• 1

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far
    Quote from palpitoad93 >>
    Quote from scorpyon >>

    As we see here, Rogue is curently third highest in the win rate statistics for Ranked.

    Warrior is topping it (with Shaman close by - as I mentioned, I've not played against a Shaman deck yet).
    So my analysis so far has been pretty close, even without the figures.  The only real surprise is Mage - I thought deck had been performing a lot better than it apparently is.

     What is worth noting though, is that Rogue has been played almost DOUBLE that of most of the other decks - hence why we are seeing so many of them right now...

     I should've stopped reading when you said Quest Rogue is the most powerful deck of all time. When did you start playing? February 2017?
    In any case Quest Rogue only has a high winrate at lower ranks because the bad players don't know how to properly tech against it/play against it. There are tons of decks at rank 5+ and legend that run it over. Aggro has Pirate Warrior, Murloc Shaman, Murloc Paladin, and Token Druid which can all put the Quest Rogue into kill range before they even complete the Quest. Midrange has Beast Hunter and Discard Zoo which are proactive enough to apply enough pressure that the Rogue can either choose to clear the board and delay the quest or get blown out by a Houndmaster/Defender of Argus turn. Even Control has a good matchup if you build it properly, that being Taunt Warrior with 2x Dirty Rat 2x Brawl. All of these decks are significantly favoured over Quest Rogue (think like 60%). Quest Rogue actually only has an abysmal 46% winrate at legend by the way. It's Miracle Rogue that has the >50% winrate at legend, and not coincidentally, Quest Rogue is a dying fad at the upper ranks while Miracle Rogue is seeing more and more prominent play.
     I should have stopped reading after that first unnecessary comment about when I started playing. 
    For the record, I've been playing since Beta, and before that, since the inception of WoW TCG where I ranked 5th at the national level. But none of that matters and nobody really cares, so let's put our manhoods away and be grown ups, hey?
    Ok, good. :-)
    The trouble with claiming that the winrate is only high in the lower ranks is that you have failed to take into context the fact that the upper ranks (say, from 10+) consist of a vastly smaller population of players than the lower.
    From the last end-of-season reward, I was ranked 7th (iirc) and was told that I was in the top 5% of players (or something). So let's be generous and say that rank 10+ is in the top 10% of players.
    And now lets say that above this rank, the winrate is a VERY conservative 45% (it's more than that, but let's be over cautious). And then let's say that the win rate below rank 10 is much higher, as you suggest. So let's say 65%.
    That means that the overall winrate for the deck across all skill levels is in fact: 63% ! 
    A much, much higher figure than the higher rank 45%. 
    It's a big, big fallacy to assume that just because a deck does not sit in the top 10 (or whatever) decks for the game in terms of ladder that it is not the best deck out there. A deck that destroys all but the most well-teched decks against us is still a deck that destroys most decks. The reason some other decks are sitting so highly is because they are specifically geared up to beat this deck (which is one of the meta-defining decks so far).
    So this comment: "Quest Rogue actually only has an abysmal 46% winrate at legend" means literally nothing to anyone except for a handful of players who teched against it and shows a sever lack of understanding about how decks are measured up against each other across the full player base.
    And you implied I was new to the game... ouch! That's got to sting...
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Pirate Warrior is as Dominant As Ever....
    Quote from PAH >>
    Quote from Werner_92 >>
    Quote from PAH >>

    Charge just needs to be fixed, really.

     You really think charge is the problem in pirate warrior? Not the 50 weapon synergies?  xDDDDDD
     Well weapons are just charges in a different form--I should have been more clear. You should almost never be able to attack face with something played out of hand.
    I just faced a PW in casual... so weird lol
     I think the whole weapon mechanic probably does need a rethink - it is essentially a spell to the face/minion over multiple turns.
    And the fact it confers charge to the Hero makes it very powerful and uncounterable efficiently. The oozes are out too late to really have much effect on a 2-durability weapon after it swings.
    If weapons did not allow charge, it would open the door to cards that do allow your hero to attack on the same go. That would be a much more interesting mechanic for me. Auto-charge weapons hafve always been a bugbear to the game.
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far
    Quote from Bibikis >>

    I don't get it. What Rogue Quest reviews? Do you mean the endless posts of un-constructive whine or what? Also that statistics your sharing shows it has perhaps the healthiest win rate of them all but not at the top. That's how a deck should be like. 
    You say one thing while your own posted evidence goes against you. How will you have it?

