Hearthpwn

The only one of these changes I agree with is starving buzzard, and that is a buff. It was completely overdone, like uth going from 2 mana straight to 4, did blizz forget that 3 existed?

The other cards are just good to very good cards. They aren't broken and don't need a nerf. 

Mad scientist is worse than undertaker, definitely overpowered and needs a nerf. Two mana for a 2/2 undertaker activator that either has to be silenced or provides crazy tempo is nuts.

Only 3 classes benefit from it, so it's not op.

Quote from zyzio90 »

1. I agree Undertaker is very annoying card. However i think increasing his cost to 2 mana will make him unplayable. The reason why he is so strong is follow up with deathrattle minions on turn 2. If your opponent doesn't have this suddenly Undertaker is not so good. Imo changing it to 1 mana 1/3 with only attack buff is good option.

I totally agree with 1 mana 1/3 and buff attack. He would still be very usefull but not so hard to kil once grown.

I guess they will probably do something about Boom. He isn't letting  other GvG legendaries to shine. I would still play him as 7/5, 6/7 and maybe even at 6/6. That's how good those boom bots are.

I feel bad for buzzard, such a waste. I'd love to see it making a comeback but i don't see blizz going back on this one seeing how hunter is still prevalent.

6/7 would be a huge buff btw

Mad Scientist itself isn't that strong, but the secrets are. Face hunter is probably the most played aggro deck, and it does greatly benefit from the Mad Scientist, but it also benefits from all other cards. Just because someone found a way to increase the chances of getting the wanted secret by putting less of them in the deck doesn't make a certain card op, but the deck. Scientist gives you a random one. The reason why mages get duplicate is because nobody runs spellbender or counterspell, and why would they? I don't play hunter, Scientist is a good card and by making it 3 mana 2/2 with the same effect would be enough.

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To be honest, while there are cards which could be nerfed, I don't think there's anything currently which warrants a nerf. I think if Undertaker was going to be nerfed it would have happened already.

Dr.Boom could theoretically be nerfed to a 7/5 which would still be pretty powerful. That's still a 9/7 for 7 with a pretty good Deathrattle, so on par with something like Malorne. But I don't know how necessary it is. 

Muster for Battle is comparable to Arathi Weaponsmith. Both are 3/3s which equip a 4 attack weapon. But Muster provides a much poorer distribution and so costs one less mana.

You are right. There is a fine red line between nerfing something and completely shutting it down. I just think that Aggro isn't designed in clever way, if all popular aggro decks rely on first turns of Undertaker+Deathrattles. 

Yes, but it's because of the card sinergy. So the secrets are a bit op, not the Scientist, like Explosive should do 1 dmg to all enemies, not 2. And Freezing trap is ok, I guess. I don't play hunter but whenever I encounter that class, I'm prepared for the traps. Play around them, don't play too many minions and be careful which one you use to attack first. If you can't play around, consider playing Kezan Mystic.

Quote from painkiller789 »

Yes, but it's because of the card sinergy. So the secrets are a bit op, not the Scientist, like Explosive should do 1 dmg to all enemies, not 2. And Freezing trap is ok, I guess. I don't play hunter but whenever I encounter that class, I'm prepared for the traps. Play around them, don't play too many minions and be careful which one you use to attack first. If you can't play around, consider playing Kezan Mystic.

It's not the secrets that are OP, it's that you get them for free. You aren't required to draw the card to play it, it costs no mana, and it thins your deck. The amount of tempo/advantage you get from that is insane.

Boom bots possibly.  Undertaker as a 1/1 wouldn't be bad but i don't have a problem with the way it is.

Quote from TheChiv »

When GvG came out there were several cards that were changed as to not provide a huge boost to one class or another. Most had their mana cost increased by 1 but no real stat changes. Here we shall look at possible changes to be made in order to remove and or stabilize the meta to a more playable state rather then, "Greetings traveler" every 5 minutes. Below I will list my 5 personal choices and suggestions for change. Please list your own thoughts and changes.

1. Undertaker. This card is probably one of the most over played and "cancerous" creations by blizzard. It creates so much fear of snow ball that as a player you are forced to take several answers for it. If you do not get an answer for it quickly your likely hood of survival drops significantly. Proposed change. It is extremely too easy to exploit this card in the early game and its power curve is very difficult to counter. Change it to a 2 mana with same stats and then it shifts 1 turn but can still be threat however opens up more possibilities to counter it.

2. Starving Buzzard. This card has been nerfed more times then I can even count and its getting rather sad. As it stands as a 5 mana 3/2 it is unplayable and hunters have no reliable draw options to explore other builds and designs and all their decks are the same. FACE. Change 4 mana 2/3. What this will do is make it more playable while not breaking the game with unleash the hounds. Now at turn 7 you can get an unleash to draw combo but with the new gvg cards in play this will not mean all that much. And in fact it will make clockwork giant a great counter to such design and thus give that more play ability.

3.Muster for Battle. the value you get from a muster for battle is 7 mana for 3. 3 tokens + a lights justice. this is over a 2 to 1 value and is very extreme. Change. increase cost to 4.

4. Dr. Boom. While I love this card for so many reasons the value of what it can do as a Neutral minion are pretty damn extreme. best case scenario this card can cause 15 damage. However in practice the average is 11. While it gives validity to Big game hunter being included in ones deck the value of the card for its pricing is a tad bit too good. change to a 7/5 with same ability.

