There are so many negative comment on this and i cant help but feel that people dont know what they are talking about. People saying that changing 5 cards doesnt make any diffrence. So lets put it to the test! I open the first match with this deck:
Make a deck and explain how u counter this, then i will swap 5 cards in order to recounter that deck.
Umm ,just something to bring up before people get going:
the negativity isn't based on the inability to make sideboards. Most people can see how you can, for example, put in polymorph and perhaps remove counterspell from a mage deck to deal with your deck.
The issues are twofold:
1. Deck variety. Right now what tends to happen is that players will bring 3 good decks, and assume one gets banned, then have to struggle to figure out what to being for that 4th deck. Thus whatever the meta goes with, you'll see at least 4-7 different classes in the tournament with a few from the odd-ball classes as 'that 4th deck'.
So the worry is, what happens when you have to just bring one deck: what stops you from just bringing the current meta molder? Everyone bringing just patron warrior, or everyone bringing druid 6 months ago, or everyone bringing priest, that sort of thing. It sounds much more boring.
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
Sort of like if everyone in the world is hungry and they announced a free food cart, but only in Anchorage, Alaska, USA.
Yay. Great. someone got fed. But what about everyone who doesn't live in Alaska?
Umm ,just something to bring up before people get going:
the negativity isn't based on the inability to make sideboards. Most people can see how you can, for example, put in polymorph and perhaps remove counterspell from a mage deck to deal with your deck.
The issues are twofold:
1. Deck variety. Right now what tends to happen is that players will bring 3 good decks, and assume one gets banned, then have to struggle to figure out what to being for that 4th deck. Thus whatever the meta goes with, you'll see at least 4-7 different classes in the tournament with a few from the odd-ball classes as 'that 4th deck'.
So the worry is, what happens when you have to just bring one deck: what stops you from just bringing the current meta molder? Everyone bringing just patron warrior, or everyone bringing druid 6 months ago, or everyone bringing priest, that sort of thing. It sounds much more boring.
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
Sort of like if everyone in the world is hungry and they announced a free food cart, but only in Anchorage, Alaska, USA.
Yay. Great. someone got fed. But what about everyone who doesn't live in Alaska?
So yeha, that's sort of the issue.
1. Well if 1 deck is the absolutely best, which rarely every one can agree on what is, then there will be a counter deck that is good against that deck. Also this counter deck will get a counter deck, so this is 3 diffrent decks for each "best deck choice" + the odd ball decks. On top of this it will take alot of time and testing before this is fully optimized where we will see alot more decks. Following this logic this could turn out to be even better then conquest, which alot of pros didnt think was very good in the first place.
2. Its stupid to use this argument, because some of the player base gets something, doesnt mean the rest of the player base wont get something at a later stage. This isnt a game mode, but the new tournament rules, you cannot compair those. The "big player base" just got nerfs which i think wasnt needed.
First of all i think that match up is pretty even, HSreplay has stats on this that i have attached.
I would go with this version as my counter to your deck:
I think this greedy list with alot of counter cards would make me very favored. Now u can try and recounter me.
I think it isn't even the best possible counter... If I played even lock my third deck 5 swapped cards would be mechathun package.
I think that goes way away from what this deck does, its not a control deck if the warrior gets the board at some point u will lose before u have drawn your whole deck. I dont agree on your idea at all, but its a creative though :)
2. Its stupid to use this argument, because some of the player base gets something, doesnt mean the rest of the player base wont get something at a later stage. This isnt a game mode, but the new tournament rules, you cannot compair those. The "big player base" just got nerfs which i think wasnt needed.
To bring up a topic that isn't given to everyone, and has a unique ability to cause players to "Think" and be "Creative" is in its own right an awesome piece of value. The fact that this rule isn't something that effects every HS player gets, doesn't mean it can't be learned by everyone.
This isn’t how decks are chosen guys. Each player chooses one deck and keeps it secret until each has chosen. You can’t just change your deck.
The fact this is a forum these decks aren't real and this isn't a real tournament, it's a concept in learning how and why decks are chosen as well as the tech cards that are brought with. Also if this were to be done in secret we'd have blank posts saying "here's my deck now try and counter it", thus there is some leeway needed in order to establish and portray the concept so people can learn.
My thoughts: When someone is trying to educate people on how and why things are done there are always those who want to shut them down, whether it be because they want to keep others ignorant or it's their own ignorance. Applaud those who wish to teach, help them do it better and more efficiently. Don't call for them to stop or ridicule them for taking the effort to do so.
After all if your parents and teachers were treated the same way and were not there to teach you, you would most likely not be able to post your disparaging comments here.
