When GvG came out there were several cards that were changed as to not provide a huge boost to one class or another. Most had their mana cost increased by 1 but no real stat changes. Here we shall look at possible changes to be made in order to remove and or stabilize the meta to a more playable state rather then, "Greetings traveler" every 5 minutes. Below I will list my 5 personal choices and suggestions for change. Please list your own thoughts and changes.
1. Undertaker. This card is probably one of the most over played and "cancerous" creations by blizzard. It creates so much fear of snow ball that as a player you are forced to take several answers for it. If you do not get an answer for it quickly your likely hood of survival drops significantly. Proposed change. It is extremely too easy to exploit this card in the early game and its power curve is very difficult to counter. Change it to a 2 mana with same stats and then it shifts 1 turn but can still be threat however opens up more possibilities to counter it.
2. Starving Buzzard. This card has been nerfed more times then I can even count and its getting rather sad. As it stands as a 5 mana 3/2 it is unplayable and hunters have no reliable draw options to explore other builds and designs and all their decks are the same. FACE. Change 4 mana 2/3. What this will do is make it more playable while not breaking the game with unleash the hounds. Now at turn 7 you can get an unleash to draw combo but with the new gvg cards in play this will not mean all that much. And in fact it will make clockwork giant a great counter to such design and thus give that more play ability.
3.Muster for Battle. the value you get from a muster for battle is 7 mana for 3. 3 tokens + a lights justice. this is over a 2 to 1 value and is very extreme. Change. increase cost to 4.
4. Dr. Boom. While I love this card for so many reasons the value of what it can do as a Neutral minion are pretty damn extreme. best case scenario this card can cause 15 damage. However in practice the average is 11. While it gives validity to Big game hunter being included in ones deck the value of the card for its pricing is a tad bit too good. change to a 7/5 with same ability.
5. Light of the Naaru. Im not 100% sold this needs a change, though I feel a bit strange for a class level card to consistently pull in a neutral card that has a huge upswing to that same class. I think perhaps looking over other options in the priest arsenal would be more wise.
3.Muster for Battle. the value you get from a muster for battle is 7 mana for 3. 3 tokens + a lights justice. this is over a 2 to 1 value and is very extreme. Change. increase cost to 4.
I agree with all the points but not with this one. While muster / quartermaster turn 8 is a very strong play, it's still very weak to aoe.
1/1 tokens are hardly worth 2 mana; Silver Hand Recruit is infact as a 1 mana card by itself, it costs 2 mana only when it's a hero power. Muster for Battle is also one of the two cards that are making paladin viable in the meta against fast aggro decks, it would destroy the class to have it on 4 mana, specially considering how much stuff paladins have in that mana slot.
Good thread man. Disagree on the muster nerf though. I think it's fine as is. Pally needed something strong and it's finally a solid class as is, but not OP.
1. every one agrees with you so im gonna look like a moron here but i don't think it should be changed. people get SOO angry when they lose to hunter and zoo because they feel helpless when they get blown out really fast. slow, drawn out deaths, where you are equally helpless (in games where they get all the answers, similarly to aggro getting turn 1 undertaker) from a control deck don't stick in people's memory. undertaker is a very powerful card but nerfing it could remove hunter from the ladder. people love to talk about midrange hunter but i don't see it, and all their other cards have been nerfed pigeon-holing hunter into aggro.
2. agreed card is unplayable. re-working the card could bring hunter variety. why not?
3. consensus on paladin before gvg was that it was not viable in high rank ladder. muster for battle seems completely fine to me. moving it to 4 mana fucks the card because paladin has so many 4 drops already. they need that 3 mana play. leave it be imo
4. the card is too powerful. fits in the 7 mana slot and bgh doesnt even counter it. fits into every deck, and has rage inducing rng effects. nerfing it to 8 mana tho probably kills the card because it has to compete with all the 8-9 drop legendaries. card is fun to play tho. theres countless opinions and pros and cons to reworking any of the stats on dr boom so i will avoid that discussion. however, my suggestion (without a whole lot of thought) is basically rework the card, lowering the mana and the stats on dr boom. im starving for viable legendaries that are lower cost. is there a single 4 drop legendary? make it a 4 drop 44 with 1-3 boom bots. or 6 mana 5-5 with same bots, or 7 mana 7-5. something does need to change tho but i don't want to see a cool card get eliminated.
