If druid had a Shadowflame style card Malorne would be incredible. that's all I'll add to this discussion besides absolutely loving the intro animation
I think the key part of what a lot of folks are saying is "in this meta" and "in current decks". Malorne could be a great card but it just doesn't fit the objectives that people have in mind whilst playing Druid. I personally have a few things that I want to experiment with when I get closer to a full GvG set that he might work in. However at the moment people just haven't figured out how to use him yet.
Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue.
Thanks for the insightful and complex look at the card. It's clear you are a progressive deckbuilder who helps shape the meta on a daily basis.
/sarcasm off
It's a big threat who may make people misplay (Over value the deathrattle and silence it) and/or trade 2/3 for one; even if it doesn't ever get drawn again it can be good. Any deck that has a longer gameplan could use this card. You don't need to play this multiple times to get value. It doesn't need to prevent fatigue damage to get value. all it needs to do is be a lategame threat. Clearly it's not an amazing card or it would have broken into the meta already; however it is still a card that can be valuable. There are not many new archetypes yet after GvG and that seemed to be one of the main mission statements of the set. Someone will figure out a use for this card. We just don't have a deck design that it works in at the moment.
War Golem is also a big threat that can trade 2/3 for 1, does anyone run War Golem? The reason Malorne is useless is because you NEVER want to draw him. He does nothing for you, he has as much impact as a War Golem, he is a vanilla body and the only vanilla body Druids have ever run is Yeti. If you actually had a valid argument as to why Malorne would be good, then maybe I'd let up a little. But you've just been repeating the same thing. Get off your pedestal.
I think he's a fine alternative to the late-game Druid staples, but not an auto-include. But if you have Malorne and don't have Dr. Boom, or Cenarius, or Ragnaros, or fill-in-the-blank card that you might be tempted to include, he makes an able substitute for any of them.
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"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
I think the key part of what a lot of folks are saying is "in this meta" and "in current decks". Malorne could be a great card but it just doesn't fit the objectives that people have in mind whilst playing Druid. I personally have a few things that I want to experiment with when I get closer to a full GvG set that he might work in. However at the moment people just haven't figured out how to use him yet.
Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue.
Thanks for the insightful and complex look at the card. It's clear you are a progressive deckbuilder who helps shape the meta on a daily basis.
/sarcasm off
It's a big threat who may make people misplay (Over value the deathrattle and silence it) and/or trade 2/3 for one; even if it doesn't ever get drawn again it can be good. Any deck that has a longer gameplan could use this card. You don't need to play this multiple times to get value. It doesn't need to prevent fatigue damage to get value. all it needs to do is be a lategame threat. Clearly it's not an amazing card or it would have broken into the meta already; however it is still a card that can be valuable. There are not many new archetypes yet after GvG and that seemed to be one of the main mission statements of the set. Someone will figure out a use for this card. We just don't have a deck design that it works in at the moment.
War Golem is also a big threat that can trade 2/3 for 1, does anyone run War Golem? The reason Malorne is useless is because you NEVER want to draw him. He does nothing for you, he has as much impact as a War Golem, he is a vanilla body and the only vanilla body Druids have ever run is Yeti. If you actually had a valid argument as to why Malorne would be good, then maybe I'd let up a little. But you've just been repeating the same thing. Get off your pedestal.
Really, pedestal? What part of my posts sound like I think I'm better than you? I'm just saying to keep an open mind because there may be new decks to come that don't mind the slowness of Malorne.
You're right that Malorne has similar value to a War Golem and War Golem isnt run but it is an even bigger threat than War Golem and has the silver lining of possibly coming back. This may feel worthless right now because of the decks that Druids run but we aren't limited to only those decks. If someone creates the right control deck that utilizes Tree of Life to stall, or a mill deck that needs a big threat that can withstand the removal that the opponent will undoubtedly have in hand due to all the draws, or a Beast deck that takes advantage of Druid of the Fang then maybe we will see Malorne shine.
My point is simply that we can't know that "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." That is when his value will become the most obvious. That is when he can be stuck in just about any deck and be valuable. Right now, all we know is that he is mediocre (at best, maybe terrible) in current decks. He either needs a major shift in the meta (like you say) or a totally new deck (which you dismiss as impossible) to get to a point where he is worth it.