“There is divine beauty in learning…. To learn means to accept the postulate that life did not begin at my birth. Others have been here before me, and I walk in their footsteps.” ―Elie Wiesel
First of all i think that match up is pretty even, HSreplay has stats on this that i have attached.
I would go with this version as my counter to your deck:
I think this greedy list with alot of counter cards would make me very favored. Now u can try and recounter me.
I don't believe that your refined list will be more greedy than my Warrior. Your deck have 2 main value generators, Gul'dan and Lich King, while the Warrior deck has Hatchling, Cube, Faceless, Zola, Omega Assembly and Dr. Boom.
But for the sake of argument, I would replace one faceless with Elise for more value. I think that should be more than enough.
First of all i think that match up is pretty even, HSreplay has stats on this that i have attached.
I would go with this version as my counter to your deck:
I think this greedy list with alot of counter cards would make me very favored. Now u can try and recounter me.
I don't believe that your refined list will be more greedy than my Warrior. Your deck have 2 main value generators, Gul'dan and Lich King, while the Warrior deck has Hatchling, Cube, Faceless, Zola, Omega Assembly and Dr. Boom.
But for the sake of argument, I would replace one faceless with Elise for more value. I think that should be more than enough.
I think the matchup is not about the most value, u dont have draw to remove 1-2 threads a turn, and with geist, oozes and nerubians i can disrupt your answers. U will have to react to me the whole game and at some point you have to top deck answers for several turns in a row to win.
I think im so favored with the 2nd list that it would be 65% in my favor. Ofcause this is just theory talking, but iv played both my deck and yours alot.
And taking out faceless would be the last card i would change, that is the card that i really fear the most and can tip the scales.
If i where u i would consider quest, taunts and card draw as my new cards.
I mentioned this before but you can also start off with building deck 2 and 3 as 2 different entirely archetypes with complimenting matchups and then make deck 1 as the least bad bridge deck possible. Deck 2 and 3 can have 10 swapped cards which is pretty massive.
I have no way of knowing if this approach is better or worse than starting with an optimized deck and teching it for different matchups with deck 2 and 3 of course.
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
I don’t give a crap about tournaments this is garbage
I mentioned this before but you can also start off with building deck 2 and 3 as 2 different entirely archetypes with complimenting matchups and then make deck 1 as the least bad bridge deck possible. Deck 2 and 3 can have 10 swapped cards which is pretty massive.
I have no way of knowing if this approach is better or worse than starting with an optimized deck and teching it for different matchups with deck 2 and 3 of course.
Im not sure u are right with this one, I think 2nd and 3rd has to have 25 of the same cards of the main deck.
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
I don’t give a crap about tournaments this is garbage
It doesnt have to be garbage just because u dont want it. Why are u all focusing on what they didnt give u, there will be rotation and a new expansion soon! And im sure there will come new game modes soon aswell. Why be so negativ and act like a child?
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There are so many negative comment on this and i cant help but feel that people dont know what they are talking about. People saying that changing 5 cards doesnt make any diffrence. So lets put it to the test! I open the first match with this deck:
Make a deck and explain how u counter this, then i will swap 5 cards in order to recounter that deck.
Umm ,just something to bring up before people get going:
the negativity isn't based on the inability to make sideboards. Most people can see how you can, for example, put in polymorph and perhaps remove counterspell from a mage deck to deal with your deck.
The issues are twofold:
1. Deck variety. Right now what tends to happen is that players will bring 3 good decks, and assume one gets banned, then have to struggle to figure out what to being for that 4th deck. Thus whatever the meta goes with, you'll see at least 4-7 different classes in the tournament with a few from the odd-ball classes as 'that 4th deck'.
So the worry is, what happens when you have to just bring one deck: what stops you from just bringing the current meta molder? Everyone bringing just patron warrior, or everyone bringing druid 6 months ago, or everyone bringing priest, that sort of thing. It sounds much more boring.
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
Sort of like if everyone in the world is hungry and they announced a free food cart, but only in Anchorage, Alaska, USA.
Yay. Great. someone got fed. But what about everyone who doesn't live in Alaska?
So yeha, that's sort of the issue.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Ok, Baka warrior I choose you
1. Well if 1 deck is the absolutely best, which rarely every one can agree on what is, then there will be a counter deck that is good against that deck. Also this counter deck will get a counter deck, so this is 3 diffrent decks for each "best deck choice" + the odd ball decks. On top of this it will take alot of time and testing before this is fully optimized where we will see alot more decks. Following this logic this could turn out to be even better then conquest, which alot of pros didnt think was very good in the first place.