5. this card hasn't left much of an opinion on me, im thinking maybe u had a bad run against this card and are a little biased. don't think this card is a problem in current meta but you might be ahead of the curve in seeing the strength of this card. im kind of interested in seeing if theres a way to construct a deck that exploits this. but.. i don't think this card should be on blizzard's radar for nerfing just yet
the starving buzzard change is actually a buff, not a nerf. just saying. agree on that one.
light of the naaru: good point, i didnt think of that before.
i disagree on muster because the recruits arent worth 2. the only reason they cost two is because you can make them forever.
i also love the boomster, but he is everywhere. bgh is also everywhere though, so i dunno if he'll really get a nerf.
undertaker: i totally disagree the he needs a nerf. i like playing control as much as everyone, but undertaker singlehandedly keeps control honest. with the guaranteed mana increase in this game, aggro decks need a threat that can come out early and scale into the mid game, otherwise this game will turn into midrange minion football (ew). aggro demands answers, what other minions require an answer as much as the UT? decks have to deal with him, and tech for him, but theres not much of a difference between teching against undertaker and other aggro drops. i hope he stays as is.
Muster and DR Boom are fine, Muster is a very needed early game drop for a class that otherwise doesn't have them' asides from minibot and Paladin's 4 mana slot is really cloggy. plus you need to remember that vanilla 1/1's are 0 mana cards (Hai wisp) and that recruits cost 2 only because they are hero powers.
Many will disagree with me but Dr Boom is fine , he's what the classes that want to play control and lack AoE need to play not every class has access to flamestrike. and sometimes you don't get that deadly poison to bladeflurry for more than 1 damage.
1. I agree Undertaker is very annoying card. However i think increasing his cost to 2 mana will make him unplayable. The reason why he is so strong is follow up with deathrattle minions on turn 2. If your opponent doesn't have this suddenly Undertaker is not so good. Imo changing it to 1 mana 1/3 with only attack buff is good option.
3. I don't know how you calculate 7 mana? 3 tokens for 1 mana each (not 2 mana) and 1 mana weapon so 4 mana total but it is a class card so its fine IMO. 3 mana can be advantage also for opponent because he can have additional turn to clean tokens before Quartermaster
4. Dr. Boom is fine anyone can use him so nobody has advantage. Also he is a legendary so his power is justified.
5. [card]Light of the Naaru[/card] this card is also fine. It opens some combo POSSIBILITY for priest which is very hard to make it work because
a) Lightwarden has 2 health and dies to everything
b) You must pay 2 mana each turn buff her or use Circle of Healing but at this point if this grants you a win yo probably win anyway.
The only card which need buff IMO are Undertaker,Mad Scientist (too much tempo he should cost 3 mana) and Savannah Highmane (obviously better than cairne rare card. It should have 5/5 stats and summon 2 1/1 hienas)
I hope everyone understand what i try to say. English isn't my native language ;)
silver hand recruits cost 2 mana to summon with hero power thus 2x 3+1 for LJ= 7
the starving buzzard change is actually a buff, not a nerf. just saying. agree on that one.
light of the naaru: good point, i didnt think of that before.
i disagree on muster because the recruits arent worth 2. the only reason they cost two is because you can make them forever.
i also love the boomster, but he is everywhere. bgh is also everywhere though, so i dunno if he'll really get a nerf.
undertaker: i totally disagree the he needs a nerf. i like playing control as much as everyone, but undertaker singlehandedly keeps control honest. with the guaranteed mana increase in this game, aggro decks need a threat that can come out early and scale into the mid game, otherwise this game will turn into midrange minion football (ew). aggro demands answers, what other minions require an answer as much as the UT? decks have to deal with him, and tech for him, but theres not much of a difference between teching against undertaker and other aggro drops. i hope he stays as is.
exactly my point on UT in my post but you said it better. but, the reason i think people whine about this card so much is because of what i said as well. dont get me wrong tho, UT is sick
1. I agree Undertaker is very annoying card. However i think increasing his cost to 2 mana will make him unplayable. The reason why he is so strong is follow up with deathrattle minions on turn 2. If your opponent doesn't have this suddenly Undertaker is not so good. Imo changing it to 1 mana 1/3 with only attack buff is good option.
I like this suggestion. Increasing the mana cost would ruin the deathrattle decks. Stopping the undertakers health from beeing buffed will help it from snowballing so much. It will still be strong, but now it does not get totally out of control.
