Sorry if it was already mentioned before, but what if during all the discards made as the game goes on you actually discard the quest card too?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that it was said that the quest cards are always in your starting hand, so I assume that can be (accidentally) discarded too. So it is a huge risk but apparently I'm overlooking something because clearly this was not a risk that should be taken with this quest...
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12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
Sorry if it was already mentioned before, but what if during all the discards made as the game goes on you actually discard the quest card too?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that it was said that the quest cards are always in your starting hand, so I assume that can be (accidentally) discarded too. So it is a huge risk but apparently I'm overlooking something because clearly this was not a risk that should be taken with this quest...
You are always offered the quest card in your mulligan if you have it in your deck. You can choose to mulligan it away, or keep it in your opening hand. If you keep it, you're obviously likely to play it on turn 1 to actually start the quest. After you've started the quest, the quest card (it's a spell by the way, and can be a victim of Counterspell) is no longer in your hand, so you cannot discard it anymore.
But yeah, if you choose to not start the quest before playing discard cards, then you may indeed discard your quest.
The quest looks really interesting and powerful, but it's going to be a hard time to find a home for it: aggressive Discard Zoo does not want it and discard effects work poorly with control decks with their full hands and important cards: remember the times of Doomguard / Sea Giant Zoo? You generally want to run mutually replaceable cards in a discard deck so if you discard some it's OK as long as you can draw into replacements.
The best home for the card seems to be some kind of midrange deck, reminiscent of the Demon Zoo and Sea Giant Zoo old. Maybe that style can be resurrected, but it is going to face a lot of pressure from the more aggressive Discard Zoo.
I'm going to make a normal Renolock in wild except switch out two cards for Lakkari Sacrifice and Deathwing. No discard gimmicks to dilute my early and mid game. Then at the end, Reno the previous turn, Deathwing their followup the next turn, discard 6 cards all at once, and instantly fulfill quest. If they manage to deal with my 12/12 they'll have a never ending stream of 3/2s for the rest of the match.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
If this card is somehow extremely broken Barron Geddon might see play as a tech card to counter this.
Because it can clear the imps every turn.
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Oh? Didn't you know? Yogg-Saron, Hope's End never dies, not even when he's moved to wild due to his new cult member and my newest favorite card Toki, Time Tinker!
Since it seems blizzard forces discard archetype I expect to see an epic rarity card as follows:
Just like Lock And Load or Embrace The Shadow
Terrible card
Agreed. The only time that matters is if you would have gone into fatigue or you chucked a win condition card such as Thaurissan or Jaraxxus, neither of which should happen in a discard warlock.
Maybe a zero mana spell that had the same effect as Malchezzars Imp (but one turn and without the body) would see play, but spending two mana to do nothing is pretty bad.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
I'd say, play Card Lock before you play Doomguard, but does DiscoLock ever have that many cards at turn 7 when that combo could be played? I doubt it will work. Just like most of the Warlock cards that i've seen so far they look like you could do great things with them right before or after you get killed.
This deck fits pretty well into a discard zoolock deck. What bugs me is, does discard zoolock want this card? Usually zoo tries to grab the board early on and don't really want to play a 1 mana do-nothing early...Yet if you choose to mulligan this card away it is worthless. Another question is if the reward is good enough in such a deck?
I dont know if the reward good enough but i i think if you play this quest in zoo you keep it in your hand start with your one drops when it is time to discard then pay 1 mana more than you are set.
IDK how folks can say this is bad, like it's no Priest Quest but it's good.
I am one of the persons who think this card is bad. Not because it's not good in the long run, it's actually quite insane, but let's be real: you can't build a control-discardlock, and this is an control card. Discard is all about tempo, more tempo and even more tempo. You want to finish the enemy on round 7-8, not around round 10. But this is not easy: first you lose round 1. And this is maybe the biggest issue for discardlock. You want something out on round 1. Putting an minion out on round 1 for an agressive and tempo-based deck like discardlock is the difference between winning and losing. Then you need to discard 6 cards. Seems easy and it actually is, BUT, you also need card draw. And that's the big issue there. If you are starting you have 9 cards for starters, 8 with the quest. And you want until then the quest reward. So with 2 cards you need to discard 6 of them. And no, using a discard-minion WITHOUT discarding a card does not work. So at best you have 4 minions on board, because you are mr. superduperlucky (so every enemy that plays against me) and discard the golem that summons automatic on the field.
