Hearthpwn

Quote from reggin_bolas jump

Can someone explain it to me? He doesn't seem that bad. In fact, he looks pretty good on paper. 

It's a control card, and the meta is cancer.

Quote from TrollShroud3 jump

The Skeleton Knight is incredibly powerful and not to be over looked or underrated. Yea you pay 6 mana for a salty dog, but if you build the deck correctly it will never die. If you have the capacity for imagination with this card and the skill to use it it's incredible. There are no bad cards, only bad players (with the exception of a few base cards like magma rager of course).

In arena this card gets potentially infinite value, the card would be OP if it were any better, it doesn't need any changes and flare alone makes printing this card fun. It's very underrated though.

This is a troll, right?

I agree with 2nd part, which oddly enough contradicts the first part.  

Quote from MisterQuick jump

 

"If you build the deck correctly it will never die".  
lose first joust ---> concede

 If you build it, they will come!

Quote from ShadowOfFate jump

Calculating value is getting really dumb here. It's so arbitrary and biased. In just the last couple pages, we have come up with ranges of anything from 7-14 mana cost values for this card. It's gotten really silly. Heck, if we wanted to keep up the stupidity we could argue about having less than 7 value on it. But because anyone rational knows Dr. Boom is good value, it must be worth more than 7. But they also know the value is not worth twice the cost of the card. That in of itself doesn't inherently make it OP. Many cards are good value and could be considered as a greater value than their cost, particularly with legendary cards, which are supposed to be better in general and certainly than weak commons. 

And who ever played War Golem in constructed? It's more expensive than it's value, so clearly it's not worth the 7 mana. If Dr. Boom was 7/7 summon to 1/1 tokens without any effect, would anybody play it then at 7 cost? Still probably no. Maybe some gimmicky token deck? Really, it's about the boom bot deathrattle effect. That is what really makes the card effective and adds most of the extra value. The 1/1 tokens are really just a platform for that. And in just the last two pages, the deathrattle effect has been rated at anything from 1 to a combined 5. So ignoring arbitrary rating, is the deathrattle effect really enough to push a card that would not otherwise see play to the OP status?

The issue is you don't understand the difference between base values, cards without card text, and what you perceive to be worth x mana.  Everyone has to work from the same standard, and that is the base values.

I think I broke it down quite nicely.  Idk what more I could add.   I guess if you think Dr Boom can't be worth nearly double it's cost, then you should look at mad scientist.  Mad scientist, which is highly considered the best 2 drop, is worth about 6 mana in mage.  That is 3x it's actual summoning cost.  

Quote from knechtbd jump

I don't think blizzard assigns bonus value for combining cards though. Bomb lobber is a 3/3 body (2.5 mana) plus a flame cannon (2 mana). Sludge belcher is a senjin shieldmaster and a goldshire footman. The combined value is what makes those cards good, but I don't think they get bonus mana

Sure they do, I gave an example, Seal of champion.

Seal of Champion = Divine Shield + 3 attack

Divine Shield = 1 mana card

Blessing of might = 1 mana card.

Seal of champion = 3 mana card

 You are paying a 1 mana tax for those two cards to be combined.  Instead of paying 2 mana & 2 cards, you can pay 3 mana and save a card.

Al'Akir is another great example.  It's an 8 mana cost 3/5!   It was 'balanced', because it had taunt, divine shield, and windfury.  I put balanced in quotation marks, because I have always said the card was mediocre.  For a card to be good nowadays it has to be broken.  Which is why shaman is shit, it doesn't have broken cards, but that's another topic.

Quote from knechtbd jump

Quote from Mysticjbyrd jump

Quote from knechtbd jump

Here is the way that I value Dr. Boom. 

The 7/7 body is worth 6.5 mana because of the (Health + Attack -1)/2 rule that is applied to most cards without an ability.

The two boom bots are with 1.5 mana if you ignore the deathrattle. It's basically a murloc tidecaller with one less attack.

The toughest part is assigning value to the deathrattle. The closest comparison I see is arcane missiles which isn't perfect, but is somewhat close. if a guaranteed 3 damage is worth 1, then a random 1-4 damage should be worth around .75, giving the deathrattle a value of 1.5. Going one step further, a spell is kind of like a battlecry, and battlecries have more value than deathrattles, compare novice engineer to loot hoarder, and harvest golem to dragonling mechanic. In each of those cases, they downgrade the value of the deathrattle 1/2 mana. If you do that you can maybe argue the deathrattles are only worth .5 mana each.

