. In today's meta early tempo matters and a 2/3 or 2/2 that give the dagger I feel, falls in line with other class 2 drops. You can't compare this to weapons smith because warriors and rogues are really different.

2nd Card: Okay you can't just say that a card is complicated because it will require too much art. I am sure Blizzard has a gallery of unused basic art templates or something if they felt that didn't want to invest in new art for the reagents. Also can you explain why you think this is a complicated card but other discover cards are not.

3rd Card: I understand that it can't hit face but I found it really hard to find a balance were this would not just be OP. I feel what rogues could use right now is more direct damage cards, we really only have EVIS and Backstab. Also this card can hit face for 3 if you have not combo'd it maybe wording is the problem but I still think we need a card similar to this.

 I am saying giving a 1/2 weapon is OP when a 4 mana 3/3(thats yes 2 mana for a 2/2 weapon 2 mana for a vanilla 3/3) 2 mana for a 1/2 and 2/3 of stats is way to much look at Fencing Coach way to good op. 

2nd that will be the one discover card that has SIX UNIQUE CARDS that were created just for one, that 7 art and 7 golden animations  Also that is so so Op 4 mana 3/5 trades with shredder and draws you a card  that is also a spell and holy shit are some of those op deadly regent sapping one wtf. and the 4 mana one is terrible. 

3rd is just bad why would a rogue hold a card like that that cant go face? assassinate is much better for minion removal and it is a shit card, sap will beat it every day and you dont understand how but it is because it cant go face, compare it to flame lance, I know that the 3 damage can go face but then you couldnt prep it out and go face and you can spell damage then have it go face you cant play it after you played another, terrible 

you have no idea how to design cards

How so?

Quote from Flood >>

Rogue doesnt need any of this, they are in a fine spot.  The first card is broken, (look atArathi Weaponsmith). 2nd card is way to complicated requires to much art and has way to much value and variance. 3rd is just weird but bad because it cant go face if you combo

Quote from Fishoo >>

Reagents are way too convoluted. Everything else seems fine, but need balance.