Ok, you are warlock, and you have this nice hero-power that let you draw a card, but there's another issue: The mana. Discardlock is more like zoo, yes, you can rely on your hero-power, but if you rely on it, you will probably die, since the enemy can have board presence and you can't probably keep up.
So in my eyes a card that require you to skip turn 1, and also uses 5 mana just for 2 3/2 that you can't further interact with (like Defender of Argus) doesn't seem that it's really a good deal for discardlock. Personally i think that Discardlock without Lakkari Sacrifice might actually be much much stronger than with it. Because it seems so good and very agressive, but for an discardlock it's more like an "win more"-card, and i don't like win-more cards. (ok, i like them, but they are simply not playable)
IDK how folks can say this is bad, like it's no Priest Quest but it's good.
I am one of the persons who think this card is bad. Not because it's not good in the long run, it's actually quite insane, but let's be real: you can't build a control-discardlock, and this is an control card. Discard is all about tempo, more tempo and even more tempo. You want to finish the enemy on round 7-8, not around round 10. But this is not easy: first you lose round 1. And this is maybe the biggest issue for discardlock. You want something out on round 1. Putting an minion out on round 1 for an agressive and tempo-based deck like discardlock is the difference between winning and losing. Then you need to discard 6 cards. Seems easy and it actually is, BUT, you also need card draw. And that's the big issue there. If you are starting you have 9 cards for starters, 8 with the quest. And you want until then the quest reward. So with 2 cards you need to discard 6 of them. And no, using a discard-minion WITHOUT discarding a card does not work. So at best you have 4 minions on board, because you are mr. superduperlucky (so every enemy that plays against me) and discard the golem that summons automatic on the field.
Ok, you are warlock, and you have this nice hero-power that let you draw a card, but there's another issue: The mana. Discardlock is more like zoo, yes, you can rely on your hero-power, but if you rely on it, you will probably die, since the enemy can have board presence and you can't probably keep up.
So in my eyes a card that require you to skip turn 1, and also uses 5 mana just for 2 3/2 that you can't further interact with (like Defender of Argus) doesn't seem that it's really a good deal for discardlock. Personally i think that Discardlock without Lakkari Sacrifice might actually be much much stronger than with it. Because it seems so good and very agressive, but for an discardlock it's more like an "win more"-card, and i don't like win-more cards. (ok, i like them, but they are simply not playable)
Just because it starts in your opening hand doesn't mean you need to play it turn one. A great start in aggro discardlock would be T1 flame imp/malchezaars imp, T2 quest another 1 drop or soulfire.
Also it's not really a win more card, it is THE win condition. Usually around T5 or T6 is when discardlock starts to run low on fuel which is the perfect time to drop the quest reward and just start refilling your hand afterwards.
Most decks may be able to handle a couple turns of 3/2 imps, but after awhile it'll just be too much for them to handle. With that being said I do think discardlock is a little overhyped atm.
Just because it starts in your opening hand doesn't mean you need to play it turn one. A great start in aggro discardlock would be T1 flame imp/malchezaars imp, T2 quest another 1 drop or soulfire.
Also it's not really a win more card, it is THE win condition. Usually around T5 or T6 is when discardlock starts to run low on fuel which is the perfect time to drop the quest reward and just start refilling your hand.
Exactly what are my thoughts about the quest, play two 1-drops and the quest in the first 2 turns and you don't lose that much tempo.
The other thing is that even Hunters may use their quest on T1 in order to complete it as fast as possible so both aggressive decks will lose 1 mana in the first few turns but Warlocks only have to play it when they start to discard. And because of the amount of Taunt minions maybe (just maybe!!!) Pirate Warrior and other face decks will see less play and midrange decks will be dominant in the meta, but it is only speculation.
Btw do you have any ideas about this list? I'm sure I will change it after I played with it but in general anything about the concept?
Just because it starts in your opening hand doesn't mean you need to play it turn one. A great start in aggro discardlock would be T1 flame imp/malchezaars imp, T2 quest another 1 drop or soulfire.
Also it's not really a win more card, it is THE win condition. Usually around T5 or T6 is when discardlock starts to run low on fuel which is the perfect time to drop the quest reward and just start refilling your hand afterwards.