Adding it all together, Dr. Boom is worth between 9 and 9.5 mana in my opinion.

 

Your math sux

Thank you for your constructive feedback. :-)

lol np.

If it was only 9 mana worth of value on 7, it would be crap.  So, If you insist here is the breakdown. 

 7/7 = 7 mana  (war golem)

Summon 2 1/1s = 1 mana ( living roots)

Random dmg, avg 2.5 ~ 1 mana (crackle, holy smite)

Adding 2 cards together ~ 1 mana ( Seal of champions)  - War golem + living roots + mini crackle x2 = +3 mana

Total value:  7 + 1 + 1*2 + 3 = 13 mana

This is why it is by far the #1 legendary.

Quote from Nibelunglied jump

wow this guy sure has alot of issues to a gaming company that owes him nothin for playing a free game this guy decided to play

That's a juvenile, and frankly idiotic way to look at the matter.  As a community we pay for a product, and it's well within the rights of the consumer to complain about products they purchase.  Especially when they can be improved so easily.

Quote from mianiplays jump

Quote from DatJake jump

I am surprised there has not been a boom equal in TGT. Currently i still think he reigns value over most of the introduced legs, maybe confessor beats him out. 

What about Dr.6 and all his secrets :D

That's not a legendary.  There are lots of broken cards that get way too much value for their cost that aren't legendary.  Mad scientist for example.

Quote from Serology jump

Quote from Mysticjbyrd jump

The deck in the OP is also bad btw.  It's just a bad version of malygos shaman.

It is completely different to "Malygos Shaman", is it your eye sight or your IQ that is causing you that confusion?

MFC, I switched to Mech Shaman to try and grind out the last 60 wins for my golden shaman with something faster and needless to say it went about as well as it did for RDU in the ATLC. That deck is truly dead.

Any deck that has malygos is defined by that card choice.   It's the same win condition!  Drop maly, spam spells.  That's your only real win condition. 

Sorry to break this to you, but your deck is shit.  Your ad hominem's won't fix that.

I am playing korean mech shaman  with totem golem tossed in right now, and shitting on people.  They are probably just bad though, I got my 5 shaman quest done though.  idc

Quote from Gerbinzorlog jump

why is this still a topic of conversation? anyone who doesn't know how to or just cant deal with boom at this point needs to rethink how they play the game. also its not like boom is only playable by your opponent. we all can use him.

 

Whoosh.... Way to miss the point by a mile, and strawman your opponent like a douche.

Quote from Rhyolth jump

Quote from Mysticjbyrd jump

Quote from DocTam jump

I think Overload is fine, its just that a lot of the cards that its attached to have gotten way worse.  Lightning Storm has always been frustrating to use compared to Consecration, Feral Spirit is mostly useless now that Harvest golem isn't the goto 3 drop,  and Lightning bolt doesn't snipe your opponent's 3 drop anymore.

The thing that makes me relieved about queuing into Shaman is knowing they can't come back, and that's been true for a while.  They have lots of cards that require minions to be on the board, and their only comeback card is Lightning Storm, otherwise you just keep clearing their board as they hopelessly try to use their removal to claw back in.

I enjoy playing the class, but its so frustrating when I'm forced to gamble on a 50/50 with Lightning storm.  And all Blizzard made was a card for Malygos shaman to help deal with this.

Overload is the problem in the sense that blizzard overly values it, and creates bad cards.   This bias has depreciated with time, but it's still obviously there.  4 mana fucking arcane intellect.   The base shaman cards are just so obsolete nowadays it's not even funny, but sadly we still have to use them as crutches just to sort of survive.

What's more, shaman are the bitch RNG class.  Everything we have HAS to have RNG attached to it, because fuck shaman.  Furthermore, we aren't even fully granted the required buff awarded to RNG based cards.  Compare crackle to implosion for instance.

Overload is far from being our problem : you could change all of our Overload card with regular version, it won't change the fact anything we will try to accomplish with our totem will constantly get demolish by decks spawning multiple 1/1. And it's getting easier and easier for our opponents to spawn them :  Haunted Creeper, Muster for Battle/Imp-losion, Imp Gang Boss, now Living Roots (not to mention Unleash the Nerfs).
Of course, any tech cards from other decks to fight that will also wreck our totems as well...