I would like to add another card to this list. Echo of Medivh. The potential value from this card is so insane that I think it's just a matter before people will really exploit it. (some are doing this already, but I think it will see even more play in the future if it's not nerfed.) Not sure how to nerf it, but getting an extra minion of your choice back into your hand while still having it on board can single-handedly swing a game. Maybe increase the cost, or making the cost dependent on the number of minions that you copy. Something like 3 mana + 1 mana for each minion copied. So if you have seven minions on board it will cost 10 mana, so it will still be playable and very strong, but the tempo of the card will be reduced.
undertaker: i totally disagree the he needs a nerf. i like playing control as much as everyone, but undertaker singlehandedly keeps control honest. with the guaranteed mana increase in this game, aggro decks need a threat that can come out early and scale into the mid game, otherwise this game will turn into midrange minion football (ew). aggro demands answers, what other minions require an answer as much as the UT? decks have to deal with him, and tech for him, but theres not much of a difference between teching against undertaker and other aggro drops. i hope he stays as is.
I can see your point on this however because of its low drop synergy the concept of keeping something honest and blowing it out of the water are very murky and not distinct. Example. there are 4x 1 drop death rattles available to hunter. 7x in the 2's, 3 in the 3's, 2 in 4's, 4 in 5's, , 4 in 6, 7 the can get 2 from a Dr. Boom or 1 fromMalorne from a Webspinner. This means that no matter where in the curve you get Undertaker the possibility of always getting synergy increase in value is available. No other minion in this game has that ability or value. And because it grows in life 1 per death rattle, many 1 drop removal option are not viable to counter him when played with coin and a follow up death rattle minion.
no as it is a card and thus can be combo'd off of and used to synergize with. Wisp is a 1/1 so for that body plus do 1 damage where every you want it jumps to 1. This makes it superior to a mage hero power every single time. but its not. If muster for battle gave wisp instead of tokens I would be ok with it, but since quarter masters effect is off the tokens pallys make then the value of muster for battle increases in value 3x come turn 8 when played in combo. This combo puts 11 damage on the board, now this is not broken but at 3 life many aoe's will struggle less augmented by something else such as another spell or minion like wild pyromancer. At current there are really only 2 classes that have a single card option for this. Mage and warlock. Shaman's lightning storm can not be counted as the variance requires spell power to ensure removal thus another interaction would be needed. Even with all that your still gonna have at least a 2/1 on the board thus always leaving the Paladin a board state. There is virtually no draw back to slotting two of these into a paladin deck. I agree paladins needed something, but I feel perhaps this was to knee jerk of a response, then again with the meta still in a state of flux it is very hard to quantify the power level of a card, however just from base math value, its an auto include in every paladin build.
silver hand recruits cost 2 mana to summon with hero power thus 2x 3+1 for LJ= 7
I would like to add why this is the correct value for this card. It is due to Quartermaster. Before Quartermaster I would agree that you could say that the equivalent value of Muster for Battle is something like 4 mana, three 1/1s and a Light's Justice is worth four mana. With the potential buff that you can get from Quartermaster this value is now two mana for each Silver Hand Recruit. You can only get Silver Hand Recruits from Muster for Battle and hero power thus giving Muster for Battle a value of seven mana as you can only hero power once each turn.
undertaker: i totally disagree the he needs a nerf. i like playing control as much as everyone, but undertaker singlehandedly keeps control honest. with the guaranteed mana increase in this game, aggro decks need a threat that can come out early and scale into the mid game, otherwise this game will turn into midrange minion football (ew). aggro demands answers, what other minions require an answer as much as the UT? decks have to deal with him, and tech for him, but theres not much of a difference between teching against undertaker and other aggro drops. i hope he stays as is.
I can see your point on this however because of its low drop synergy the concept of keeping something honest and blowing it out of the water are very murky and not distinct. Example. there are 4x 1 drop death rattles available to hunter. 7x in the 2's, 3 in the 3's, 2 in 4's, 4 in 5's, , 4 in 6, 7 the can get 2 from a Dr. Boom or 1 fromMalorne from a Webspinner. This means that no matter where in the curve you get Undertaker the possibility of always getting synergy increase in value is available. No other minion in this game has that ability or value. And because it grows in life 1 per death rattle, many 1 drop removal option are not viable to counter him when played with coin and a follow up death rattle minion.