5. Light of the Naaru. Im not 100% sold this needs a change, though I feel a bit strange for a class level card to consistently pull in a neutral card that has a huge upswing to that same class. I think perhaps looking over other options in the priest arsenal would be more wise.

 

1) I agree 100% on undertaker and your proposed cost change. it slows the card down  - while it keeps being viable in a more midrange/control oriented hunter (or other aggro class) where it combo's nicely with Dr. boom, savanah highmane, sylvanus and other late game deathrattles. this change would effect aggro the most and make control 'more fun' to play. (since unlucky mulligans aren't auto loss against undertaker+coin+lepergnome).

2) 100% agree here. (as you said) because they kept the card's phrasing the card will always be a 'combo with UTH' play. Unfortunately. by changing it from 2 to 5 mana this card will forever live in the shadow of cult master... (who happens to be hunters only 'descent' and still unreliable card draw atm, because it ALSO needs UTH but cost 4). As someone who cant stand brainless Neanderthal facehunter I've spent a lot of time trying to engineer a competitive control hunter. Removal for many stages of the game is there, steamweedle sniper is awesome (hes basically a taunt against aggro)  and there are powerful deathrattle minions (feign death synergy) but hunter just needs some 'reliable' card draw. Gnomish inventer is 'ok' but takes up a good '4' slot. Shaman on the other hand have crap for the 4 slot that's y they use gnomish inventer.... I personally think the card starving buzzard should read: put 2 (or 3) random beasts into your hand, or just draw 2 cards and remain a 3/2. This gives it similar value to arcane intellect (I get class cards are uncompareable, but 3 mana for 2 cards is NOT OP, kinda week tbh) and then you would receive a 3/2 body for the additional 2 mana. completely balanced and more 'reliable' then its current purpose.

3) I 50% agree. I think just 3 1/1 minions should be 3 mana - as their AoE vulnerability vs one 3/3 minion is compensated by quartermaster synergy and the lights justice is added value. BUT. Lights justice is just a terrible card against anything but mirror match. ONLY captain greenskin makes it bearable. this is because - THOU SHALL NOT FACETANK, TO DEAL 1 DMG. I think blizzard threw in the bonus light justice to remind people this card actually exists and still be within the realm of 'class cards being slightly stronger'. Without muster for battle Pally has a tough time against aggro on a sidenote.

4) I 100% agree he needs to be nerfed but disagree in how you suggested he be nerfed. I feel the bots just need to 'deal 1-4 dmg to a random minion other then dr.boom'. By simply giving the bots RNG targets he becomes less of 'win more' card and playing him on an empty, (or any board I guess) isn't so lethal. This would make him slightly more situational (your opponent has lots of minions? perfect dr.boom remains basically as effective as before). This also follows suit with GvG RNG madness as well as the method used to nerf tinkerspark back in the day.

5) I think Blizzard messed up when they designed lightwarden because lightwarden should of been a priest class card from the very beginning. ontop of that, even if lightwarden was a priest card it wasn't 'good enough(in meta thusfar)' to be used competitively. I feel like light of the naaru is basically a 'tribute' to lightwarden similar how muster for battle was a tribute to lights justice. Blizzard managed to make lightwarden n lights justice kinda cool against through the two new cards incorporating them.

Then for some reason they just REALLY hated on war golem via dr.boom.

Thanks for the good post, OP.
Cheers.

What I think are going to be the next set of nerfs:
1. Undertaker to 1/1, in order to increase counterplay.
2. Savage Roar to 4 mana, to delay the combo for one turn ("unfun" crazy burst) and to remove the option of innervating a 2nd Savage Roar.
3. Mad Scientist to 2/1, same stats as Loot Hoarder but still with a strong deathrattle when secrets are present in your deck.
4. Boom Bots changed to: Deathrattle: Deal 1-3 damage to a random enemy. With this change Dr. Boom is still strong but generates somewhat less tempo; hard removal on Dr. Boom is stronger this way as the bots decrease in value.

Quote from thepoxbox »

Quote from Grumhul »

You are right. There is a fine red line between nerfing something and completely shutting it down. I just think that Aggro isn't designed in clever way, if all popular aggro decks rely on first turns of Undertaker+Deathrattles. 

They don't rely on it but undertaker FORCES the answer, basically. 
It's not like, say, a cogmaster, which is as pretty ridiculous guy but still not undertaker-insane.  Most of the time cogmaster is already a better flame imp, but undertaker starts as a better zombie chow, then he's a better spider tank and then a better yeti.. what the hell...

They shouldn't design cards that HAVE to be dealt with turn1.

^^^^^ This right here ^^^^^ Kudos to you sir.

by taking out cards requiring turn 1 removal due to snowball, the game becomes less luck based and dependant on hitting your early removal, and more strategic.

The undertaker nerf threads are tired and so I would imagine are the teams. Why not theory craft decks instead of posting these pointless nerf 'x' threads which produce nothing but discord?

Quote from Adeimantuss »

The undertaker nerf threads are tired and so I would imagine are the teams. Why not theory craft decks instead of posting these pointless nerf 'x' threads which produce nothing but discord?

Blizzard should've never made balance changes after release to begin with. They've now created this expectation on players, who look towards Blizzard to nerf everything to oblivion rather than countering the meta accordingly. It's a really unhealthy attitude overall.

1. Undertaker, even though the damage has already been done because they were too lazy to nerf it early enough.

2. Maybe Mechwarper. Self-explanatory.

3. May.....be Dr. Boom too. Although comparing it to the War Golem is stupid, it being use almost in every single deck may justify the nerf.