Thank u blizzard! U guys r such fricking geniuses. Let's take miracle rogue, the second worst laddering class behind control Pali, take it and f*ck it in the *ss. Cause Gadgetzan is op right. I mean a turn 1 threat that transforms into a 4/5 yeti on turn two definetly needs a nerf. Oh wait that's undertaker sorry my bad. I mean if ur gonna do that atleast compensate rogue with a viable alternative type of deck but noooo u guys were intelligent enough to think that rogue was to good before nax, now rogue will never be good again. Hey atleast rogue got some good two drops, a 4/1 and 3/2 who can't really be played on turn 2! Excellent, Blizzard I really am glad that there are only 8 classes I have to deal with on ladder. Than u so much. Also the soulfire nerf was so great to. I mean zoo was just getting out of hand before GvG and soulfire was just making me lose every game. I mean faced almost 3 Zoolocks each day and man was I salty afterward. But that flare nerf was so stupid. I mean why would u take the least played class, hunter, and destroy their one last hope by herring flare. But otherwise ur nerfs are brilliant. Good Job Blizzard and may the nerfs screw u guys. Also I love the fact how the expansion is more expensive than Most of the playable cards currently are (Dust wise). It is lovely that u have now found a way squeeze every bit of money out hs players. Excellent Job Blizzard.
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Time is precious. Waste it wisely. Legend Seasons: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17
I can understand them nerfing Gadgetzan if they had of made Rogue more playable but now miracle will be dead and if we want to play rogue we will have to play mediocre decks most likely.
Soulfire a step in the right direction, this card was definitely too strong imo and the real problem i find with the card is that u can abuse the only drawback on it and play it with an empty hand. 1 mana does slow it down a bit so i think this is a decent change.
Flare was just ridiculous, 1 mana to remove all secrets and draw a card on top of that as well, i was running 2 of them in my hunter deck and they definitely were very strong. Hopefully people wont be afraid to play secret classes any more i think this is the best change so far.
Blizzard realized that miracle is absolutely toxic to the game and are trying to make it less played - for a good reason. That's about it. Face it, you are boring the enemy to death with your solo-parade. Play solitaire or against bots if you want to play like that.
Why doesn't Blizzard attempt to change a card's text rather then just "increase mana cost by 1" for their balancing?
Soulfire: Cost: Discard 1 Random Card. Deal 4 Damage.
Flare: Costs (1) more for each stealthed enemy minion, and for each enemy secret on the battlefield. All minions lose Stealth. Destroy all enemy Secrets. Draw a card.
It seems quite lazy, and not really dealing with the issue of balance that lie with these cards. They took a similarly lazy approach to Buzzard, where they could have used "Play" instead of summoned to prevent UTH nonsense. Now I do think these changes will slow down the removal/cycling those cards allow, but I still think there are other ways they could have been handled.
As an old time CCG player I was surprised they even had Gazeteer in the game. Cards like that always cause problems because card draw is king and sooner or later the game will have lots of cheap or free spells to abuse with it.
It made more sense as a legendary. But... If its got to be nerfed, making it cost 6 is pretty light treatment. I predict we have far from seen the last of it. Though its clear the already challenged Miracle Rogue Decks will feel un-needed pain from the change. I'll still play the card, one cost doesn't change the world except if I'm being hyper competitive.
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Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games. Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
I think Blizzard fucked up with the nerf to Soulfire, and ill tell you why.. This nerf was supposed to be aimed at zoo decks (to try and slow them down) but instead, what it does is hurt the players who play other types of warlock decks. Zoolock will hardly feel the effects of this nerf.
Their reasoning was a little muddled. Early game Soulfires are often desperate moves and cost a stronger early game, since you usually can't get rid of your hand in the first few turns. The first thing I thought when I saw the nerf was the crazy exact-mana late game plays with Handlock that I got to finish with a sometimes game-winning Soulfire. I will really miss those.
Now that I had sometime to play some games and theory craft, I think the Soulfire nerf is rather fair.
Soulfire for 0 mana is just too good. Probably the best tempo card of the entire game. Zoo mirrors and many other games are decided by whether the Zoo has Soulfire within the first 3 turns. 1 mana is still very strong removal and can still be coined out, but in turn will probably reduce the consistency of Zoo decks considerably.
Playing Soulfire will now be a meaningful choice and can impact the way you curve out, which I think is overall healthy for the game.
Soulfire is now too week tho. Discarding a card and a mana for 4 damage? You can already get 2 damage for 1 mana or 3 for 2. So discarding a hand card (and therefore an entire draw) for 4 damage only saves you a single point of mana and nets a single more damage.