It is not completly true. You have to have your Undertaker in your first ~8 cards to have such synergy. Later he is useless and easy to kill. I know because me and my friend made such cancer huntard deck and this scenario isn"t happening very often. It is maybe 50% max. Problem with undertaker is his increrasing health nothing else. Because he can quickly grow up out of range of early weapon 2 drops and then 3 drops. If he had 3 health fixed he always could be killed with 3 attack 2 drop of axes, frostbolts etc.
I fail to see how him always being kill able with these weapons and spells is a justification. There are a plethora of 2 and 3 mana minions who share this same fate as they are not meant to be as persistent as undertaker tends to be. So why is it that a 1 mana basic card should be allowed to have a higher value then a 3 mana card?
Muster for Battle is just combo which pally needed. Other classes have their own combos (maybe except of priest). And i don't think that speaking of "potential" value makes sense. You can't pull of this combo everytime and you can be heavly countered like for example Flamestrike
Mages have flame strike, Warlocks have hell fire, and twisting nether. When you open up to multiple card interactions only priest can effectively counter this entire play with a soul priest circle combo plus hero power. Every other class must suffer a massive tempo loss which allows for the paladin to drop bigger minions behind it. Its a trap play every single time. If you try to counter the combo you suffer such a tempo loss that allows for the paladin to lay down nothing but big minions. This combo is a seal the deal kinda of play if you are ahead in tempo. Once it is played there is virtually no hope in recovery. Now this is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. However as it has become an auto include in virtually every paladin design its effect must be examined to see if it is to strong of a play. In my opinion yes it is.
Muster for Battle is just combo which pally needed. Other classes have their own combos (maybe except of priest). And i don't think that speaking of "potential" value makes sense. You can't pull of this combo everytime and you can be heavly countered like for example Flamestrike
Mages have flame strike, Warlocks have hell fire, and twisting nether. When you open up to multiple card interactions only priest can effectively counter this entire play with a soul priest circle combo plus hero power. Every other class must suffer a massive tempo loss which allows for the paladin to drop bigger minions behind it. Its a trap play every single time. If you try to counter the combo you suffer such a tempo loss that allows for the paladin to lay down nothing but big minions. This combo is a seal the deal kinda of play if you are ahead in tempo. Once it is played there is virtually no hope in recovery. Now this is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. However as it has become an auto include in virtually every paladin design its effect must be examined to see if it is to strong of a play. In my opinion yes it is.
As opposed to druids 14 dmg combo? As painful as it is to be facing 3x 3/3 minions and a 2/5 on turn 8 as a paladin, it's nowhere near as powerful as you make it out to be when you consider druids have had something stronger for one mana more for a very long time with little counterplay but to keep your health up or throwing up a taunt. At least with a paladin combo you've got a turn to remove minions and reduce the incoming damage the following turn.
As for the lonely 1/1's that get played long before the dream turn 8, you'd be silly not to start removing those in fear of a Quartermaster.
As for your "auto-include" argument, seriously it's something that gets heard every time a new archetype pops up and becomes pretty consistent. Should Northshire Cleric get cut? How about that Loatheb that every single control based deck ran pre-gvg and still do, that received no adjusments.
How about Undertaker? Pretty sure that's also an auto-include in the hunter/zoo aggro decks. I don't think you've given this topic as much thought as you should have since it seems you haven't taken into account the other popular cards/combos that caused plenty of pain in the past that have not been addressed because they do still have counterplay.
You cannot count combo cards like that. Based on this, how do you value a car like savage roar?
Isnt that what they did with starving buzzard and unleash the hounds repeatedly. Im not making this up off the top of my head or having a boohoo this needs to be nerf tantrum. Im looking at the examples shown to us by the blizzard devs in their justification for making changes and applying them to what we are seeing now. Now I may be wrong, these are opinions and subject to such critique. However I am willing to discuss them because thats what people should do is have a discussion on topics rather then rage and flame out.
I fail to see how him always being kill able with these weapons and spells is a justification. There are a plethora of 2 and 3 mana minions who share this same fate as they are not meant to be as persistent as undertaker tends to be. So why is it that a 1 mana basic card should be allowed to have a higher value then a 3 mana card?