I'm sorry if my attempt at humor was offensive. I was just trying to point out that the game still has a lot more growing to do after this expansion and you are acting like you know exactly what can and can't be in the upcoming meta. There are going to be a lot of cards that see rises and falls in popularity over the coming months and this may well be one of them. Malygos was a card that everyone said was useless for a long time and then dominated a few tournaments for like 3 weeks because the right Druid and Rogue decks were created to make him viable. Now he is useless again.
Except I just lost a game to him from full health against a Shaman deck which used Ancestor's Call (another "useless" card by most accounts) to get him out followed by double Lightning Bolt and double Frost Shock(first time I've ever even seen it played) and finished me off with a Lava Burst (a card which was also mocked as terrible for a long time). And if youre doing the math, thats more than 10 mana. Because he got one of those Frost Shock from a Far Cry (who even plays that?) earlier in the game. Clearly a lot of those cards that I just mentioned are still pretty terrible but this guy built a deck that made them look pretty good.
Yep, the only thing holding this card back is there are better cards at a similar cost. Its a good card, if you don't have other legends and you do have this one, might as well play it. It is by no means a bad card.
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I think the key part of what a lot of folks are saying is "in this meta" and "in current decks". Malorne could be a great card but it just doesn't fit the objectives that people have in mind whilst playing Druid. I personally have a few things that I want to experiment with when I get closer to a full GvG set that he might work in. However at the moment people just haven't figured out how to use him yet.
Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue.
Thanks for the insightful and complex look at the card. It's clear you are a progressive deckbuilder who helps shape the meta on a daily basis.
/sarcasm off
It's a big threat who may make people misplay (Over value the deathrattle and silence it) and/or trade 2/3 for one; even if it doesn't ever get drawn again it can be good. Any deck that has a longer gameplan could use this card. You don't need to play this multiple times to get value. It doesn't need to prevent fatigue damage to get value. all it needs to do is be a lategame threat. Clearly it's not an amazing card or it would have broken into the meta already; however it is still a card that can be valuable. There are not many new archetypes yet after GvG and that seemed to be one of the main mission statements of the set. Someone will figure out a use for this card. We just don't have a deck design that it works in at the moment.
War Golem is also a big threat that can trade 2/3 for 1, does anyone run War Golem? The reason Malorne is useless is because you NEVER want to draw him. He does nothing for you, he has as much impact as a War Golem, he is a vanilla body and the only vanilla body Druids have ever run is Yeti. If you actually had a valid argument as to why Malorne would be good, then maybe I'd let up a little. But you've just been repeating the same thing. Get off your pedestal.
Really, pedestal? What part of my posts sound like I think I'm better than you? I'm just saying to keep an open mind because there may be new decks to come that don't mind the slowness of Malorne.
You're right that Malorne has similar value to a War Golem and War Golem isnt run but it is an even bigger threat than War Golem and has the silver lining of possibly coming back. This may feel worthless right now because of the decks that Druids run but we aren't limited to only those decks. If someone creates the right control deck that utilizes Tree of Life to stall, or a mill deck that needs a big threat that can withstand the removal that the opponent will undoubtedly have in hand due to all the draws, or a Beast deck that takes advantage of Druid of the Fang then maybe we will see Malorne shine.
My point is simply that we can't know that "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." That is when his value will become the most obvious. That is when he can be stuck in just about any deck and be valuable. Right now, all we know is that he is mediocre (at best, maybe terrible) in current decks. He either needs a major shift in the meta (like you say) or a totally new deck (which you dismiss as impossible) to get to a point where he is worth it.
I'm sorry if my attempt at humor was offensive. I was just trying to point out that the game still has a lot more growing to do after this expansion and you are acting like you know exactly what can and can't be in the upcoming meta. There are going to be a lot of cards that see rises and falls in popularity over the coming months and this may well be one of them. Malygos was a card that everyone said was useless for a long time and then dominated a few tournaments for like 3 weeks because the right Druid and Rogue decks were created to make him viable. Now he is useless again.