0 mana for 4 damage is great value yes, but that random discard was DEFINITELY enough of a drawback to justify this card. Especially in handlock and demonlock where every card is vital to your success
Underestimating just how important Soulfire is for tempo-swings in Warlocks. Not only did it have versatility, but with the speed of Zoo it would allow a Zoo to finish with a top-deck or gain an unbalanced tempo advantage in the early game. This prevents Zoo from being able to shut down opponents early game turns and establish board control at the same time. Instead it's an either or with this nerf. Fair in my eyes. Zoo has to play a more high level game with this change, and can't rely on Soulfire to be the free tempo advantage they crave. I feel Zoo will adapt, but the skill curve will definitely be raised.
At first glance it doesn't make sense that they nerf an underpowered class like Rogue by nerfing the Gadzetan, but then people must admit that something is terribly wrong when the whole class fully depends on a single card. Rogues could use some help, but not in the form of one overpowered minion mechanic.
This is a good point. It reminds me of how mind control turned priests into a meh class. However, it was needed since priest shouldn't have to rely on an 8 mana mind control to be competitive. What they REALLY needed were cards like dark cultist.
Rogue is probably similar. Personally, I'm not sure this will stop miracle, though honestly I'm not sure it needs a nerf based stop. The counter cards will do a number to them anyway. The Auctioneer nerf seems more aimed at what GvG will do to boost it's value.
But the real issue is that Rogue has no alternative. It would be nice to not HAVE to go miracle as a rogue. GvG seems to be trying to evoke that. Even if it fails, a push in that direction is probably the better solution.
Guys, do you realize that not much before the season closed on EU and NA, the number 1 legend was a Miracle Rogue? Miracle is still strong, even though it is not popular on the ladder.
Regarding the nerfs, the Auctioneer change was inevitable. I really want Rogue to be viable, just not the way today is. Flare became unplayable, but I agree, it was a strong card. Soulfire also not that strong anymore with the new 2 mana 3 damage card coming without the discard.
Blizzard always nerfs what people cry about, Undertaker will get it's nerf soon I believe. It is broken as well, we will see.
I agree with the nerfs. Miracle wasn't so broken anymore but they prolly envisioned a comeback with gvg cards. The other two were due without any doubt imho.
What's wrong with new archetypes rising anyways? :-) will be fun.
Thank u blizzard! U guys r such fricking geniuses. Let's take miracle rogue, the second worst laddering class behind control Pali, take it and f*ck it in the *ss. Cause Gadgetzan is op right. I mean a turn 1 threat that transforms into a 4/5 yeti on turn two definetly needs a nerf. Oh wait that's undertaker sorry my bad. I mean if ur gonna do that atleast compensate rogue with a viable alternative type of deck but noooo u guys were intelligent enough to think that rogue was to good before nax, now rogue will never be good again. Hey atleast rogue got some good two drops, a 4/1 and 3/2 who can't really be played on turn 2! Excellent, Blizzard I really am glad that there are only 8 classes I have to deal with on ladder. Than u so much. Also the soulfire nerf was so great to. I mean zoo was just getting out of hand before GvG and soulfire was just making me lose every game. I mean faced almost 3 Zoolocks each day and man was I salty afterward. But that flare nerf was so stupid. I mean why would u take the least played class, hunter, and destroy their one last hope by herring flare. But otherwise ur nerfs are brilliant. Good Job Blizzard and may the nerfs screw u guys. Also I love the fact how the expansion is more expensive than Most of the playable cards currently are (Dust wise). It is lovely that u have now found a way squeeze every bit of money out hs players. Excellent Job Blizzard.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely. Legend Seasons: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17
Current deck: Not playing much anymore
Highest rank: legend rank 9 Highest finish: legend rank 103 Infinite Arena Player
I can understand them nerfing Gadgetzan if they had of made Rogue more playable but now miracle will be dead and if we want to play rogue we will have to play mediocre decks most likely.
Soulfire a step in the right direction, this card was definitely too strong imo and the real problem i find with the card is that u can abuse the only drawback on it and play it with an empty hand. 1 mana does slow it down a bit so i think this is a decent change.
Flare was just ridiculous, 1 mana to remove all secrets and draw a card on top of that as well, i was running 2 of them in my hunter deck and they definitely were very strong. Hopefully people wont be afraid to play secret classes any more i think this is the best change so far.
Blizzard realized that miracle is absolutely toxic to the game and are trying to make it less played - for a good reason. That's about it. Face it, you are boring the enemy to death with your solo-parade. Play solitaire or against bots if you want to play like that.
Why doesn't Blizzard attempt to change a card's text rather then just "increase mana cost by 1" for their balancing?
Soulfire: Cost: Discard 1 Random Card. Deal 4 Damage.
