I want to talk a little bit about priests and balance.
I will start with an interesting fact : in GvsG , Shrinkmeister + [card]Cabal Shadow Priest[/card] ( 8 mana ) will steal your Cairne Bloodhoof. If you find this to be true balance, please move on away from this thread.
Presently, the priests are imba due to at least 3 cards :
1 -Thoughtsteal. Fantastically imbalanced, please allow me to compare it to similar cards and also explain why.Thoughtsteal's similar cards are : Mage's Arcane Intellect and Druid's Nourish.
Mage's Arcane intellect : mana 3. Cards Gained in deck : 0 . Cards Lost from deck : 1. Extra cards in hand : 1. Druid's Nourish : mana 5. Cards Gained in deck : 0 . Cards Lost from Deck : 1 . Extra cards in hand : 2. Priest's Thoughtsteal : mana 3. Cards Gained in deck : 2. Cards Lost from Deck : 1. Extra cards in hand 1.
Practically, using 2 arcane intellect = -2 cards in deck. Using 2 thoughtsteal : +2 cards in deck. In a 50-50 chance, those cards are good for something, but one way or another, it's a good advanage.
2 - Cabal Shadow Priest : - 6 mana - gain minion with 4/5 - kill enemy minion with 2/N - gain minion with 2/N.
3 - Mind Control : there is no limit on what you can cast mind control on, and it's value is removing a monster with N and N from the board, and giving you a monster with N and N on the board. Take for example, mind stealing a DeathWing. You kill a monster with 12/12 , you gain a monster with 12/12. Try doing this with one card on any other class.
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night, I am batma I build computer games. Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
Priest is difficult to deal with unless you have burst damage and you can kill it quickly. Also priest is by the most annoying class to play against. Personally I hoped that Blizzard will not release more troll cards, but the Shrinkmeister will make it even more annoying. Let's hope other classes get nice treatment as well and will be able to fight back.
Please correct your combos, you wanted Cabal not the Auchenai.
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night, I am batma I build computer games. Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
cali1982 - agreed about the other cards, however I think that compared to what we've seen from the other cards & from the mage, this doesn't seem that strong... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/imbalanced
goblintechie ( love your nick btw ) - Mind Control as 'Faceless Manipulator + Silence + Assassinate . Yes, but not all the classes have silence at 0 mana. So it's combining a rare card with cards from two different classes, a total of 3 cards for just one. Trying to put 3 faceless manipulators in your deck... :D . All in all, I find it far from having balance. Nice Blizzard, creating a way to make sure my faithful Gruul no longer loves me :( . Also the fact that they can use two of them in a deck.
dwl_ with the exploding sheep, I don't think they'll need the pyromancer combo. There are a ton of ways for priests to stop the attack in the start, and more are being added. And at the higher levels of play, I believe you will more rarely see rush decks.
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I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night, I am batma I build computer games. Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
Anyone remembers when 99% of the community was "absolutely sure" that Shaman would be unbeatable after Naxxramas?
Actually... no, shaman didn't receive a great class card and didn't profit from any of the neutrals in a really great comboy way or something, who did actually think that?
I also remember a lot of people overrating reincarnate by a large margin.
Anyone remembers when 99% of the community was "absolutely sure" that Shaman would be unbeatable after Naxxramas?
Actually... no, shaman didn't receive a great class card and didn't profit from any of the neutrals in a really great comboy way or something, who did actually think that?
It was definitely a thing, I remember. People were fantasizing about HUGE bursts using reincarnation, specifically with Leeroy with reincarnate and ressurection and such. Those combos were amazing, and showed up on Youtube...but they were so impractical to pull off that it really didn't help shaman that much.
Thoughtsteal is decent. You don't cycle trough your deck to get your winning condition faster with this one. Also, you never know what you will get from the RNG.
Mind Control is very expensive. The priest player will be unable to drop anything else or cast his class ability for a full turn. If the priest doesn't already have board control without casting it, it will be tough to get with one single spell. Also, people usually expect that you cast the mind control, and play accordingly.
It's annoying, but not OP.
Cabal Shadow Priest won't help the priest if he or she doesn't already have some board presence. It won't save for big threats either. Also, players might save it in their hand forever expecting a small drop just to never use them.
The combo with Shrinkmeister is dangerous, but again will render the priest powerless on turn 8 unless they already have some board control.
Are you playing on the ladder in the alternative universe or what?