Except I just lost a game to him from full health against a Shaman deck which used Ancestor's Call (another "useless" card by most accounts) to get him out followed by double Lightning Bolt and double Frost Shock(first time I've ever even seen it played) and finished me off with a Lava Burst (a card which was also mocked as terrible for a long time). And if youre doing the math, thats more than 10 mana. Because he got one of those Frost Shock from a Far Cry (who even plays that?) earlier in the game. Clearly a lot of those cards that I just mentioned are still pretty terrible but this guy built a deck that made them look pretty good.
Except I can predict exactly when Malorne sees play. Until his Deathrattle useful, he is a War Golem with 2 more attack. War Golem is considered bad because it does not meet the formula for stat value distribution., 2x mana cost +1. A value vanilla body at 7 mana would have 7x2+1 worth of stats or,15 stats. Malorne has 16 worth of stats (this equation does not apply to most Legendaries notably because they have some other effect, however Malorne is basically a vanilla body), one point above normal vanilla value, however, attack becomes negligible at anything more than 6. Reasons why Core Hound like cards are seen as bad. If Dr. Boom was nerfed to 6 attack, that would be a BUFF because he now avoids BGH and still trades with most drops. Claiming that Malorne could be good just because of his stats is silly, his effect is what makes him. Which goes back to my original comment "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." Here is where I am willing to concede a point, I did not include a point to acknowledge new possible decks that might force the game into fatigue to be able to utilize Malorne, however when you look at the post I was responding to, you were talking about meta shifts, then transitioned into talking about possible decks.
So let me amend my statement, "Malorne will never fit in a deck unless that deck makes most games go into fatigue."
I think the key part of what a lot of folks are saying is "in this meta" and "in current decks". Malorne could be a great card but it just doesn't fit the objectives that people have in mind whilst playing Druid. I personally have a few things that I want to experiment with when I get closer to a full GvG set that he might work in. However at the moment people just haven't figured out how to use him yet.
Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue.
Thanks for the insightful and complex look at the card. It's clear you are a progressive deckbuilder who helps shape the meta on a daily basis.
/sarcasm off
It's a big threat who may make people misplay (Over value the deathrattle and silence it) and/or trade 2/3 for one; even if it doesn't ever get drawn again it can be good. Any deck that has a longer gameplan could use this card. You don't need to play this multiple times to get value. It doesn't need to prevent fatigue damage to get value. all it needs to do is be a lategame threat. Clearly it's not an amazing card or it would have broken into the meta already; however it is still a card that can be valuable. There are not many new archetypes yet after GvG and that seemed to be one of the main mission statements of the set. Someone will figure out a use for this card. We just don't have a deck design that it works in at the moment.
War Golem is also a big threat that can trade 2/3 for 1, does anyone run War Golem? The reason Malorne is useless is because you NEVER want to draw him. He does nothing for you, he has as much impact as a War Golem, he is a vanilla body and the only vanilla body Druids have ever run is Yeti. If you actually had a valid argument as to why Malorne would be good, then maybe I'd let up a little. But you've just been repeating the same thing. Get off your pedestal.
Really, pedestal? What part of my posts sound like I think I'm better than you? I'm just saying to keep an open mind because there may be new decks to come that don't mind the slowness of Malorne.
You're right that Malorne has similar value to a War Golem and War Golem isnt run but it is an even bigger threat than War Golem and has the silver lining of possibly coming back. This may feel worthless right now because of the decks that Druids run but we aren't limited to only those decks. If someone creates the right control deck that utilizes Tree of Life to stall, or a mill deck that needs a big threat that can withstand the removal that the opponent will undoubtedly have in hand due to all the draws, or a Beast deck that takes advantage of Druid of the Fang then maybe we will see Malorne shine.
My point is simply that we can't know that "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." That is when his value will become the most obvious. That is when he can be stuck in just about any deck and be valuable. Right now, all we know is that he is mediocre (at best, maybe terrible) in current decks. He either needs a major shift in the meta (like you say) or a totally new deck (which you dismiss as impossible) to get to a point where he is worth it.