Easy with 3 health fixed he will be like Mana Wyrm and nobody complains about that. And what you do when playing Undertaker you buff him with low costs crappy deathrattle minions. With 3 health you can easy remove him and he is the biggest threat for early game in those decks. So after easly removed undertaker your opponent have some small minions then he probably will run out of cards and steam and lose ;).
You have a very excellent point in this. Lets look at that...Mana wyrm 1/3 that grows via spells played. Mages have a plethora of spells. However to play a spell at 2 mana means your not improving your board state, less it is mirror image. Adding minions that have a great effect already and because of their trigger mechanic have an even greater synergy for longevity of a minion make undertaker still better then a mana wyrm. I will also say that cause of coin you can get a mana wyrm to a 3/3 on turn 1 something undertaker can not do. It is important to not however that minions make up huge amount of damange done in this game, more so then by spells. Thus playing a minion to synergize with other minions is just a smart play as in terms of murlocs, however even murlocks had a weakness one that we all learned to counter. The point here is that undertaker does not have this weakness.
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When GvG came out there were several cards that were changed as to not provide a huge boost to one class or another. Most had their mana cost increased by 1 but no real stat changes. Here we shall look at possible changes to be made in order to remove and or stabilize the meta to a more playable state rather then, "Greetings traveler" every 5 minutes. Below I will list my 5 personal choices and suggestions for change. Please list your own thoughts and changes.
1. Undertaker. This card is probably one of the most over played and "cancerous" creations by blizzard. It creates so much fear of snow ball that as a player you are forced to take several answers for it. If you do not get an answer for it quickly your likely hood of survival drops significantly. Proposed change. It is extremely too easy to exploit this card in the early game and its power curve is very difficult to counter. Change it to a 2 mana with same stats and then it shifts 1 turn but can still be threat however opens up more possibilities to counter it.
2. Starving Buzzard. This card has been nerfed more times then I can even count and its getting rather sad. As it stands as a 5 mana 3/2 it is unplayable and hunters have no reliable draw options to explore other builds and designs and all their decks are the same. FACE. Change 4 mana 2/3. What this will do is make it more playable while not breaking the game with unleash the hounds. Now at turn 7 you can get an unleash to draw combo but with the new gvg cards in play this will not mean all that much. And in fact it will make clockwork giant a great counter to such design and thus give that more play ability.
3.Muster for Battle. the value you get from a muster for battle is 7 mana for 3. 3 tokens + a lights justice. this is over a 2 to 1 value and is very extreme. Change. increase cost to 4.
4. Dr. Boom. While I love this card for so many reasons the value of what it can do as a Neutral minion are pretty damn extreme. best case scenario this card can cause 15 damage. However in practice the average is 11. While it gives validity to Big game hunter being included in ones deck the value of the card for its pricing is a tad bit too good. change to a 7/5 with same ability.
5. Light of the Naaru. Im not 100% sold this needs a change, though I feel a bit strange for a class level card to consistently pull in a neutral card that has a huge upswing to that same class. I think perhaps looking over other options in the priest arsenal would be more wise.
I agree with all the points but not with this one. While muster / quartermaster turn 8 is a very strong play, it's still very weak to aoe.
1/1 tokens are hardly worth 2 mana; Silver Hand Recruit is infact as a 1 mana card by itself, it costs 2 mana only when it's a hero power. Muster for Battle is also one of the two cards that are making paladin viable in the meta against fast aggro decks, it would destroy the class to have it on 4 mana, specially considering how much stuff paladins have in that mana slot.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Good thread man. Disagree on the muster nerf though. I think it's fine as is. Pally needed something strong and it's finally a solid class as is, but not OP.
1. every one agrees with you so im gonna look like a moron here but i don't think it should be changed. people get SOO angry when they lose to hunter and zoo because they feel helpless when they get blown out really fast. slow, drawn out deaths, where you are equally helpless (in games where they get all the answers, similarly to aggro getting turn 1 undertaker) from a control deck don't stick in people's memory. undertaker is a very powerful card but nerfing it could remove hunter from the ladder. people love to talk about midrange hunter but i don't see it, and all their other cards have been nerfed pigeon-holing hunter into aggro.
2. agreed card is unplayable. re-working the card could bring hunter variety. why not?