While you can criticize the value of Lightning Storm in such cases, the card is not meant to deal with tokens to begin with ; it was more design to deal with board of actual cheap minions and injured bigger ones: and it does really well in those cases. We simply don't have a tool suited for that situation (i mean one that will also keep our totems healthy)

Also, Ancestral Knowledge is certainly not a bad card even when compared with Arcane Intellect: the mage card will basically f*ck one of your turn, while the Shaman card will only moderately f*ck two of your turn : since Shaman tend to curve out relatively low anyway, it's not that big of a deal.
Also, it lets you fish for lethal/an answer and leave you with enough mana to cast it instantly : that's a big deal.

I tend to agree with your rant about RNG, and we could use some RNG mitigation, especially with our Hero Power (i mean a better one than Justicar).
Still, your example is not well chosen : the breaking point of Imp-losion would be somewhere between 2 and 3, while Crackle breaks even at exactly 4. So, the ratio good/bad result is very comparable.
The biggest difference in these 2 cards is their nature : since Crackle is mostly a finisher/part of a finishing combo, it will, by nature, fit in a lot less deck than an all-rounder like Imp-losion.

Overload is the problem, because every single shaman card with overload is mediocre.  That's the problem.  Everyone has OP cards, except shaman.  

Summon 2 1/1's ~ 1 mana + 2 dmg ~ 1.5 mana = 2.5 mana.   Combine those in one card, and it's about 1 mana in value.  That's a total of 3.5 mana for the worst case scenario for implosion.  That's still pretty good... Damn near on curve!   Compare that to the worst case scenario for Crackle, and you are overpaying by FIFTY percent.  

Ancestral knowledge is not a good card.  It's another mediocre card, that's almost always strictly worse than another version of the card another class gets.  Just like totem golem is a worse version of shield minibot.

This scenario where you need to draw lethal, and can't spare one extra mana is practically a fucking a fantasy!  It's just not going to pop up enough to ever be truly relevant.  The 4 mana cost will screw you over a 1000x more than that dream scenario will ever pop up.

The reason it has 2 overload, and elemental devastation has 5 overload is because they are trying to force shaman into using lava shock.   That's what they were actually thinking when they developed that crap.

Quote from Hearthswag jump

The goal here is to get every card playable to some degree in some area of the game in a certain kind of deck. I build my own unique decks (hobos, jeeves etc) with abilities that inspire and excite me. These decks don’t do too badly but they are always 1 step behind the top tier decks because we never see nerfs. Blizz have you ever played an actual game in which an opponent dropped Dr. Boom? Sylvannas? Doesn’t something click that maybe these cards are just a little broken? That kids shouldn’t be adding cards just because they’re so damn good.

 

Thoughts?

Blizzard has basically officially announced the devs are too incompetent to adjust cards.  Remember what happened when they tried in the past?  Starving Buzzard saw like a half dozen changes, and then they eventually said fuck it and made the card unplayable.  

So rather than looking like idiots and spending the hundreds of millions they are making, they have decided to ignore the players and the meta.  Ignore the broken cards, and put in more broken cards, and more insane RNG.  

PS:  I am not joking either.  This is their actual position, not the PR bullshit.

Quote from hearthstonedz jump

Quote from Squatchdrew jump

This secret paladin crap is out of control. 

you can play around that deck, but Mysterious Chanllenger is completely broken.

a 6 mana card, with 6/6 stats and can give you 6 secrets at once and NOT A SINGLE card that counter that other than "flare" which is a class card and kezan mystic which is completely terrible, since makes no diference.  Or they nerf the card or add a neutral common card that can deal with secrets in a better way.

 That is half true.  A lot of the paladin secrets require polar opposite plays.

Let's say the paladin has muster for battle, and a secret up.

If you kill a 1/1, and it's avenge, then he suddenly gets a large threat.

If you ignore the 1/1, and play a taunt, and it's repentance, then you lost a creature for a light's justice charge.

If you ignore the 1/1, and attack face, and it's competitive spirit, then you are in some serious shit.

If you attack a 1/1, and it's noble sacrifice, then you might lose your creature for a shit secret, and maybe also a light's justice charge.

If you attack a 1/1, and it's redemption, then grats you don't get shit on, but it's still bad.