I'm sorry if my attempt at humor was offensive. I was just trying to point out that the game still has a lot more growing to do after this expansion and you are acting like you know exactly what can and can't be in the upcoming meta. There are going to be a lot of cards that see rises and falls in popularity over the coming months and this may well be one of them. Malygos was a card that everyone said was useless for a long time and then dominated a few tournaments for like 3 weeks because the right Druid and Rogue decks were created to make him viable. Now he is useless again.
Except I just lost a game to him from full health against a Shaman deck which used Ancestor's Call (another "useless" card by most accounts) to get him out followed by double Lightning Bolt and double Frost Shock(first time I've ever even seen it played) and finished me off with a Lava Burst (a card which was also mocked as terrible for a long time). And if youre doing the math, thats more than 10 mana. Because he got one of those Frost Shock from a Far Cry (who even plays that?) earlier in the game. Clearly a lot of those cards that I just mentioned are still pretty terrible but this guy built a deck that made them look pretty good.
Except I can predict exactly when Malorne sees play. Until his Deathrattle useful, he is a War Golem with 2 more attack. War Golem is considered bad because it does not meet the formula for stat value distribution., 2x mana cost +1. A value vanilla body at 7 mana would have 7x2+1 worth of stats or,15 stats. Malorne has 16 worth of stats (this equation does not apply to most Legendaries notably because they have some other effect, however Malorne is basically a vanilla body), one point above normal vanilla value, however, attack becomes negligible at anything more than 6. Reasons why Core Hound like cards are seen as bad. If Dr. Boom was nerfed to 6 attack, that would be a BUFF because he now avoids BGH and still trades with most drops. Claiming that Malorne could be good just because of his stats is silly, his effect is what makes him. Which goes back to my original comment "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." Here is where I am willing to concede a point, I did not include a point to acknowledge new possible decks that might force the game into fatigue to be able to utilize Malorne, however when you look at the post I was responding to, you were talking about meta shifts, then transitioned into talking about possible decks.
So let me amend my statement, "Malorne will never fit in a deck unless that deck makes most games go into fatigue."
So.... What I said from the beginning? It doesn't fit in any current decks but could succeed in a deck built around it. That was my entire point.
I run a mill deck that does well vs control with him and tree of life.
Ofc, it is a Mill deck. It auto loses to aggro... so it kinda sux in the current meta (and will forever unless blizzard realizes what to actually nerf... rip buzzard u didnt deserve it).
I don't see it being run in the current really competitive druids, but in mill, i won several games with him (legend eu, so not scrubbing at rank 15 with a mill druid). The main issue is that Mill again, is autolosing to aggro, rip ranks.
He's great when he pops up when playing Hunter (when played after Tundra Rhino) or Mage (as a 4 drop), but Dr Boom would be by far a better 7 drop in Druid.
I'm running an unusually greedy ramp build (~rank 3 this season, went legendary in the past with more dedicated play) and would love to have Malorne to experiment with in my deck - possibly even over Dr. Boom.
I have enough ramp, taunts and heal that many games go to long periods of relative stability (each side playing/countering/waiting to draw threats in turn) - occasionally even peaking out at fatigue against other control decks (often with me on the losing side with 4 Ancient of Lore draws - particularly if I counter their draw power (e.g. control warrior acolytes) well). My strategy to have enough big threats to simply blow through their removal and still keep going has become more difficult since GvG though. For these reasons, I suspect Malorne would perform very well in my deck. There is bit of tempo loss, but he is a completely expendable way to test/force removal or take out a giant. He is a scaling control card (the slower the game, the more big threats I am able to drop) and this single added card also provides my deck with fatigue insurance, forcing my opponent to play beatdown, no matter how ill-suited his deck is to the task.
You can of course lose most of these advantages by the opponent silencing him before death, but aside from mind control shennenigans, this means that your expendable card suddenly pulled 2 removals and that your opponent wasted whatever tempo advantage you might have given him.
I am not hugely concerned with his tempo loss against aggro. I have plenty of other cards to make me favored in a zoo or hunter matchup and they are bad enough at dealing with big bodies that even a slow play like Sylvanas often makes for a very defining board presence. My main concern is against midrange tempo decks, such as mech mage and some paladins, but I think this would be small enough compared to the massive benefit vs. control (particularly warriors).
