Maybe people are sometimes overreacting to the Emperor at the moment? I mean if someone 'throws away' removal that might actually be worse than letting him live for a 2nd turn? It might be wrongfully adding to his perceived strength?
Granted I haven't seen him in Handlock yet, for some reason no streamers seem to play handlock at the moment. I can definitely see that handlock might be THE deck for him just for making Jaraxxus+other stuff being playable in the same turn.
I've seen lots of games where he was played though and in none of them he really seemed to turn the game around and many times the person getting him down first didn't actually win sometimes even if he stayed for 2-3 turns.
Yes, that is arguably even just as much important. He is like Sylvannas in many cases, who gets you often 'hidden' value even when she doesn't steal anything, just because your opponent has to make inefficient plays to deal with her or can't use his mana to play big minions. Emperor has an even stronger impact, since he needs to be dealt with ASAP, so he'll often force your opponent to leave 'building board presence / control' behind and use resources to get rid of him. Despite that he also brings you guaranteed value, since he triggers at the end of your turn at least once. (Assuming you have a card in your hand) If you look at the card, you have to consider this, since the effect is only half of what makes him good.
This, the biggest concern for me is that he doesn't need to create value in order to "create value," because if Emporer lives for another turn you've likely won the game by snow balling, so he's a 6 mana, 5/5 Taunt with a Battle Cry at a minimum. I think too many people only think about what the Emperor does for them instead of what their opponent perceives it does for them, the bull's eye on this card is very real.
I watched multiple tournament games to see how ET performs. From what I have seen, when you played the card early, you get good value from it (3 to 5 mana) and maybe 1or 2 powerful tempo plays. However, there are also multiple matches where it is drawn late and just sat dead in player's hand cause the board pressure is too much.
How does freeze mage lose a game? It seems to me that there are 2 scenarios:
The Freeze mage gets overrun and don't get the right combos of stall/removal and can't keep up with heals/blocks. I don't see the Emperor really helping that much here, he is a very slow play which will probably result in the mage taking way too much damage.
A warrior armours up forever, here speeding up the big combo turns and/or getting way too many fireballs from Antonidas might actually be what gives the mage a fighting chance. Or is the mage even the favorite in this match up now?
Apart from this I don't see Thaurissan helping that much. Sure it will seem über gross when the Mage makes the big killing combo even worse but most of the time the opponent would have been dead anyway so it will only be his feels that smashed - not the game balance.
I think Emperor Thaurissan is not only a great addition to Ancient Mage OTK variation of Freeze Mage but also helpful in general Freeze Mage. Reducing mana costs of cards like Ice Block or Frost Nova is more helpful than you would expect because Freeze Mage faces a lot of "I can set lethal next turn but can't survive if I do so" situation. he has great synergy with Antonidas. Ability to play Alexstrasza and Frost Nova at the same turn is also a game winning move. You mentioned his synergy with Archmage Antonidas, but I think you're underestimating the benefit of having 1 mana Frostbolt and 0 mana Ice Lance. It means you can have 2 more Fireball with Archmage Antonidas. I was able to grab a win from a Control Warrior by going turn 6 Emperor Thaurissan, turn 7 Archmage Antonidas, The Coin, 2 Frostbolt, 2 Ice Lance. It's a rare scenario but Freeze Mage has a lot of dead turns floating around anyway (the only other turn 6 play was to pin face =/). Adding him makes the game much more flexible.
well the card itself isn't going to win you games in 2-3 turns that for sure, it basically allows ur deck to curve higher in general and let's ur play combos u've never thought of before, also it just adds a new level of complexity to games where he IS played out because now ur opponent may have to play around a whole bunch of new scenarios and they may make subpar plays after seeing the emporor. So yes it has its weaknesses but definitely a meta changing card in my opinion.
The card is fantastic in certain decks, mostly control, handlock, mill, or draw-heavy ones. Like any card, there are better and worse times to play him.
ETS effect is immediate, accumulating, percieved, and warranted. He doesn't fit into every build, but every deck can be built to use him if you wished.
Immediate: Deal with him now or risk snowball.
Accumulating: Acolyte of pain, Ancient of Lore, Divine Favor.. these cards become pure ammunition.
Perceived: While not as relevant pre-legend rank, the amount of possibilities you need to consider from your opponent grows exponentially.
Warranted: If they're playing ET in their build, it's because they are set up to use him.
If we compare his effect to Loatheb "I'll simply not use an unnecessary spell this turn" effect, ET is superior as he has already purchased his removal from a smart opponent, and given a mana advantage to the controller. If we compare him to Dr. Boom, he CAN be superior as BGH is not an option, and very few spells hit the 5 damage mark. He creates combos in many builds that were otherwise impossible: just yesterday I put charge on Alex and and OTKd from nowhere. Today I'm going to see if I can't taskmaster a Grommash and then recombobulate him for the heckuvit.
