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@Horkinger
That's not how you evaluate cards. Thoughtsteal isn't a net gain of two like you said. You're trading one of YOUR cards (wasting a deckslot/card) AND 3 mana go get two RANDOM cards.
Value = -3 mana, discard a card get 2 random card.
Mind vision gives you a hint of your oponents deck, waste a slot and gives you a random card for 1 mana.
The reason these cards aren't played are obvious: they're SLOW.
DO on the other hand, is very solid body, acts as a dragon activator, and provides MORE insight and MORE choice than these two combined. You don't waste deck slots, mana nor is it totally random. Everything is good about it.
The value of taking a look at the oponents deck are very underestimated also. Knowing if you're up against a combo renolock or not is a big deal. Mind vision giving you PO doesn't mean shit.
I don't know why you are talking about mind Vision. That card doesn't have anything to do with DO. And I don't know who told you that Thoughtsteal is a net gain of two Cards. I at least didn't. I compared the effect of thoughtsteal with discover (like if DO had Thoughtsteal instead of discover which I would consider stronger).
And Thoughtsteal gives you two random Cards, but so works discover. You can discover between three random Cards. So you could see it as getting two random Cards out of the three from discover (whether three are randomly pre-selected and you randomly choose two or you choose randomly two out of all of them doesn't make a difference). But of course discover lets you look at one additional card in comparison to thoughtsteal.
And no, DO doesn't give you more insight than mind Vision and thoughtsteal combined. In both cases you get to know three Cards of your Opponent. But more important, mind Vision gives you insight in what he has in Hand instead of what still is in his deck. Mind Vision giving you PO means he has it in hand. It's a similar information as having it as an discover Option (he doesn't have this copy). And you also always forget to Price the condition of DO.
So this card is OP and you have a tough turn 5 against Dragon Preist.
... But you must have a pretty good turns 1-4 and 6-10 because Dragon Preist loses to tier 1 decks.
Chances are you will best Dragon Preist even with this card. So what's the problem really?
Ok, I've written down a simple NO to this question in a previous post, but since this argument has been going on for so long I'd like to elaborate.
If we look at a card in a vacuum it is indeed a very good card, I could agree it might be considered overpowered.
BUT... the thing is... Cards do not exist in a vacuum and its value has to be assessed along with the other cards you have available to fill the other 28 slots in the deck. Priest has started this expansion in arguably the worst position of all 9 classes, and has been given decent tools besides Drakonid Operative, but STILL is in no way a Tier 1 deck in the current meta, and in a foreseeable future we know it will lose most Dragon support cards from BRM and other expansions/adventures such asChillmaw and others.
Priest MIGHT get amazing and overpowered Dragon cards along with other tools that will support this archetype and make it a dominating Tier 1 deck, but while we are waiting to see what happens, please stop whining about a single card - the card might be strong, but Priest in not in any way broken - and you don't play against a single card!
Have fun and enjoy the game!
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@evertonbelmontt; I'll agree with Horkinger, Mind Vision is actually literally irrelevant to this conversation. Thoughtsteal we can work with though, since I do think they're similar in function; both pull a card(s) from your opponent's deck, both net you information on what they've yet to draw and likely what kind of deck they're playing.
Now, where it get's a bit twisted is evaluating the cost of both; Thoughtsteal is probably overcosted considering it's pretty much a worse AI, but you can tell drawing in general regardless of source is actually pretty standard 1-1.5 mana. You can also look at every other Discover minion in the game and see that the Discover mechanic is generally worth the same (Curator being a 1/2, Courier being a 2/2, etc.).
Now, since we're dealing with a Dragon trigger let's take a look at what we're comparing there;
- Alexstraza's Champion; a vanilla 2/3 that gains ~1.5 mana in stats (+1 attack for 0.5, Charge for 1)
- Wyrmrest Agent; a vanilla 1/4 that gains ~1.5 mana in stats (+1 attack for 0.5, Taunt for 1)
- Twilight Whelp; a vanilla 2/1 that gains 1 mana in stats
- Twilight Guardian; a slightly understatted 2/6 that gains 1.5 mana in stats (+1 attack for 0.5, Taunt for 1)
I mean, the list goes on. But we can generally see that most Dragon cards are starting as properly statted Vanilla minions and gaining 1-1.5 mana worth of value simply by being able to trigger the Dragon conditional.
So, let's revisit Operative; you have a vanilla 5/6 for 5 mana, with a Dragon conditional worth ~1-1.5 mana. Combine that with the fact this is a class card, and no Dr. Boom is not a valid comparison. The card is great and I'd agree it certainly feels like the best Discover in the game, but it's also not grossly undercosted if you look at how almost every other card generator and Dragon are priced.
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This ^^ but Ill play the fool for evertonbelmont because clearly his presumptions are fact.
You two seriously lack the common sense. Thoughtsteal is inferior in every way and can even give you the same cards, it happens quite a lot, giving you much less insight and choice. How is this not obvious is either a lack of ability/experience or trolling.
Also, don't disregard the mana cost and tempo gain from drakonid, since combined cards often cost MORE, not less. Even the fool admits that on hia original post.
As for stats on the other dragon cards, early minions are more stat inflated than late game minions or minions that have more meaningfull effects. Effect on drakonid is way better than any of this, just look at the post above.
Drakonid opens up your deck to counter the agressive meta by teching against aggro and using DO against control, while every other deck has ths risk of getting a ragnaros on it's starting hand.
And n'zoth IS broken beyond risk. Why do you think we have so many powerfull deathrattles now? /s
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The "/s" at the end means "sarcasm", just in case you didn't notice/know.
I'll say this again: DO is extremelly OP, but since it's a priest card and considering their overall toolkit, it doesn't need nerfing.
Every streamer saw this, every good player sees this. But then comes the ones who think the card is perfectly balanced, every class needs a card like this and whatever. This entire thread reflects this. We already break down the card and if you still want to deny it's OPness, feel free to do so. The top players are happy in agree to disagree.
OP, in terms of high value for the cost? Perhaps. Broken and in need of a nerf? Hell no, not even close.
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Exactly. And I'm happy it exists, because of it priest now can help purge the pirate meta.
Against MY control warlock (reno) I outvalued them with AoE and kazzakus (yeap, no 'autowin' jaraxx) Mages will have to do the same thing and warrior IDK.
Hi
Drakonid Operative gives Priest a viable deck and that deck helps to give Pirates a bit of trouble, which is a good thing. There are still current meta decks which completely destroy Dragon Priest at the moment though, Operative or not. If Renolock can get any board control (which is easy with 40,000 board clears) and drop Jaraxxus, it's gg for Priest. Priest has 0% winrate vs. Jaraxxus.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
You are clueless indeed hahahah.
I already told you that's not how you evaluate thoughtsteal, if you want to ignore the real thing and try to missguide anyone who knows this game, keep on, but you're doing a poor job. Post is on last page if you want to clear your mind.
And you're restricting the usefullness of copies to reno decks, surprise surprise: majority of decks you're going to find on ladder aren't reno and you can get two copies with TS.
@Horkinger, Control players and their hubris know no bounds basically. They also seem to value that precious deck information thing a ton; like how much mana is limited information worth in reality? Blizzard appears to think "not much" is the answer based on stuff like Mind Vision and Thoughtsteal. It's more like one of the perks Priests have always just had.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?