I am confused about Malorne. I really wish there was a graveyard in HS and that you could be able to fetch him back for like 3 mana, then replay him for 7.
As most druid decks work now, you want to filter to get combo pieces, not to get Malorne again. That mainly for ladder though.
Maybe he will see tournament play in decks that aim at the long game.
As most druid decks work now, you want to filter to get combo pieces, not to get Malorne again.
I don't understand how the roaring tree combo came to be the norm in most ramp druids again. It's great in aggro-midrange but for control, I feel like I'm giving up way too much control and long-term power by going for that approach. This means I'm giving up burst potential which does suck against handlock (among a few others), but that a bit of burst is far from enough to make the matchup favored anyhow and the more greedy approach is squishing most mainstream ramp druids I run into these days.
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Deathrattle: Shuffle this minion into your deck.
Add a random minion to your hand. It costs (3) less.
You might be right. It might reset on death and then shuffle. But it's Hearthstone, so there is no such thing as phases and general rules.
I really want Pirates to be a playable theme.
If druid had a Shadowflame style card Malorne would be incredible. that's all I'll add to this discussion besides absolutely loving the intro animation
War Golem is also a big threat that can trade 2/3 for 1, does anyone run War Golem? The reason Malorne is useless is because you NEVER want to draw him. He does nothing for you, he has as much impact as a War Golem, he is a vanilla body and the only vanilla body Druids have ever run is Yeti. If you actually had a valid argument as to why Malorne would be good, then maybe I'd let up a little. But you've just been repeating the same thing. Get off your pedestal.
I've got plenty of love forMalorne when my Webspinner craps it out when I'm doing my hunter dailies.
If only I could say the same for Mal'Ganis and Bane of Doom. D:
I really want to make an 'outlast druid' with him and Tree of Life, but can't
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I think he's a fine alternative to the late-game Druid staples, but not an auto-include. But if you have Malorne and don't have Dr. Boom, or Cenarius, or Ragnaros, or fill-in-the-blank card that you might be tempted to include, he makes an able substitute for any of them.
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
Really, pedestal? What part of my posts sound like I think I'm better than you? I'm just saying to keep an open mind because there may be new decks to come that don't mind the slowness of Malorne.
You're right that Malorne has similar value to a War Golem and War Golem isnt run but it is an even bigger threat than War Golem and has the silver lining of possibly coming back. This may feel worthless right now because of the decks that Druids run but we aren't limited to only those decks. If someone creates the right control deck that utilizes Tree of Life to stall, or a mill deck that needs a big threat that can withstand the removal that the opponent will undoubtedly have in hand due to all the draws, or a Beast deck that takes advantage of Druid of the Fang then maybe we will see Malorne shine.
My point is simply that we can't know that "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." That is when his value will become the most obvious. That is when he can be stuck in just about any deck and be valuable. Right now, all we know is that he is mediocre (at best, maybe terrible) in current decks. He either needs a major shift in the meta (like you say) or a totally new deck (which you dismiss as impossible) to get to a point where he is worth it.
I'm sorry if my attempt at humor was offensive. I was just trying to point out that the game still has a lot more growing to do after this expansion and you are acting like you know exactly what can and can't be in the upcoming meta. There are going to be a lot of cards that see rises and falls in popularity over the coming months and this may well be one of them. Malygos was a card that everyone said was useless for a long time and then dominated a few tournaments for like 3 weeks because the right Druid and Rogue decks were created to make him viable. Now he is useless again.
Except I just lost a game to him from full health against a Shaman deck which used Ancestor's Call (another "useless" card by most accounts) to get him out followed by double Lightning Bolt and double Frost Shock(first time I've ever even seen it played) and finished me off with a Lava Burst (a card which was also mocked as terrible for a long time). And if youre doing the math, thats more than 10 mana. Because he got one of those Frost Shock from a Far Cry (who even plays that?) earlier in the game. Clearly a lot of those cards that I just mentioned are still pretty terrible but this guy built a deck that made them look pretty good.
Yep, the only thing holding this card back is there are better cards at a similar cost. Its a good card, if you don't have other legends and you do have this one, might as well play it. It is by no means a bad card.
