Blizzard has has already chosen the best way to reward dungeon runs, by offering no reward other than fun (and the card back).
If if you find fun to be too small a reward, then you miss out on absolutely nothing by not playing.
The logic is simple and brilliant.
That is arrogant and wrong.
They are so many other games out there, that even if we limit the pool to just free games they will still be a hundred options that offer more fun than a dungeon run with nothing on the line.
We missed out what they could have been spending resources on, instead of making a mode that is pointless they could have been fixing some of the many problems or working on one of the modes people want.
lawyered
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Saying RNG isn't detracting from skill in hearthstone, won't convince anyone it's a good idea. It just shows your too stupid to understand the basics principles of good game design.
Blizzard has has already chosen the best way to reward dungeon runs, by offering no reward other than fun (and the card back).
If if you find fun to be too small a reward, then you miss out on absolutely nothing by not playing.
The logic is simple and brilliant.
That is arrogant and wrong.
They are so many other games out there, that even if we limit the pool to just free games they will still be a hundred options that offer more fun than a dungeon run with nothing on the line.
We missed out what they could have been spending resources on, instead of making a mode that is pointless they could have been fixing some of the many problems or working on one of the modes people want.
lawyered
'Lawyered' LUL
I think you're flat out wrong, and that you're the one who is arrogant. I want this mode, and there will be millions more like me. This means that Blizzard has in fact been working on a mode people want, just not the one you dreamed of.
TLDR: Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Without rewards, this mode will rarely be played. If this cannot complete Daily Quests, or the 10g/3w, and it rewards absolutely nothing, then players WILL play Tavern Brawl, Ranked, and even Casual instead of this.
The reason why people play Ranked even after completing their Daily Quests is because of (1) the higher the rank, the cooler you are, and (2) the montly rewards when the season ends.
My goal was to incorporate both of those into Dungeon Runs, giving DRs a Leaderboard, so people could compare themselves and see how cool everyone is, AND to give them post run rewards (but not after each run - which doesnt force them to play DR).
The first release, I guarantee you it'll be played like CrAzY because EVERYONE is eager to see how it functions. And after messing around with their 9 classes, checking out all the fun scenarios, and NOT getting anything for it, they'll swap off to Ranked, Casual, or TB just to get their Daily Quests. And then when we don't log in for 3 days and need to complete a slew of quests, we're not going to touch Dungeon Run. When we are interested in getting to rank 15, 10, 5 or even Legend nearing the end of the Season, we're not going to waste our time with reward-less Dungeon Runs.
But maybe for those of us who don't have said goals in mind, we might play one or two dungeon runs before realizing we're getting nothing for it. Blizzard claims its for everyone's own good, but I have trouble getting to Rank 10. I don't care too much, so even if I sit at rank 11 with a star or two, I would try to push to rank 10, lose a game or two, and then go play Dungeon Runs. I will then log off Hearthstone after two plays because I see no value in doing Dungeon Runs.
I'm not your enemy, I agree that the reward of entertainment is fantastic, and I'll enjoy Dungeon Runs, but in the age of "everything needs value or reason" where our current generation grows up learning that entertainment has little value, and TIME is a resource you must spend wisely -- we discover that a Dungeon Run could take us a chunk of time, possibly 20 to 30 minutes, maybe even more. What do we get for spending our resource, Time? Nothing. Entertainment has too low value for the time we spend on Dungeon Runs.
Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Blizzard fucked it up already with Overwatch. They had Competitive, Quickplay and the players were split between two choices. Then they brought out the Arcade with many unique game modes... and they stapled a LOOT BOX per 3 WINS per WEEK reward in the Arcade. Everyone feels semi-forced to play arcade, especially when there is a new event. Lots of folks from both game modes feel like their only way to net Loot Boxes quickly is to play Arcade, even when the game modes suck. They're forcing us to play arcade because of one thing: The other modes don't have loot box have rewards. If they just give Quickplay the same rewards as Arcade, then they won't be forcing players to do anything. IF they give competitive a slightly less relevant reward (like 1 loot box per 5 wins?) so it doesn't derail from the Competitive experience, that is NOT forcing us to play those modes. Yea, I actually could play competitive a little more often, but I won't feel forced into Competitive.