They are in the universe that the "the whole game is aggggrroooooo" posts come from. It seems like no matter the rank everyone seems to be raging over their on separate meta. Though yeah the attitude isn't welcome.
Myself I've also been rather cynical since it seems the only classes that don't get blasted with SEETHING rage is control warrior/druid/paladin and the idea of the only acceptable decks being legendary heavy slow control decks bother me.
(I note, btw, that cards like thoughtsteal and mindcontrol work best against control and not as well against midrange/aggro decks)
As far as shrinkmeister, it is an amazing card, but there IS the issue with hat cards to drop. Dino, you mention sheep but the issue isn't finding an anti-aoe card, again pyro did well on that. the issue is that if you put pryo or sheep, you don't have room for Shrink. It's Shaman's issue essentially. Shrinkmeister makes you more anti-control at the cost of anti-aggro while pryo or sheep (I'd go pryo) leaves the 4 mana cards vulnerable.
Btw, I'm not sure you can deem Priest as OP currently anyway. It's not THE best deck in the ladder and certainly isn't the best deck in tournaments. It's powerful and viable, but that's not what 'OP' means. We need to see it hit top 16 and win in tournaments before we can start declaring it's OPness. OP isn't the deck that beats you. It's the deck you beat everyone with.
Are you playing on the ladder in the alternative universe or what?
They are in the universe that the "the whole game is aggggrroooooo" posts come from. It seems like no matter the rank everyone seems to be raging over their on separate meta. Though yeah the attitude isn't welcome.
Myself I've also been rather cynical since it seems the only classes that don't get blasted with SEETHING rage is control warrior/druid/paladin and the idea of the only acceptable decks being legendary heavy slow control decks bother me.
(I note, btw, that cards like thoughtsteal and mindcontrol work best against control and not as well against midrange/aggro decks)
As far as shrinkmeister, it is an amazing card, but there IS the issue with hat cards to drop. Dino, you mention sheep but the issue isn't finding an anti-aoe card, again pyro did well on that. the issue is that if you put pryo or sheep, you don't have room for Shrink. It's Shaman's issue essentially. Shrinkmeister makes you more anti-control at the cost of anti-aggro while pryo or sheep (I'd go pryo) leaves the 4 mana cards vulnerable.
Btw, I'm not sure you can deem Priest as OP currently anyway. It's not THE best deck in the ladder and certainly isn't the best deck in tournaments. It's powerful and viable, but that's not what 'OP' means. We need to see it hit top 16 and win in tournaments before we can start declaring it's OPness. OP isn't the deck that beats you. It's the deck you beat everyone with.
Well put. This is the most straight-headed comment I've seen this entire post.
The problem with mind control is that it takes all of your mana. Mind controlling a minion is the end of your turn so if you are close to death it might not even help you if your opponent doesn't have a taunt creature or has many other creatures on the board.
The problem with mind control is that it takes all of your mana. Mind controlling a minion is the end of your turn so if you are close to death it might not even help you if your opponent doesn't have a taunt creature or has many other creatures on the board.
That's because mind control isn't meant to be a panic button really. It has two overall purposes.
It's a contesting card. When you are about even and are fighting for control then Mind control turns into a "kill and drop" effect, similar to frost bolt + drop a minion which is how you take over the tempo. Given that using a removal then dropping a minion is a good use of a turn, it's a good use for MC. Priests tend to not just use it for any old card because it's so valuable it's best to save it for key situations.
Anti-victory card. Someone drops their victory condition that didn't win the game yet, like a 5000/4000 hyena or a KT. You nuke it with MC and now it's your win condition.
So the 10 mana really isn't a 'problem' for the card. It just makes sure the card isn't used mindlessly. You SHOULD think carefully about using it and it SHOULDN'T be an easy out when you're deep under pressure. It's there for a purpose and doesn't work well outside it's purpose, like all cards should be.
Myself I've also been rather cynical since it seems the only classes that don't get blasted with SEETHING rage is control warrior/druid/paladin and the idea of the only acceptable decks being legendary heavy slow control decks bother me.
Exactly. Why are we worried about Priest? This is what people should be worried about. Not Priest. Priest is annoying, but it isn't OP. It may not even be in the top 5 best classes. Every class is going to gain advantages from the new cards. Except for possibly hunter as the mechs won't coincide with their beast synergy and the new meta might not be favorable for them like it has been recently. And even then, I'm sure they will have something too. Bit I digress. My point is that we should be worried about the classes and/or deck playstyles that are already strong, not OP but strong, and those getting pushed over the edge by advancements in the new meta. And classes like Druid, Warrior, and Paladin are primed because they are strong yet tend not to be nerfed all that much.