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Except I can predict exactly when Malorne sees play. Until his Deathrattle useful, he is a War Golem with 2 more attack. War Golem is considered bad because it does not meet the formula for stat value distribution., 2x mana cost +1. A value vanilla body at 7 mana would have 7x2+1 worth of stats or,15 stats. Malorne has 16 worth of stats (this equation does not apply to most Legendaries notably because they have some other effect, however Malorne is basically a vanilla body), one point above normal vanilla value, however, attack becomes negligible at anything more than 6. Reasons why Core Hound like cards are seen as bad. If Dr. Boom was nerfed to 6 attack, that would be a BUFF because he now avoids BGH and still trades with most drops. Claiming that Malorne could be good just because of his stats is silly, his effect is what makes him. Which goes back to my original comment "Malorne will never fit in any meta until most games go into fatigue." Here is where I am willing to concede a point, I did not include a point to acknowledge new possible decks that might force the game into fatigue to be able to utilize Malorne, however when you look at the post I was responding to, you were talking about meta shifts, then transitioned into talking about possible decks.
So let me amend my statement, "Malorne will never fit in a deck unless that deck makes most games go into fatigue."
Malorne > Dr. Boom *grabs popcorn*
So.... What I said from the beginning? It doesn't fit in any current decks but could succeed in a deck built around it. That was my entire point.
i use him in my ramp drood, he is good value. Opponent has to use both silence and removal on him
I run a mill deck that does well vs control with him and tree of life.
Ofc, it is a Mill deck. It auto loses to aggro... so it kinda sux in the current meta (and will forever unless blizzard realizes what to actually nerf... rip buzzard u didnt deserve it).
I don't see it being run in the current really competitive druids, but in mill, i won several games with him (legend eu, so not scrubbing at rank 15 with a mill druid). The main issue is that Mill again, is autolosing to aggro, rip ranks.
Why would they silence Malorne? Are you running a mill deck?
He's great when he pops up when playing Hunter (when played after Tundra Rhino) or Mage (as a 4 drop), but Dr Boom would be by far a better 7 drop in Druid.
I'm running an unusually greedy ramp build (~rank 3 this season, went legendary in the past with more dedicated play) and would love to have Malorne to experiment with in my deck - possibly even over Dr. Boom.
I have enough ramp, taunts and heal that many games go to long periods of relative stability (each side playing/countering/waiting to draw threats in turn) - occasionally even peaking out at fatigue against other control decks (often with me on the losing side with 4 Ancient of Lore draws - particularly if I counter their draw power (e.g. control warrior acolytes) well). My strategy to have enough big threats to simply blow through their removal and still keep going has become more difficult since GvG though. For these reasons, I suspect Malorne would perform very well in my deck. There is bit of tempo loss, but he is a completely expendable way to test/force removal or take out a giant. He is a scaling control card (the slower the game, the more big threats I am able to drop) and this single added card also provides my deck with fatigue insurance, forcing my opponent to play beatdown, no matter how ill-suited his deck is to the task.
You can of course lose most of these advantages by the opponent silencing him before death, but aside from mind control shennenigans, this means that your expendable card suddenly pulled 2 removals and that your opponent wasted whatever tempo advantage you might have given him.
I am not hugely concerned with his tempo loss against aggro. I have plenty of other cards to make me favored in a zoo or hunter matchup and they are bad enough at dealing with big bodies that even a slow play like Sylvanas often makes for a very defining board presence. My main concern is against midrange tempo decks, such as mech mage and some paladins, but I think this would be small enough compared to the massive benefit vs. control (particularly warriors).
I am confused about Malorne. I really wish there was a graveyard in HS and that you could be able to fetch him back for like 3 mana, then replay him for 7.
As most druid decks work now, you want to filter to get combo pieces, not to get Malorne again. That mainly for ladder though.
Maybe he will see tournament play in decks that aim at the long game.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I don't understand how the roaring tree combo came to be the norm in most ramp druids again. It's great in aggro-midrange but for control, I feel like I'm giving up way too much control and long-term power by going for that approach. This means I'm giving up burst potential which does suck against handlock (among a few others), but that a bit of burst is far from enough to make the matchup favored anyhow and the more greedy approach is squishing most mainstream ramp druids I run into these days.