3. consensus on paladin before gvg was that it was not viable in high rank ladder. muster for battle seems completely fine to me. moving it to 4 mana fucks the card because paladin has so many 4 drops already. they need that 3 mana play. leave it be imo
4. the card is too powerful. fits in the 7 mana slot and bgh doesnt even counter it. fits into every deck, and has rage inducing rng effects. nerfing it to 8 mana tho probably kills the card because it has to compete with all the 8-9 drop legendaries. card is fun to play tho. theres countless opinions and pros and cons to reworking any of the stats on dr boom so i will avoid that discussion. however, my suggestion (without a whole lot of thought) is basically rework the card, lowering the mana and the stats on dr boom. im starving for viable legendaries that are lower cost. is there a single 4 drop legendary? make it a 4 drop 44 with 1-3 boom bots. or 6 mana 5-5 with same bots, or 7 mana 7-5. something does need to change tho but i don't want to see a cool card get eliminated.
5. this card hasn't left much of an opinion on me, im thinking maybe u had a bad run against this card and are a little biased. don't think this card is a problem in current meta but you might be ahead of the curve in seeing the strength of this card. im kind of interested in seeing if theres a way to construct a deck that exploits this. but.. i don't think this card should be on blizzard's radar for nerfing just yet
the starving buzzard change is actually a buff, not a nerf. just saying. agree on that one.
light of the naaru: good point, i didnt think of that before.
i disagree on muster because the recruits arent worth 2. the only reason they cost two is because you can make them forever.
i also love the boomster, but he is everywhere. bgh is also everywhere though, so i dunno if he'll really get a nerf.
undertaker: i totally disagree the he needs a nerf. i like playing control as much as everyone, but undertaker singlehandedly keeps control honest. with the guaranteed mana increase in this game, aggro decks need a threat that can come out early and scale into the mid game, otherwise this game will turn into midrange minion football (ew). aggro demands answers, what other minions require an answer as much as the UT? decks have to deal with him, and tech for him, but theres not much of a difference between teching against undertaker and other aggro drops. i hope he stays as is.
Muster and DR Boom are fine, Muster is a very needed early game drop for a class that otherwise doesn't have them' asides from minibot and Paladin's 4 mana slot is really cloggy. plus you need to remember that vanilla 1/1's are 0 mana cards (Hai wisp) and that recruits cost 2 only because they are hero powers.
Many will disagree with me but Dr Boom is fine , he's what the classes that want to play control and lack AoE need to play not every class has access to flamestrike. and sometimes you don't get that deadly poison to bladeflurry for more than 1 damage.
silver hand recruits cost 2 mana to summon with hero power thus 2x 3+1 for LJ= 7
exactly my point on UT in my post but you said it better. but, the reason i think people whine about this card so much is because of what i said as well. dont get me wrong tho, UT is sick
Yeah, but that's only because it's a hero power. They're just wisps otherwise in terms of stats.
I like this suggestion. Increasing the mana cost would ruin the deathrattle decks. Stopping the undertakers health from beeing buffed will help it from snowballing so much. It will still be strong, but now it does not get totally out of control.
I would like to add another card to this list. Echo of Medivh. The potential value from this card is so insane that I think it's just a matter before people will really exploit it. (some are doing this already, but I think it will see even more play in the future if it's not nerfed.) Not sure how to nerf it, but getting an extra minion of your choice back into your hand while still having it on board can single-handedly swing a game. Maybe increase the cost, or making the cost dependent on the number of minions that you copy. Something like 3 mana + 1 mana for each minion copied. So if you have seven minions on board it will cost 10 mana, so it will still be playable and very strong, but the tempo of the card will be reduced.
Going by this logic Elven Archer should cost 3 mana. It's a 1/1 with a mage hero power attached :)
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I can see your point on this however because of its low drop synergy the concept of keeping something honest and blowing it out of the water are very murky and not distinct. Example. there are 4x 1 drop death rattles available to hunter. 7x in the 2's, 3 in the 3's, 2 in 4's, 4 in 5's, , 4 in 6, 7 the can get 2 from a Dr. Boom or 1 fromMalorne from a Webspinner. This means that no matter where in the curve you get Undertaker the possibility of always getting synergy increase in value is available. No other minion in this game has that ability or value. And because it grows in life 1 per death rattle, many 1 drop removal option are not viable to counter him when played with coin and a follow up death rattle minion.