Flare: Costs (1) more for each stealthed enemy minion, and for each enemy secret on the battlefield. All minions lose Stealth. Destroy all enemy Secrets. Draw a card.
It seems quite lazy, and not really dealing with the issue of balance that lie with these cards.
They took a similarly lazy approach to Buzzard, where they could have used "Play" instead of summoned to prevent UTH nonsense.
Now I do think these changes will slow down the removal/cycling those cards allow, but I still think there are other ways they could have been handled.
As an old time CCG player I was surprised they even had Gazeteer in the game. Cards like that always cause problems because card draw is king and sooner or later the game will have lots of cheap or free spells to abuse with it.
It made more sense as a legendary. But... If its got to be nerfed, making it cost 6 is pretty light treatment. I predict we have far from seen the last of it. Though its clear the already challenged Miracle Rogue Decks will feel un-needed pain from the change. I'll still play the card, one cost doesn't change the world except if I'm being hyper competitive.
Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games.
Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
I think Blizzard fucked up with the nerf to Soulfire, and ill tell you why.. This nerf was supposed to be aimed at zoo decks (to try and slow them down) but instead, what it does is hurt the players who play other types of warlock decks. Zoolock will hardly feel the effects of this nerf.
Their reasoning was a little muddled. Early game Soulfires are often desperate moves and cost a stronger early game, since you usually can't get rid of your hand in the first few turns. The first thing I thought when I saw the nerf was the crazy exact-mana late game plays with Handlock that I got to finish with a sometimes game-winning Soulfire. I will really miss those.
Wielder of Botsbane, The Slayer of That Which Has No Life.
Now that I had sometime to play some games and theory craft, I think the Soulfire nerf is rather fair.
Soulfire for 0 mana is just too good. Probably the best tempo card of the entire game. Zoo mirrors and many other games are decided by whether the Zoo has Soulfire within the first 3 turns. 1 mana is still very strong removal and can still be coined out, but in turn will probably reduce the consistency of Zoo decks considerably.
Playing Soulfire will now be a meaningful choice and can impact the way you curve out, which I think is overall healthy for the game.
Soulfire is now too week tho. Discarding a card and a mana for 4 damage? You can already get 2 damage for 1 mana or 3 for 2. So discarding a hand card (and therefore an entire draw) for 4 damage only saves you a single point of mana and nets a single more damage.
warlock cards that discard cards from hand should only be playable if the specified number of cards is in the warlock's hand
Blizzard fucked up
0 mana for 4 damage is great value yes, but that random discard was DEFINITELY enough of a drawback to justify this card. Especially in handlock and demonlock where every card is vital to your success
Auctioneer. Was that really necessary? I mean Miracle Rogue isn't that strong/common anymore.
Put your faith in the Lock. *Desideratus Bellum*
rip miracle rogue =(
Underestimating just how important Soulfire is for tempo-swings in Warlocks. Not only did it have versatility, but with the speed of Zoo it would allow a Zoo to finish with a top-deck or gain an unbalanced tempo advantage in the early game. This prevents Zoo from being able to shut down opponents early game turns and establish board control at the same time. Instead it's an either or with this nerf. Fair in my eyes. Zoo has to play a more high level game with this change, and can't rely on Soulfire to be the free tempo advantage they crave. I feel Zoo will adapt, but the skill curve will definitely be raised.
This is a good point. It reminds me of how mind control turned priests into a meh class. However, it was needed since priest shouldn't have to rely on an 8 mana mind control to be competitive. What they REALLY needed were cards like dark cultist.
Rogue is probably similar. Personally, I'm not sure this will stop miracle, though honestly I'm not sure it needs a nerf based stop. The counter cards will do a number to them anyway. The Auctioneer nerf seems more aimed at what GvG will do to boost it's value.
But the real issue is that Rogue has no alternative. It would be nice to not HAVE to go miracle as a rogue. GvG seems to be trying to evoke that. Even if it fails, a push in that direction is probably the better solution.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
More dust for GvG? Woooo!
100% approved.
Guys, do you realize that not much before the season closed on EU and NA, the number 1 legend was a Miracle Rogue? Miracle is still strong, even though it is not popular on the ladder.
Regarding the nerfs, the Auctioneer change was inevitable. I really want Rogue to be viable, just not the way today is. Flare became unplayable, but I agree, it was a strong card. Soulfire also not that strong anymore with the new 2 mana 3 damage card coming without the discard.
Blizzard always nerfs what people cry about, Undertaker will get it's nerf soon I believe. It is broken as well, we will see.
I agree with the nerfs. Miracle wasn't so broken anymore but they prolly envisioned a comeback with gvg cards. The other two were due without any doubt imho.
What's wrong with new archetypes rising anyways? :-) will be fun.