Personally, I think Control Warrior is going to be one of the most dangerous things to face. It's already really strong, and like you said, they almost never nerf it. And because of cards that will benefit them in the new meta, they might be pushed over the top. For example, Bouncing Blade is a card that I think it will be ridiculous. It's already hard to keep any advantage you might get on them because of things like Brawl. With this in the deck as well, there will be no keeping board control against a control warrior. Plus, Bouncing Blades will play off of the rage mechanic which warrior uses so much. And that's just 1 card.
I want to talk a little bit about priests and balance.
I will start with an interesting fact :
in GvsG , Shrinkmeister + [card]Cabal Shadow Priest[/card] ( 8 mana ) will steal your Cairne Bloodhoof.
If you find this to be true balance, please move on away from this thread.
Presently, the priests are imba due to at least 3 cards :
1 -Thoughtsteal.
Fantastically imbalanced, please allow me to compare it to similar cards and also explain why.Thoughtsteal's similar cards are : Mage's Arcane Intellect and Druid's Nourish.
Mage's Arcane intellect : mana 3. Cards Gained in deck : 0 . Cards Lost from deck : 1. Extra cards in hand : 1.
Druid's Nourish : mana 5. Cards Gained in deck : 0 . Cards Lost from Deck : 1 . Extra cards in hand : 2.
Priest's Thoughtsteal : mana 3. Cards Gained in deck : 2. Cards Lost from Deck : 1. Extra cards in hand 1.
Practically, using 2 arcane intellect = -2 cards in deck.
Using 2 thoughtsteal : +2 cards in deck. In a 50-50 chance, those cards are good for something, but one way or another, it's a good advanage.
2 - Cabal Shadow Priest :
- 6 mana - gain minion with 4/5 - kill enemy minion with 2/N - gain minion with 2/N.
3 - Mind Control :
there is no limit on what you can cast mind control on, and it's value is removing a monster with N and N from the board, and giving you a monster with N and N on the board.
Take for example, mind stealing a DeathWing. You kill a monster with 12/12 , you gain a monster with 12/12. Try doing this with one card on any other class.
Your opinion on the matter ?
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night,
I am batmaI build computer games.Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
Minor correction, you are thinking of Cabal Shadow Priest, not Auchenai Soulpriest.
Yes, I think it's pretty damn powerful. Priests are going to kick everyone's ass.
Priest is difficult to deal with unless you have burst damage and you can kill it quickly. Also priest is by the most annoying class to play against. Personally I hoped that Blizzard will not release more troll cards, but the Shrinkmeister will make it even more annoying. Let's hope other classes get nice treatment as well and will be able to fight back.
Please correct your combos, you wanted Cabal not the Auchenai.
Thanks, fixed :)
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night,
I am batmaI build computer games.Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
We didnt see the other class cards so its way to early to tell who is going to be "unbalanced" and who is not.
cali1982 - agreed about the other cards, however I think that compared to what we've seen from the other cards & from the mage, this doesn't seem that strong...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/imbalanced
goblintechie ( love your nick btw ) - Mind Control as 'Faceless Manipulator + Silence + Assassinate . Yes, but not all the classes have silence at 0 mana. So it's combining a rare card with cards from two different classes, a total of 3 cards for just one. Trying to put 3 faceless manipulators in your deck... :D . All in all, I find it far from having balance. Nice Blizzard, creating a way to make sure my faithful Gruul no longer loves me :( . Also the fact that they can use two of them in a deck.
dwl_ with the exploding sheep, I don't think they'll need the pyromancer combo. There are a ton of ways for priests to stop the attack in the start, and more are being added. And at the higher levels of play, I believe you will more rarely see rush decks.
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night,
I am batmaI build computer games.Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
I also remember a lot of people overrating reincarnate by a large margin.
It was definitely a thing, I remember. People were fantasizing about HUGE bursts using reincarnation, specifically with Leeroy with reincarnate and ressurection and such. Those combos were amazing, and showed up on Youtube...but they were so impractical to pull off that it really didn't help shaman that much.
Please show us where the bad Priest touched you on this doll ...
Thoughtsteal is decent. You don't cycle trough your deck to get your winning condition faster with this one. Also, you never know what you will get from the RNG.