Most decks may be able to handle a couple turns of 3/2 imps, but after awhile it'll just be too much for them to handle. With that being said I do think discardlock is a little overhyped atm.
Still you lose 1 mana crystal, and especially on turn 1 this can be fatal. Yes, with your perfect curve it's not as bad, but let's be real, you nearly never have a perfect curve this way. Because of this issue, discard/zoo has so many cheap minions. Also it is anti-tempo even on turn 2, and that's quite deadly for a tempo-based deck like these. Especially in the first 3 rounds you want tempo, more tempo and keep up the pressure. After turn 4 it really doesn't matter as much, but on round 2, you
Also even if you have this "perfect curve", and you started the game, when you played this as starting player, you have exactly 2 card left, 1 progression and a 1/3 on the field. And especially when you play against another aggro-deck this is absolutely nothing. Except you play against me, then you also have a 3/3 on the field too.
But with such a perfect play, every deck can win. But this require exact some cards, and compared to pirate warrior where you have 6 choices on turn 1 that are equally good, this seems too slow.
And like i said before: i don't think that discardlock is weak, but i think it's stronger WITHOUT Lakkari Sacrifice. Because as discardlock you want to end the game at the point where you can play this.
Just because it starts in your opening hand doesn't mean you need to play it turn one. A great start in aggro discardlock would be T1 flame imp/malchezaars imp, T2 quest another 1 drop or soulfire.
Also it's not really a win more card, it is THE win condition. Usually around T5 or T6 is when discardlock starts to run low on fuel which is the perfect time to drop the quest reward and just start refilling your hand afterwards.
Most decks may be able to handle a couple turns of 3/2 imps, but after awhile it'll just be too much for them to handle. With that being said I do think discardlock is a little overhyped atm.
Still you lose 1 mana crystal, and especially on turn 1 this can be fatal. Yes, with your perfect curve it's not as bad, but let's be real, you nearly never have a perfect curve this way. Because of this issue, discard/zoo has so many cheap minions. Also it is anti-tempo even on turn 2, and that's quite deadly for a tempo-based deck like these. Especially in the first 3 rounds you want tempo, more tempo and keep up the pressure. After turn 4 it really doesn't matter as much, but on round 2, you
Also even if you have this "perfect curve", and you started the game, when you played this as starting player, you have exactly 2 card left, 1 progression and a 1/3 on the field. And especially when you play against another aggro-deck this is absolutely nothing. Except you play against me, then you also have a 3/3 on the field too.
But with such a perfect play, every deck can win. But this require exact some cards, and compared to pirate warrior where you have 6 choices on turn 1 that are equally good, this seems too slow.
And like i said before: i don't think that discardlock is weak, but i think it's stronger WITHOUT Lakkari Sacrifice. Because as discardlock you want to end the game at the point where you can play this.
We could go back an forth on this until we turn blue in the face so I guess we will just have to wait until the expansion releases to see. The thing with the warlock quest is that you don't have to cast it until you're ready to start discarding, which some games might not be until T3.
IMO this quest is too slow and two 3/2 isn't good enought in the late game. I'm playing it around turn 7-8. Thus, to have the best use of it you gonna lose 3 slots on the table...sometimes you must have good drops and the portal won't summon the imp because the board is full...
Btw...if some1 find the best use of it, this card could be good with Darkshire Councilman.
I regret crafting this card thinking discolock would be awesome.
From my experience the problem isn't really the quest itself, it's the deck you play it in. While the condition isn't that hard to reach and the reward is fairly strong (it's slow, but eventually more powerful than the other rewards), they are both countered by the deck itself. Firstly, most of the time when you manage to fulfill the quest you've already won, since you've built so much advantage by playing "supercharged" discard cards. And secondly, when you do actually get the quest done and played and the game isn't over you're so low on cards (since you also have to draw a bunch to have cards to discard) that the power of the eternal value you get out of it doesn't have enough time to give you the game.
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It summons two imps at the end of your turn.
Sorry if it was already mentioned before, but what if during all the discards made as the game goes on you actually discard the quest card too?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that it was said that the quest cards are always in your starting hand, so I assume that can be (accidentally) discarded too. So it is a huge risk but apparently I'm overlooking something because clearly this was not a risk that should be taken with this quest...