Those who underestimate ET will die to something else and never realize that ET made it happen.
ET is OP IMO, Yes he doesn't work well with aggro decks but leaving him on board for two or more turns is basically suicide. Mana reduction is never irrelevent. He makes succeeding turns unpredictable, instances that will enable a player to cast multiple minions/spell combination that is impossible to cast on the current turn he's on is not unlikelly. Even if his cost reduction effect is a bcry effect I think he'll still see play.
He's not an auto-include like many people pegged him for when he was introduced. He's still damn powerful in the right deck (finding a particularly delicious niche in my ramp deck), but he's not op'd.
A card that gives you 1 additional mana off each of your cards in your hand is amazing. IMO its an auto-include in all control decks with high cost cards rotting away because you can only play 1-2 of them per turn. Want to play those two high threats, but need 11 mana? No problem! Wanna play Jaraxxus AND cast your hero power on the drop? No problem! Its not OP because its got conditions, you need the shit in your hand to be reduced.
I deem this card: slightly unbalanced compared to other legends, but acceptable.
This is true and i think you need to test him more. There have been times i have drew him and have had nothing but 3-4 drops in my hand. Sometimes my hand was empty and other times i found no need to play him over say DR. Balanced because i didn't have time for his ramp effect. Because of this he is balanced and needs a certain situation to be filled in order for the value to actually be worth it. Compared to DR. B as an auto-include for control.
Though i love the card because too many times i have recently been able to make it work really well in decks with clogged hands like stall priest and my ramp druid. I am working on fitting him in my Demon-lock but i'd need to take out either my BK or Sylvannas and im not fond of losing either for him since they are usually more consistent.
I get what you are saying (in general) but I beg to differ... You seriously have to step back and think of it much more simply.
You get a huge return the moment you play ET in the case that you will have >5 cards left in your hand after playing it. Double the cost if he lives through the next turn, which is highly doubted...
You can't just assume you are going to be playing legendary after legendary. Games are won alot of the times with spells as well (hence combo rogue and all that jazz).
**** I apologize for bringing up an old topic... didn't see the date... ;_;
He's probably the 2nd most OP card only next to Boom. 6 mana for a 5/5 body that often becomes free anyway if I have 6+ cards in my hand. He is also prime silence/removal bait, I have even seen druids blow their FON just to kill Emperor. He even enables OTK builds, Grim Warrior in particular which is a huge problem.
It doesent affect the board like sylvanas or have the survival of a cairne, but it will give you value if:
You go control decks and have more then 5 ( not to mention 9) cards in hand.
It allows dragons like nafarian and ysara to be played easier, get them quicker them mc and enable a hero power or naf spells.
Iy allows great combos. Reduce syl for 1 and you can play it with brawl.
It is the backbone of quiet a few deckse like malylock, velen priest and more.
So, whats your point? Its not OP, like every card it doesnt fit to every deck and every situation. The only card with that honor is dr. Balance, and therefore will be nerfed.
without ET aggro would utterly destroy whats left of the meta. at least with ET combo and tempo decks have a chance against aggro and control. it is a very good card and a necessity at this point and absolutely should not be nerfed.
At any rate, ET has been in the meta long enough that no one would argue otherwise this thread can pry get put to bed.
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This, the biggest concern for me is that he doesn't need to create value in order to "create value," because if Emporer lives for another turn you've likely won the game by snow balling, so he's a 6 mana, 5/5 Taunt with a Battle Cry at a minimum. I think too many people only think about what the Emperor does for them instead of what their opponent perceives it does for them, the bull's eye on this card is very real.
I watched multiple tournament games to see how ET performs. From what I have seen, when you played the card early, you get good value from it (3 to 5 mana) and maybe 1or 2 powerful tempo plays. However, there are also multiple matches where it is drawn late and just sat dead in player's hand cause the board pressure is too much.
I think Emperor Thaurissan is not only a great addition to Ancient Mage OTK variation of Freeze Mage but also helpful in general Freeze Mage. Reducing mana costs of cards like Ice Block or Frost Nova is more helpful than you would expect because Freeze Mage faces a lot of "I can set lethal next turn but can't survive if I do so" situation. he has great synergy with Antonidas. Ability to play Alexstrasza and Frost Nova at the same turn is also a game winning move. You mentioned his synergy with Archmage Antonidas, but I think you're underestimating the benefit of having 1 mana Frostbolt and 0 mana Ice Lance. It means you can have 2 more Fireball with Archmage Antonidas. I was able to grab a win from a Control Warrior by going turn 6 Emperor Thaurissan, turn 7 Archmage Antonidas, The Coin, 2 Frostbolt, 2 Ice Lance. It's a rare scenario but Freeze Mage has a lot of dead turns floating around anyway (the only other turn 6 play was to pin face =/). Adding him makes the game much more flexible.