    A quick overview of the Heathtracker and Meta Stat  proves as much as well. It's not even top 15. And here is a source link directly to that - http://metastats.net/decks/winrate/

    And while we're at it, let's check one of those lists - http://metastats.net/deck/d5456ca5-1a34-4832-8f83-c8ab990f06f2/last7/

    Or it's secondary list - http://metastats.net/deck/6336a30e-a7f0-4c27-95e8-52e2b94e0589/last7/

    And ofc it has a higher winrate according to stats at lower ranks. Almost every deck has that. It's because how the ladder system works with these kind of formulas. 


    Who ever said, "The most overpowered HS decks OF ALL TIME!", perhaps that's a quote from you? I don't know but I would be embarrassed. 

     You seem a touch angsty in your reply, so I'll be brief and to the point. If you re-read the comments in the article, there is a link to a metabomb article that describes the QR deck as "Quest Rogue is not just your best option for the class right now, but perhaps the best deck in the entire game. "
    As you can see, my comment was more for effect than a direct quote. A paraphrase perhaps. I would probably be more embarrassed about writing a reply that proved I didn't bother to read the comments and information in the thread before leaping to that Reply button.
    There is also a perfectly good explanation of the statistics for you if you bother to read the other comments and learn about how the stats are compiled and what they mean. 
    It's a shame (or perhaps convenient?) that none of the links you provided actually show any info or even a web page (at least, they don't load anything here). Just 503 errors... 
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Discardlock without quest stronger?

    The trick with the deck (I have found) is never to mindlessly play the quest on Turn 1. 
    It's a really bad tempo play. 

    You want to drop your Imp or Voidwalker out early on, to get teh early control. The mistake a lot of people seem to make with this deck is in thinking it should play like an early game aggro deck.It's not. It's early control with mid-game aggro.

    Posted in: Warlock
  • 1

    posted a message on Any official response from blizzard yet?

    And when you look at the winrate for the actual Rogue decks that are built properly its a much more different story.

    As yuo can see here, the better Rogue decks are closer to a 60% win rate!

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 6

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far

    So, while this is not a complete analysis, these are my overall thoughts about the Quests so far and what's good / bad about them.

    Rogue 
    At present, this seems to be seriously overpowered. It's no accident that every review is calling this one of the most overpowered HS decks OF ALL TIME!  (Dun! Dun! DUUUUN! - Pause for dramatic effect...)
    If for nothing else than the fact that there seems little that you can do about the health and attack of the minions. 
    Case in point: I just played a game against a Shaman and he devolved my board. Like that made a difference. I actually felt sorry for the guy, since this quest has nullified so many other cards: Polymorphs, Hex, everything like that. Kazakus' spells, etc.
    While I believe that this will likely get changed soon, I think the core idea of the quest is a good one. It's easy enough to complete (for a Rogue), and I wouldn't change that part. But perhaps give all minions a "Battlecry: This minion has 5/5", or something. So it is able to be dealt with.

    Shaman
    I've not come cross anyone actually playing this deck (the Murlocs) so far, so I have very little idea as to how strong it is currently. I reserve judgment...

    Warrior
    I was in two minds about this quest originally. I loved the reward, especially.
    But it also has occured to me that it stands out from the others in that the reward is (a) Cheaper to play than the others, and (b) Is a weapon, not a spell, so it has double the effect - giving a warrior 12 damage for 6 mana, which is immense!
    Not to mention the fact that we were supposed to be getting rid of the Ragnaros card, so we... gave it to exclusive Warrior? What? How was that a good plan?
    All that aside, though, I think this one is currently very strong. It's hard enough to break through countless Taunt minions and then having to deal with a ticking time-bomb at the end is terrifying.
    It's a shame it's let down by Blizzard's seeming love-in with RNG mechanics which (as we all know) everybody loves so much... ahem!

    Hunter
    I have faced this deck perhaps half a dozen times. It has yet to win against me. But I think that's possibly because the opponent hasn't built it very well. I am sure that this deck could be really strong if built correctly. At present though, I always see the Hunter end up with the usual problem of running out of steam before it comes online. I think that's because people become much too greedy with the 1-drops. And there is so much board clear out there now that 1-drops are becoming a liability at times - especially in the mid-late game where this quest comes online.

    Mage
    An extra turn? How amazing is that? :-)
    I've seen a couple of different variations of this deck - some going for the Alexstraza burst, and some for the infinite fireballs, etc.
    I've tried the fireball one and while it is fun to pull it off, I find it a little hit and miss. I don't have Alexstrasza though, so couldn't test that one. Personally I think this is very strong and combined with Mage's "staying alive" abilities through Ice Block etc, this is intensely frustrating to play against. Not a bad thing per se (especially if you're the mage!) but I had hoped we would have seen less of that style of play in the new expansion personally.
    Double Leeroy and Fireballs to the face though... o.O

    Priest
    I have always had some doubts about the whole Reno style of play. While the mechanic is really strong by itself (and in the right situation), most times you are near losing by that point anyway. Warlocks had a great use for Reno, simply by virtue of their board clearance abilities. Priest has little of that to fall back on, though. And most times I have played against this sort of Priest deck, they heal up only to take a huge swing of more damage to the face again.
    The N'zoth variety of this deck can sometimes work, but I have noticed that the priest often has to fill his deck with less useful deathrattle minions that almost always come back - and seeing a priest mill himself to deck with card draw is a little pitiful.

