There's a number of different changes they could have given the Warsong Commander while keeping the charge theme:
The first minion summoned this turn gains charge
Adjacent minions have charge
Minions have charge as long as they have 3 attack or less (once exceeded, the charge effect is lost)
Minions that are played (from the hand) have charge
Minions with 3 or less attack gain charge and "Cannot attack the enemy hero"
#1, 2, and 4 still leaves the big OTK issues that made the deck so damaging, and meanwhile still hurts the not-as-abusive Patron itself.
#3 is an option, but I think blizzard is worried about the NEXT 3 mana card they create that results in another 'patron' deck. A BIG reason for this change was due to future card design, not just the current deck.
THe last change might be interesting, but would still kill the deck. A whole board of minions that cannot attack the opponent is basically death for the owning player. So it's more interesting but, in the end, about as viable as the current nerf.
@ Daily: that would be much MUCH worse. Drop a giant, whirlwind, charge face.
@lip the change was more for future cards. They were concerned that they would be unable to make any 3- attack minion with anything interesting since it would just turn into the 'next Patron' thanks to Warsong. They didn't want to keep nerfing cards because they became insane once given charge. Thus Patron/frothing was more of a symptom to a bigger problem. Thus why Warsong took the hit.
There's a number of different changes they could have given the Warsong Commander while keeping the charge theme:
The first minion summoned this turn gains charge
Adjacent minions have charge
Minions have charge as long as they have 3 attack or less (once exceeded, the charge effect is lost)
Minions that are played (from the hand) have charge
Minions with 3 or less attack gain charge and "Cannot attack the enemy hero"
I like the first the best, as it allows you to give a big minion charge each turn. Te second seems OP to me for that reason. Still I think most of these stil limit design space for future cards.
the problem with Warsong commander lies with the future of the game not the current state, they are nerfing it so they can make new cards with low attack value and neat effects with out them being broken, Warsong Commander does not allow that to happen.
this card has to be nerfed, it should have been further nerfed during Beta especially after all the trouble it caused during Alpha.
Well said. I wonder if they are working on cards that would support more of a charge Warrior variant, and the planned nerf fits into that better than my suggestion above.
They took their time, and I'm confident Blizzard knows what they are doing.
Well said. I wonder if they are working on cards that would support more of a charge Warrior variant, and the planned nerf fits into that better than my suggestion above.
They took their time, and I'm confident Blizzard knows what they are doing.
No, they are shifitng away from Charge, they realised how bad Charge is for the game, Icehowl is a big proof of that.
expect the new cards to be mid-high cost with special effects not seen yet that would be insane if they had Charge.
thats what the Warsong Commandernerf allows them to make, new things that could not exist without this simple change.
It's functionally the same as before, but now, minions that were buffed up on the turn they were played (Frothing Berserker) won't be able to charge if they get more than 3 attack.
This also allows the Warsong Commander to charge, maybe leading to some kind of aggro charge warrior? Idk, at least this version is still better than the new one.
What if Warsong Commander gave all charge minions additional damage = to the number of minions with charge that you have in play, so if you have 3 minion with charge they'd all get +3 attack, 5, they'd get +5 attack, etc.
It's not exactly easy to get a bunch of minions with charge out in one turn, but if you can manage it or add more the next turn, it does have a snowballing effect. Right now, just giving them +1 attack doesn't seem like it's worth using the card anymore.
I thinked about changing the text of warsong commander to "Whatever you PLAY an minion with 3 or less attack, give it charge."
But it will only destroy the combo of patron. because the patrons from the initial one wouldnt gain charge, and the 100/1 frothing berserker would still work
Ps: If you dont know, the reason of the nerf is the combo. Because it can kill your opponent, only with cards on your hand.
It's not weird, look at their reasoning. "Dreadsteed was originally going to be a neutral card released in Naxxramas, WC hindered that" they are acting now so they don't run into problems when designing warrior and neutral cards in the years to come. Children have troubles understanding this very good point. They should probably have thought of this before the first version was released, but that 's acceptable human error, and at least we got the fun out of it up to now
There's a number of different changes they could have given the Warsong Commander while keeping the charge theme:
#1, 2, and 4 still leaves the big OTK issues that made the deck so damaging, and meanwhile still hurts the not-as-abusive Patron itself.