Meta changes the moment you switch your deck.
well the card itself isn't going to win you games in 2-3 turns that for sure, it basically allows ur deck to curve higher in general and let's ur play combos u've never thought of before, also it just adds a new level of complexity to games where he IS played out because now ur opponent may have to play around a whole bunch of new scenarios and they may make subpar plays after seeing the emporor. So yes it has its weaknesses but definitely a meta changing card in my opinion.
^lol this guy! this guy! what if someone thought you were serious. shame on you.
If you can't beat them, join them
The card is fantastic in certain decks, mostly control, handlock, mill, or draw-heavy ones. Like any card, there are better and worse times to play him.
ETS effect is immediate, accumulating, percieved, and warranted. He doesn't fit into every build, but every deck can be built to use him if you wished.
Immediate: Deal with him now or risk snowball.
Accumulating: Acolyte of pain, Ancient of Lore, Divine Favor.. these cards become pure ammunition.
Perceived: While not as relevant pre-legend rank, the amount of possibilities you need to consider from your opponent grows exponentially.
Warranted: If they're playing ET in their build, it's because they are set up to use him.
If we compare his effect to Loatheb "I'll simply not use an unnecessary spell this turn" effect, ET is superior as he has already purchased his removal from a smart opponent, and given a mana advantage to the controller. If we compare him to Dr. Boom, he CAN be superior as BGH is not an option, and very few spells hit the 5 damage mark. He creates combos in many builds that were otherwise impossible: just yesterday I put charge on Alex and and OTKd from nowhere. Today I'm going to see if I can't taskmaster a Grommash and then recombobulate him for the heckuvit.
Those who underestimate ET will die to something else and never realize that ET made it happen.
ET is OP IMO, Yes he doesn't work well with aggro decks but leaving him on board for two or more turns is basically suicide. Mana reduction is never irrelevent. He makes succeeding turns unpredictable, instances that will enable a player to cast multiple minions/spell combination that is impossible to cast on the current turn he's on is not unlikelly. Even if his cost reduction effect is a bcry effect I think he'll still see play.
That Dark Iron Skulker value!
He's not an auto-include like many people pegged him for when he was introduced. He's still damn powerful in the right deck (finding a particularly delicious niche in my ramp deck), but he's not op'd.
A card that gives you 1 additional mana off each of your cards in your hand is amazing. IMO its an auto-include in all control decks with high cost cards rotting away because you can only play 1-2 of them per turn. Want to play those two high threats, but need 11 mana? No problem! Wanna play Jaraxxus AND cast your hero power on the drop? No problem! Its not OP because its got conditions, you need the shit in your hand to be reduced.
I deem this card: slightly unbalanced compared to other legends, but acceptable.
This is true and i think you need to test him more. There have been times i have drew him and have had nothing but 3-4 drops in my hand. Sometimes my hand was empty and other times i found no need to play him over say DR. Balanced because i didn't have time for his ramp effect. Because of this he is balanced and needs a certain situation to be filled in order for the value to actually be worth it. Compared to DR. B as an auto-include for control.
Though i love the card because too many times i have recently been able to make it work really well in decks with clogged hands like stall priest and my ramp druid. I am working on fitting him in my Demon-lock but i'd need to take out either my BK or Sylvannas and im not fond of losing either for him since they are usually more consistent.
I get what you are saying (in general) but I beg to differ... You seriously have to step back and think of it much more simply.
You get a huge return the moment you play ET in the case that you will have >5 cards left in your hand after playing it. Double the cost if he lives through the next turn, which is highly doubted...
You can't just assume you are going to be playing legendary after legendary. Games are won alot of the times with spells as well (hence combo rogue and all that jazz).
**** I apologize for bringing up an old topic... didn't see the date... ;_;
When you play six of them in one game and you have a free antonidas, it's pretty good.
He's probably the 2nd most OP card only next to Boom. 6 mana for a 5/5 body that often becomes free anyway if I have 6+ cards in my hand. He is also prime silence/removal bait, I have even seen druids blow their FON just to kill Emperor. He even enables OTK builds, Grim Warrior in particular which is a huge problem.
Well it is not op, just good value in most decks.
It doesent affect the board like sylvanas or have the survival of a cairne, but it will give you value if:
You go control decks and have more then 5 ( not to mention 9) cards in hand.
It allows dragons like nafarian and ysara to be played easier, get them quicker them mc and enable a hero power or naf spells.
Iy allows great combos. Reduce syl for 1 and you can play it with brawl.
It is the backbone of quiet a few deckse like malylock, velen priest and more.
So, whats your point? Its not OP, like every card it doesnt fit to every deck and every situation. The only card with that honor is dr. Balance, and therefore will be nerfed.
without ET aggro would utterly destroy whats left of the meta. at least with ET combo and tempo decks have a chance against aggro and control. it is a very good card and a necessity at this point and absolutely should not be nerfed.
At any rate, ET has been in the meta long enough that no one would argue otherwise this thread can pry get put to bed.
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