Mind Control is very expensive. The priest player will be unable to drop anything else or cast his class ability for a full turn. If the priest doesn't already have board control without casting it, it will be tough to get with one single spell. Also, people usually expect that you cast the mind control, and play accordingly.
It's annoying, but not OP.
Cabal Shadow Priest won't help the priest if he or she doesn't already have some board presence. It won't save for big threats either. Also, players might save it in their hand forever expecting a small drop just to never use them.
The combo with Shrinkmeister is dangerous, but again will render the priest powerless on turn 8 unless they already have some board control.
Shrinkmeister isn't a very good turn 2 drop though, is it? In most situations, I mean. I dunno.
They are in the universe that the "the whole game is aggggrroooooo" posts come from. It seems like no matter the rank everyone seems to be raging over their on separate meta. Though yeah the attitude isn't welcome.
Myself I've also been rather cynical since it seems the only classes that don't get blasted with SEETHING rage is control warrior/druid/paladin and the idea of the only acceptable decks being legendary heavy slow control decks bother me.
(I note, btw, that cards like thoughtsteal and mindcontrol work best against control and not as well against midrange/aggro decks)
As far as shrinkmeister, it is an amazing card, but there IS the issue with hat cards to drop. Dino, you mention sheep but the issue isn't finding an anti-aoe card, again pyro did well on that. the issue is that if you put pryo or sheep, you don't have room for Shrink. It's Shaman's issue essentially. Shrinkmeister makes you more anti-control at the cost of anti-aggro while pryo or sheep (I'd go pryo) leaves the 4 mana cards vulnerable.
Btw, I'm not sure you can deem Priest as OP currently anyway. It's not THE best deck in the ladder and certainly isn't the best deck in tournaments. It's powerful and viable, but that's not what 'OP' means. We need to see it hit top 16 and win in tournaments before we can start declaring it's OPness. OP isn't the deck that beats you. It's the deck you beat everyone with.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Well put. This is the most straight-headed comment I've seen this entire post.
This is statement is false.
The problem with mind control is that it takes all of your mana. Mind controlling a minion is the end of your turn so if you are close to death it might not even help you if your opponent doesn't have a taunt creature or has many other creatures on the board.
At least hunter will be rekt
That's because mind control isn't meant to be a panic button really. It has two overall purposes.
It's a contesting card. When you are about even and are fighting for control then Mind control turns into a "kill and drop" effect, similar to frost bolt + drop a minion which is how you take over the tempo. Given that using a removal then dropping a minion is a good use of a turn, it's a good use for MC. Priests tend to not just use it for any old card because it's so valuable it's best to save it for key situations.
Anti-victory card. Someone drops their victory condition that didn't win the game yet, like a 5000/4000 hyena or a KT. You nuke it with MC and now it's your win condition.
So the 10 mana really isn't a 'problem' for the card. It just makes sure the card isn't used mindlessly. You SHOULD think carefully about using it and it SHOULDN'T be an easy out when you're deep under pressure. It's there for a purpose and doesn't work well outside it's purpose, like all cards should be.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Wait for the 2 mana Squirrel 15/15 with Charge and Windfury. Beast. Hunter only.
dude, SPOILERS!
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
...wait, I thought they got that LAST update...
This is statement is false.
Exactly. Why are we worried about Priest? This is what people should be worried about. Not Priest. Priest is annoying, but it isn't OP. It may not even be in the top 5 best classes. Every class is going to gain advantages from the new cards. Except for possibly hunter as the mechs won't coincide with their beast synergy and the new meta might not be favorable for them like it has been recently. And even then, I'm sure they will have something too. Bit I digress. My point is that we should be worried about the classes and/or deck playstyles that are already strong, not OP but strong, and those getting pushed over the edge by advancements in the new meta. And classes like Druid, Warrior, and Paladin are primed because they are strong yet tend not to be nerfed all that much.
Personally, I think Control Warrior is going to be one of the most dangerous things to face. It's already really strong, and like you said, they almost never nerf it. And because of cards that will benefit them in the new meta, they might be pushed over the top. For example, Bouncing Blade is a card that I think it will be ridiculous. It's already hard to keep any advantage you might get on them because of things like Brawl. With this in the deck as well, there will be no keeping board control against a control warrior. Plus, Bouncing Blades will play off of the rage mechanic which warrior uses so much. And that's just 1 card.