What play is correct is based on what potential answers you have in your hand, but a lot of the times there is no obvious right choice.   One thing is more or less certain though, if they have a decent board and turn 6 rolls around, then you will basically get shit on.

Quote from BigFatMurloc jump

All decks need to reduce their 2 attack minions cause of GP. The card is still verry good and might come back someday as a staple.

No, it's not very good.  Just because it sees play doesn't mean it's good!   It's trash shaman are forced to use to try to counter the insane aggro.

The card has been bad ever since GvG came out with spider tank, and other solid 3 drops.  Their 3 drop trades for your 5 drop, which is laughably bad.  

Compare this to actual good cards, 2/4 taunt in priest.  3/6 taunt twilight guardian for 4.  This is effectively a 4/6 for 5, but with the huge downside of being two bodies.

Quote from MCFUser175154 jump

Quote from Serology jump

Quote from MCFUser175154 jump

Why no Mistcaller? Thought it was 'extremely strong'

Quote from Serology jump

Quote from Mysticjbyrd jump

Told you guys this card was trash.... ROFL!

It's extremely strong, if you don't think so then you're using it wrong. Simple as that.

 

Not optimal in this deck.

Do you run Doomsayer in your Mech Mage? It's extremely strong in Freeze Mage.

What would be the optimal deck then? If such a strong card exist, shouldn't a deck be made to exploit it? The way I see it is that handlock pretty much does the same thing as mistcaller without much drawback.

It's not a strong card, it's bad.  If you can plop down a Mistcaller and win, then you were likely already winning, and you could have tossed down a fucking boulderfist ogre and did just as well.  If you are losing, then playing this card practically guarantees the loss.

The deck in the OP is also bad btw.  It's just a bad version of malygos shaman.

Quote from DocTam jump

I think Overload is fine, its just that a lot of the cards that its attached to have gotten way worse.  Lightning Storm has always been frustrating to use compared to Consecration, Feral Spirit is mostly useless now that Harvest golem isn't the goto 3 drop,  and Lightning bolt doesn't snipe your opponent's 3 drop anymore.

The thing that makes me relieved about queuing into Shaman is knowing they can't come back, and that's been true for a while.  They have lots of cards that require minions to be on the board, and their only comeback card is Lightning Storm, otherwise you just keep clearing their board as they hopelessly try to use their removal to claw back in.

I enjoy playing the class, but its so frustrating when I'm forced to gamble on a 50/50 with Lightning storm.  And all Blizzard made was a card for Malygos shaman to help deal with this.

Overload is the problem in the sense that blizzard overly values it, and creates bad cards.   This bias has depreciated with time, but it's still obviously there.  4 mana fucking arcane intellect.   The base shaman cards are just so obsolete nowadays it's not even funny, but sadly we still have to use them as crutches just to sort of survive.

What's more, shaman are the bitch RNG class.  Everything we have HAS to have RNG attached to it, because fuck shaman.  Furthermore, we aren't even fully granted the required buff awarded to RNG based cards.  Compare crackle to implosion for instance.

2 dmg implosion = medicore

3 dmg implosion = great

4 dmg implosion = insane

3 dmg crackle = Fucking horrendous

4 dmg crackle = mediocre

5 dmg crackle = great

6 dmg crackle = insane

Why do we have an outcome that is beyond horrible, yet don't have an 7 dmg outcome that is totally broken?  Or better yet, why is 3 damage even an option?   It makes no fucking sense... 

Quote from TazdingoFTW jump

Quote from Kbp8 jump

Quote from pomonkeypo jump

Totem shaman isn't too bad, you may have just gotten unlucky. I've seen Strifecro play totem shaman and it held it's weight against the metagame.

Yep, it worked well in the first week when everyone's trying silly decks. After new eboladin emerged, it's gone. Strifecro hasn't played it anymore, and he also admited that shaman in general is very weak in this meta.

I don't know why we are changing the subject all the time, but the first comment's content was that shaman sucks in general. It wasn't about a meta issue (I do agree that this meta is not very good for the class). But that's just a wrong statement since shaman's going to be fine as soon as the meta changes just a bit.

It's like saying that Handlock is a horrible deck because aggro paladin exists. Midrange shaman and handlock, both are in a bad position right now; and none of those can be considered being bad.

Shaman in general is VERY weak.  

The meta will not change enough to matter.  It will remain purely tempo based, and shaman will continue to get shit on in such an environment.