no as it is a card and thus can be combo'd off of and used to synergize with. Wisp is a 1/1 so for that body plus do 1 damage where every you want it jumps to 1. This makes it superior to a mage hero power every single time. but its not. If muster for battle gave wisp instead of tokens I would be ok with it, but since quarter masters effect is off the tokens pallys make then the value of muster for battle increases in value 3x come turn 8 when played in combo. This combo puts 11 damage on the board, now this is not broken but at 3 life many aoe's will struggle less augmented by something else such as another spell or minion like wild pyromancer. At current there are really only 2 classes that have a single card option for this. Mage and warlock. Shaman's lightning storm can not be counted as the variance requires spell power to ensure removal thus another interaction would be needed. Even with all that your still gonna have at least a 2/1 on the board thus always leaving the Paladin a board state. There is virtually no draw back to slotting two of these into a paladin deck. I agree paladins needed something, but I feel perhaps this was to knee jerk of a response, then again with the meta still in a state of flux it is very hard to quantify the power level of a card, however just from base math value, its an auto include in every paladin build.
7.5 dr. = killed card
I would like to add why this is the correct value for this card. It is due to Quartermaster. Before Quartermaster I would agree that you could say that the equivalent value of Muster for Battle is something like 4 mana, three 1/1s and a Light's Justice is worth four mana. With the potential buff that you can get from Quartermaster this value is now two mana for each Silver Hand Recruit. You can only get Silver Hand Recruits from Muster for Battle and hero power thus giving Muster for Battle a value of seven mana as you can only hero power once each turn.
I fail to see how him always being kill able with these weapons and spells is a justification. There are a plethora of 2 and 3 mana minions who share this same fate as they are not meant to be as persistent as undertaker tends to be. So why is it that a 1 mana basic card should be allowed to have a higher value then a 3 mana card?
Mages have flame strike, Warlocks have hell fire, and twisting nether. When you open up to multiple card interactions only priest can effectively counter this entire play with a soul priest circle combo plus hero power. Every other class must suffer a massive tempo loss which allows for the paladin to drop bigger minions behind it. Its a trap play every single time. If you try to counter the combo you suffer such a tempo loss that allows for the paladin to lay down nothing but big minions. This combo is a seal the deal kinda of play if you are ahead in tempo. Once it is played there is virtually no hope in recovery. Now this is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. However as it has become an auto include in virtually every paladin design its effect must be examined to see if it is to strong of a play. In my opinion yes it is.
As opposed to druids 14 dmg combo? As painful as it is to be facing 3x 3/3 minions and a 2/5 on turn 8 as a paladin, it's nowhere near as powerful as you make it out to be when you consider druids have had something stronger for one mana more for a very long time with little counterplay but to keep your health up or throwing up a taunt. At least with a paladin combo you've got a turn to remove minions and reduce the incoming damage the following turn.
As for the lonely 1/1's that get played long before the dream turn 8, you'd be silly not to start removing those in fear of a Quartermaster.
As for your "auto-include" argument, seriously it's something that gets heard every time a new archetype pops up and becomes pretty consistent. Should Northshire Cleric get cut? How about that Loatheb that every single control based deck ran pre-gvg and still do, that received no adjusments.
How about Undertaker? Pretty sure that's also an auto-include in the hunter/zoo aggro decks. I don't think you've given this topic as much thought as you should have since it seems you haven't taken into account the other popular cards/combos that caused plenty of pain in the past that have not been addressed because they do still have counterplay.
Isnt that what they did with starving buzzard and unleash the hounds repeatedly. Im not making this up off the top of my head or having a boohoo this needs to be nerf tantrum. Im looking at the examples shown to us by the blizzard devs in their justification for making changes and applying them to what we are seeing now. Now I may be wrong, these are opinions and subject to such critique. However I am willing to discuss them because thats what people should do is have a discussion on topics rather then rage and flame out.
You have a very excellent point in this. Lets look at that...Mana wyrm 1/3 that grows via spells played. Mages have a plethora of spells. However to play a spell at 2 mana means your not improving your board state, less it is mirror image. Adding minions that have a great effect already and because of their trigger mechanic have an even greater synergy for longevity of a minion make undertaker still better then a mana wyrm. I will also say that cause of coin you can get a mana wyrm to a 3/3 on turn 1 something undertaker can not do. It is important to not however that minions make up huge amount of damange done in this game, more so then by spells. Thus playing a minion to synergize with other minions is just a smart play as in terms of murlocs, however even murlocks had a weakness one that we all learned to counter. The point here is that undertaker does not have this weakness.