2. Its stupid to use this argument, because some of the player base gets something, doesnt mean the rest of the player base wont get something at a later stage. This isnt a game mode, but the new tournament rules, you cannot compair those. The "big player base" just got nerfs which i think wasnt needed.
First of all i think that match up is pretty even, HSreplay has stats on this that i have attached.
I would go with this version as my counter to your deck:
I think this greedy list with alot of counter cards would make me very favored. Now u can try and recounter me.
This isn’t how decks are chosen guys. Each player chooses one deck and keeps it secret until each has chosen. You can’t just change your deck.
I think it isn't even the best possible counter... If I played even lock my third deck 5 swapped cards would be mechathun package.
I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist. ©Trimutius
At first u choose blind, but then yes u can, after each match u can change deck.
I think that goes way away from what this deck does, its not a control deck if the warrior gets the board at some point u will lose before u have drawn your whole deck. I dont agree on your idea at all, but its a creative though :)
You look at the system like this:
1. Bring deck X
2. Play with deck X
3. Change 5 cards in deck X
But it’s like this:
1. Bring deck X, Y, and Z. Y and Z must only be 5 cards different than X.
2. Play with deck X
3. Choose to play with deck X, Y, or Z
To bring up a topic that isn't given to everyone, and has a unique ability to cause players to "Think" and be "Creative" is in its own right an awesome piece of value. The fact that this rule isn't something that effects every HS player gets, doesn't mean it can't be learned by everyone.
The fact this is a forum these decks aren't real and this isn't a real tournament, it's a concept in learning how and why decks are chosen as well as the tech cards that are brought with. Also if this were to be done in secret we'd have blank posts saying "here's my deck now try and counter it", thus there is some leeway needed in order to establish and portray the concept so people can learn.
My thoughts:
When someone is trying to educate people on how and why things are done there are always those who want to shut them down, whether it be because they want to keep others ignorant or it's their own ignorance. Applaud those who wish to teach, help them do it better and more efficiently. Don't call for them to stop or ridicule them for taking the effort to do so.
After all if your parents and teachers were treated the same way and were not there to teach you, you would most likely not be able to post your disparaging comments here.
“There is divine beauty in learning…. To learn means to accept the postulate that life did not begin at my birth. Others have been here before me, and I walk in their footsteps.” ―Elie Wiesel
Cute, ineffective, but cute.
Yes that is right, u play with 1 deck in three variations. After each match u can switch
I don't believe that your refined list will be more greedy than my Warrior. Your deck have 2 main value generators, Gul'dan and Lich King, while the Warrior deck has Hatchling, Cube, Faceless, Zola, Omega Assembly and Dr. Boom.
But for the sake of argument, I would replace one faceless with Elise for more value. I think that should be more than enough.
I think the matchup is not about the most value, u dont have draw to remove 1-2 threads a turn, and with geist, oozes and nerubians i can disrupt your answers. U will have to react to me the whole game and at some point you have to top deck answers for several turns in a row to win.
I think im so favored with the 2nd list that it would be 65% in my favor. Ofcause this is just theory talking, but iv played both my deck and yours alot.
And taking out faceless would be the last card i would change, that is the card that i really fear the most and can tip the scales.
If i where u i would consider quest, taunts and card draw as my new cards.
To the OP:
I hope you are right on #1. About the counter to a counter to a counter, etc.
To iandakar:
In regards to #2, the good news is that Tournament Mode is included in the game...oh wait... :'(
"There is no spoon"
I mentioned this before but you can also start off with building deck 2 and 3 as 2 different entirely archetypes with complimenting matchups and then make deck 1 as the least bad bridge deck possible. Deck 2 and 3 can have 10 swapped cards which is pretty massive.
I have no way of knowing if this approach is better or worse than starting with an optimized deck and teching it for different matchups with deck 2 and 3 of course.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I like sideboarding a lot
2. What about the rest of us. 99%+ of the playerbase never plays tournaments. They are outside the client and require a good bit of research to learn how to access them. Most won't bother with that. Even if they did, many don't have the time/energy/will to get involved with such things. Thus the idea is that this change doesn't affect most players. This is during a time when many feel a major lack of modes for the game for most players.
I don’t give a crap about tournaments this is garbage
Im not sure u are right with this one, I think 2nd and 3rd has to have 25 of the same cards of the main deck.
It doesnt have to be garbage just because u dont want it. Why are u all focusing on what they didnt give u, there will be rotation and a new expansion soon! And im sure there will come new game modes soon aswell. Why be so negativ and act like a child?