    Paladin
    There's a Paladin Quest? Who knew...? XD

    Druid
    I've tried and tried to make this deck work. I really have! But you end up sacrificing far too much in the early game for it to be viable. By the time you get to play your quest reward, the tempo is so far against you that you can't really get back into it very easily. If the reward were a taunt, that would at least be some use.

    Warlock
    While I dont rate this deck as highly as some of the others, I do believe it is very strong. The discard mechanic is often underrated in this game unless employed properly. My most recent iteration (with the new Warlock Legendary Clutchmother (name?)) has had some particularly successful runs. They key though, seems to be in not relying opn that card since it will always get nullified or destroyed - but it should be there to make the opponent think and it's still only a 2-cost card that you can never accidentally lose.
    The key to this deck, though, seriously lies in smart and logical play. Of all the quest decks, this is definitely the most intellectually challenging to play well, since you have to consider literally every card in your hand at all times and account different strategies based on whichever cards might be discarded.

     

    EDIT: Added the current play stats for the classes.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Any official response from blizzard yet?
    Quote from thesn00ze >>

    Wasn't it statistically proven Quest Rogue is far from being that strong as people claim that deck to be?

     Not exactly. Quest Rogue is sitting at 3rd (50% rounded) in the overall Winrate (behind Warrior and Shaman who are winning much more).
    But the difference here is the number of people playing Rogue to achieve this figure - it is currently standing at over 17% of decks that are Rogue decks. This is (in most cases) almost double the amount of any other deck. 
    The biggest swing in comparison to the 4% of Paladin decks!
    So therefore, the win rate will be affected more by the number of players who are playing this deck to try it out and may not have all the cards necessary or the deck knowledge on how to play it properly.
    So I would assume the winrate to be a fair bit higher in comparison to the others. Which is still incredibly scary at best! :-)
    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far

    As we see here, Rogue is curently third highest in the win rate statistics for Ranked.

    Warrior is topping it (with Shaman close by - as I mentioned, I've not played against a Shaman deck yet).
    So my analysis so far has been pretty close, even without the figures.  The only real surprise is Mage - I thought deck had been performing a lot better than it apparently is.

     What is worth noting though, is that Rogue has been played almost DOUBLE that of most of the other decks - hence why we are seeing so many of them right now...

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 5

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far
    Quote from Oshigawa >>

    Incomplete and childish text, i expected a decent review.

     One might retort with a similar reply regarding your comment - however, if you feel you can do better, then  by all means show us, O Grand Reviewer of Great Renown....
    Unlesss you were being comical - in which case.... Well played... :-)
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on A mini-review of all the Quests so far
    Quote from thazud8D>>

    Quest Rogue is not one of* the most broken deck of all time - at all. 

    Well, in fairness I was recalling what was in this article here: 
    http://hearthstone.metabomb.net/game-guides/top-hearthstone-decks-april-2017-ung1
    "Quest Rogue is not just your best option for the class right now, but perhaps the best deck in the entire game."
    Perhaps the "of all time" comment is an overstatement - but it's no surprise that it is currently sitting at the top of the meta right now.

    Aggro shaman (before all the nerfs hit it), undertaker hunter and Pirate Warrior are all more consistent and strong decks.

    Sure, but I have yet to come across one of these that beats Quest Rogue consistently. Although Undertaker is not part of this meta? Or did you mean something else?

    Quest Rogue is strong but not brokenly OP. I've won most of my games against them with Nzoth Priest and Taunt warrrior. The deck relies heavlily on drawing bounce mechanics and finishing the quest early. Besides Quest Rogue is countered by aggro decks.

    Sure, if the Rogue has a bad draw at the start, and you can somehow stretch out the game past turn 6-8, then I can imagine you would win. It's very similar to the Pirate Warrior problem last season. 

    Aggro shaman filled the board everytime it was cleared, Pirate Warrior deals an insane amount of damage in no time and Undertaker hunter was just disgusting. 

     Well, I just dropped a 24/24 VanCleef on turn 4. Pirate Warrior has nothing on that sort of OP. ;-)
    I'm not saying PW is dead right now (at all), but it is seriously overshadowed by QR. A couple of Taunts and PW falls over flat. But QR just ploughs through them with 5/5s with Charge.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • To post a comment, please login or register a new account.