#3 is an option, but I think blizzard is worried about the NEXT 3 mana card they create that results in another 'patron' deck. A BIG reason for this change was due to future card design, not just the current deck.
THe last change might be interesting, but would still kill the deck. A whole board of minions that cannot attack the opponent is basically death for the owning player. So it's more interesting but, in the end, about as viable as the current nerf.
@ Daily: that would be much MUCH worse. Drop a giant, whirlwind, charge face.
@lip the change was more for future cards. They were concerned that they would be unable to make any 3- attack minion with anything interesting since it would just turn into the 'next Patron' thanks to Warsong. They didn't want to keep nerfing cards because they became insane once given charge. Thus Patron/frothing was more of a symptom to a bigger problem. Thus why Warsong took the hit.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I like the first the best, as it allows you to give a big minion charge each turn. Te second seems OP to me for that reason. Still I think most of these stil limit design space for future cards.
Minions have charge when they have 3 attack or less.
That way, Grim Patrons do not charge after inner rage and Frothing Berserker does not charge when it goes above 3 attack.
I'd also change Grim Patron so that it summons an injured Patron with -1 health.
I know this is not exactly what the original post requested, but this is my 2 cents anyway.
This
the problem with Warsong commander lies with the future of the game not the current state, they are nerfing it so they can make new cards with low attack value and neat effects with out them being broken, Warsong Commander does not allow that to happen.
this card has to be nerfed, it should have been further nerfed during Beta especially after all the trouble it caused during Alpha.
Well said. I wonder if they are working on cards that would support more of a charge Warrior variant, and the planned nerf fits into that better than my suggestion above.
They took their time, and I'm confident Blizzard knows what they are doing.
No, they are shifitng away from Charge, they realised how bad Charge is for the game, Icehowl is a big proof of that.
expect the new cards to be mid-high cost with special effects not seen yet that would be insane if they had Charge.
thats what the Warsong Commandernerf allows them to make, new things that could not exist without this simple change.
my suggestion:
change warsong commander's casting cost to 4.
It's functionally the same as before, but now, minions that were buffed up on the turn they were played (Frothing Berserker) won't be able to charge if they get more than 3 attack.
This also allows the Warsong Commander to charge, maybe leading to some kind of aggro charge warrior? Idk, at least this version is still better than the new one.
I'm sure this was the first thing they tested.
Charge is a very problematic mechanic, it can make OTK and burst too easy to achieve and likely causes a lot of design issues.
Nope.
3 Mana 0/3. Give all minions Charge. Friendly minions cannot attack the enemy Hero.
Obviously not a balanced card, but that wasn't the requirement :)
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
give all charge minions immune on your turn
The Charge mechanic isn't really all that balanced though.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
2x Molten Giants into Owl targeting the Commander -> Moltens have charge and can attack the hero.
Dab
Arena the other day, Warsong + Emperor Cobra cleared my Ironbark and then I died to Weapon to the face. :)
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
What if Warsong Commander gave all charge minions additional damage = to the number of minions with charge that you have in play, so if you have 3 minion with charge they'd all get +3 attack, 5, they'd get +5 attack, etc.
It's not exactly easy to get a bunch of minions with charge out in one turn, but if you can manage it or add more the next turn, it does have a snowballing effect. Right now, just giving them +1 attack doesn't seem like it's worth using the card anymore.
It's an aura like Stormwind Champion, so that doesn't work.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
I thinked about changing the text of warsong commander to "Whatever you PLAY an minion with 3 or less attack, give it charge."
But it will only destroy the combo of patron. because the patrons from the initial one wouldnt gain charge, and the 100/1 frothing berserker would still work
Ps: If you dont know, the reason of the nerf is the combo. Because it can kill your opponent, only with cards on your hand.
"Its not fun" they say
It's not weird, look at their reasoning. "Dreadsteed was originally going to be a neutral card released in Naxxramas, WC hindered that" they are acting now so they don't run into problems when designing warrior and neutral cards in the years to come. Children have troubles understanding this very good point. They should probably have thought of this before the first version was released, but that 's acceptable human error, and at least we got the fun out of it up to now
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