12 wins in ArenA with: Mage and Paladin, first time legend with Rogue
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OldGuardian
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/old_guardian
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Old_GuardianHS
Blog: http://www.kilkku.com/oldguardian/
The quest looks really interesting and powerful, but it's going to be a hard time to find a home for it: aggressive Discard Zoo does not want it and discard effects work poorly with control decks with their full hands and important cards: remember the times of Doomguard / Sea Giant Zoo? You generally want to run mutually replaceable cards in a discard deck so if you discard some it's OK as long as you can draw into replacements.
The best home for the card seems to be some kind of midrange deck, reminiscent of the Demon Zoo and Sea Giant Zoo old. Maybe that style can be resurrected, but it is going to face a lot of pressure from the more aggressive Discard Zoo.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OldGuardian
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/old_guardian
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Old_GuardianHS
Blog: http://www.kilkku.com/oldguardian/
I'm going to make a normal Renolock in wild except switch out two cards for Lakkari Sacrifice and Deathwing. No discard gimmicks to dilute my early and mid game. Then at the end, Reno the previous turn, Deathwing their followup the next turn, discard 6 cards all at once, and instantly fulfill quest. If they manage to deal with my 12/12 they'll have a never ending stream of 3/2s for the rest of the match.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
If this card is somehow extremely broken Barron Geddon might see play as a tech card to counter this.
Because it can clear the imps every turn.
Oh? Didn't you know? Yogg-Saron, Hope's End never dies, not even when he's moved to wild due to his new cult member and my newest favorite card Toki, Time Tinker!
Since it seems blizzard forces discard archetype I expect to see an epic rarity card as follows:
Just like Lock And Load or Embrace The Shadow
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
I'd say, play Card Lock before you play Doomguard, but does DiscoLock ever have that many cards at turn 7 when that combo could be played?
I doubt it will work.
Just like most of the Warlock cards that i've seen so far they look like you could do great things with them right before or after you get killed.
I am one of the persons who think this card is bad. Not because it's not good in the long run, it's actually quite insane, but let's be real: you can't build a control-discardlock, and this is an control card. Discard is all about tempo, more tempo and even more tempo. You want to finish the enemy on round 7-8, not around round 10. But this is not easy: first you lose round 1. And this is maybe the biggest issue for discardlock. You want something out on round 1. Putting an minion out on round 1 for an agressive and tempo-based deck like discardlock is the difference between winning and losing. Then you need to discard 6 cards. Seems easy and it actually is, BUT, you also need card draw. And that's the big issue there. If you are starting you have 9 cards for starters, 8 with the quest. And you want until then the quest reward. So with 2 cards you need to discard 6 of them. And no, using a discard-minion WITHOUT discarding a card does not work. So at best you have 4 minions on board, because you are mr. superduperlucky (so every enemy that plays against me) and discard the golem that summons automatic on the field.
Ok, you are warlock, and you have this nice hero-power that let you draw a card, but there's another issue: The mana. Discardlock is more like zoo, yes, you can rely on your hero-power, but if you rely on it, you will probably die, since the enemy can have board presence and you can't probably keep up.
So in my eyes a card that require you to skip turn 1, and also uses 5 mana just for 2 3/2 that you can't further interact with (like Defender of Argus) doesn't seem that it's really a good deal for discardlock. Personally i think that Discardlock without Lakkari Sacrifice might actually be much much stronger than with it. Because it seems so good and very agressive, but for an discardlock it's more like an "win more"-card, and i don't like win-more cards. (ok, i like them, but they are simply not playable)
IMO this quest is too slow and two 3/2 isn't good enought in the late game. I'm playing it around turn 7-8. Thus, to have the best use of it you gonna lose 3 slots on the table...sometimes you must have good drops and the portal won't summon the imp because the board is full...
Btw...if some1 find the best use of it, this card could be good with Darkshire Councilman.
I regret crafting this card thinking discolock would be awesome.
From my experience the problem isn't really the quest itself, it's the deck you play it in. While the condition isn't that hard to reach and the reward is fairly strong (it's slow, but eventually more powerful than the other rewards), they are both countered by the deck itself. Firstly, most of the time when you manage to fulfill the quest you've already won, since you've built so much advantage by playing "supercharged" discard cards. And secondly, when you do actually get the quest done and played and the game isn't over you're so low on cards (since you also have to draw a bunch to have cards to discard) that the power of the eternal value you get out of it doesn't have enough time to give you the game.