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Quote from notsoclutch >>

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>dn't?

 You aren't getting the point.  As someone who used to play a lot of mid-range Shaman, I know exactly what overload does.  Getting a totem Golem out on turn 2 allows you to get better trades since you aren't fighting against 3 drops, you are fighting against other 2 drops.  Then, you keep part of the totem golem on board to help with trades against your opponent's turn 3 play.  You also play the totem golem on board while most removal is still only 3 or less damage (ie frostbolt, fiery war axe, etc). 

Similarly with 4 mana 7/7, you aren't going against 6 drops, the opponent only has 4 or 5 mana to work with so you get even more favorable trades and it avoids removal like entomb or siphon soul that most 6 drops have to worry about while having more health than common damage removals like fireball can handle on turn 4.  These factors give cards like 4 mana 7/7 a lot of extra value that a 6 mana 7/7 would not actually have.  Hence why I hate adding overload to the cost of overload cards as it undersells the value that overload gives these cards. 

Like I said, the total cost is 6 mana, so it makes since that it would trade with more than a single 4 drop. It comes down earlier than a 6 mana 7/7, but ignoring the overload is just plain stupid. If it gets removed by something like shadow word death or sap then you don't just lose 4 mana, you still lose 6 mana. You also don't seem to take into consideration that it is more likely than not going to be played past turn 4, or at least that is my experience anyway. I rarely get to play it on turn 4 myself.

 Assuming it is played after turn 4 it still gets slightly more value than a 6 mana 7/7.  You can play it when you are overloaded, you can play it and something else including another Flamewreathed.  Yes I get the fact that it costs 6 mana in total, but in reality the 4 mana cost + 2 overload is incredibly significant.  I'm not at all saying that the 2 mana overload is completely insignificant, but overload gives cards extra value.  A vanilla 6 mana 7/7 would never be played, a 4 mana 7/7 with an overload of 2 is incredibly powerful (regardless of your opinion on it). 

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>dn't?

 You aren't getting the point.  As someone who used to play a lot of mid-range Shaman, I know exactly what overload does.  Getting a totem Golem out on turn 2 allows you to get better trades since you aren't fighting against 3 drops, you are fighting against other 2 drops.  Then, you keep part of the totem golem on board to help with trades against your opponent's turn 3 play.  You also play the totem golem on board while most removal is still only 3 or less damage (ie frostbolt, fiery war axe, etc). 

Similarly with 4 mana 7/7, you aren't going against 6 drops, the opponent only has 4 or 5 mana to work with so you get even more favorable trades and it avoids removal like entomb or siphon soul that most 6 drops have to worry about while having more health than common damage removals like fireball can handle on turn 4.  These factors give cards like 4 mana 7/7 a lot of extra value that a 6 mana 7/7 would not actually have.  Hence why I hate adding overload to the cost of overload cards as it undersells the value that overload gives these cards. 

Like I said, the total cost is 6 mana, so it makes since that it would trade with more than a single 4 drop. It comes down earlier than a 6 mana 7/7, but ignoring the overload is just plain stupid. If it gets removed by something like shadow word death or sap then you don't just lose 4 mana, you still lose 6 mana. You also don't seem to take into consideration that it is more likely than not going to be played past turn 4, or at least that is my experience anyway. I rarely get to play it on turn 4 myself.

 Assuming it is played after turn 4 it still gets slightly more value than a 6 mana 7/7.  You can play it when you are overloaded, you can play it and something else including another Flamewreathed.  Yes I get the fact that it costs 6 mana in total, but in reality the 4 mana cost + 2 overload is incredibly significant.  I'm not at all saying that the 2 mana overload is completely insignificant, but overload gives cards extra value.  A vanilla 6 mana 7/7 would never be played, a 4 mana 7/7 with an overload of 2 is incredibly powerful (regardless of your opinion on it). 

 If we accept your premise that overload isn't that significant then I think we would see a lot more Earth Elementals as a 7/8 taunt for 5 mana is better than a vanilla 7/7 for 4 mana. Like I said in my original post, a 4 mana 7/7 with 2 overload is really powerful, but not quite op in my opinion because without cheating the overload you are going to gain tempo now to lose it next turn and that can even it out.

Quote from jferrante831 >>

A very strong card if you can't deal with it, but most classes are now prepared to do so. Humility, Aldor Peacekeeper, Sap, Power Overwhelming, Keeper of Uldaman, Execute, Shadow Word: Death, Flame Lance, Frostbolt and trade, Polymorph , Hex, Hunter's Mark, Big Game Hunter.  Druid is really the only class that doesn't have a good counter for it, but they have such strong taunts for cheap and other decent removal spells.  When playing against shaman you just really have to mulligan hard for removal.  Sometimes they will just curve out perfect and there's nothing you can do but move onto the next game.  Or if you are running into a lot of shaman, just play a class that can out tempo them.

Quote from The_Edel_Bernal >>

3 Overload should be able to balance it

There are several threads about this already.  Use the Search function before starting a new thread.

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