Basically I agree that there is the risk of Dungeon Mode failing if there is lack of reward, the cardback youll get for completing it with all 9 classes is a nice thing however its propably not enough in the long run so Dungeon Mode might end up like an adventure, people complete it once and after that they play other modes because they get gold there.
But here is actually a big chance to give new players a chance to have fun + gaining some gold. Asuming youll need like 3 hours to complete 1 successful run (failing included) there should be some kind of compensation for the loss of gold/time ratio compared to standard, otherwise this mode will be a onehit wonder which would be a shame since theres lots of potential here.
TLDR: Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Without rewards, this mode will rarely be played. If this cannot complete Daily Quests, or the 10g/3w, and it rewards absolutely nothing, then players WILL play Tavern Brawl, Ranked, and even Casual instead of this.
The reason why people play Ranked even after completing their Daily Quests is because of (1) the higher the rank, the cooler you are, and (2) the montly rewards when the season ends.
My goal was to incorporate both of those into Dungeon Runs, giving DRs a Leaderboard, so people could compare themselves and see how cool everyone is, AND to give them post run rewards (but not after each run - which doesnt force them to play DR).
The first release, I guarantee you it'll be played like CrAzY because EVERYONE is eager to see how it functions. And after messing around with their 9 classes, checking out all the fun scenarios, and NOT getting anything for it, they'll swap off to Ranked, Casual, or TB just to get their Daily Quests. And then when we don't log in for 3 days and need to complete a slew of quests, we're not going to touch Dungeon Run. When we are interested in getting to rank 15, 10, 5 or even Legend nearing the end of the Season, we're not going to waste our time with reward-less Dungeon Runs.
But maybe for those of us who don't have said goals in mind, we might play one or two dungeon runs before realizing we're getting nothing for it. Blizzard claims its for everyone's own good, but I have trouble getting to Rank 10. I don't care too much, so even if I sit at rank 11 with a star or two, I would try to push to rank 10, lose a game or two, and then go play Dungeon Runs. I will then log off Hearthstone after two plays because I see no value in doing Dungeon Runs.
I'm not your enemy, I agree that the reward of entertainment is fantastic, and I'll enjoy Dungeon Runs, but in the age of "everything needs value or reason" where our current generation grows up learning that entertainment has little value, and TIME is a resource you must spend wisely -- we discover that a Dungeon Run could take us a chunk of time, possibly 20 to 30 minutes, maybe even more. What do we get for spending our resource, Time? Nothing. Entertainment has too low value for the time we spend on Dungeon Runs.
Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Blizzard fucked it up already with Overwatch. They had Competitive, Quickplay and the players were split between two choices. Then they brought out the Arcade with many unique game modes... and they stapled a LOOT BOX per 3 WINS per WEEK reward in the Arcade. Everyone feels semi-forced to play arcade, especially when there is a new event. Lots of folks from both game modes feel like their only way to net Loot Boxes quickly is to play Arcade, even when the game modes suck. They're forcing us to play arcade because of one thing: The other modes don't have loot box have rewards. If they just give Quickplay the same rewards as Arcade, then they won't be forcing players to do anything. IF they give competitive a slightly less relevant reward (like 1 loot box per 5 wins?) so it doesn't derail from the Competitive experience, that is NOT forcing us to play those modes. Yea, I actually could play competitive a little more often, but I won't feel forced into Competitive.
So if I understand your “logic” you in one post say both that Blizzard fucked up Overwatch by forcing you a game mode where they gave rewards and at the same time they fucked up Hearthstone by NOT forcing you a game mode where they do not give rewards for playing it?!?
Ben and the other developers already explained at Blizzcon that they didn't want there to be "reward" incentives for people to play the Dungeon Run single player mode. If you start handing out things like gold/dust/packs, it kind of forces people to want to grind it, which was not their intention or vision for this game mode. They wanted this to be a single player thing that you could do for fun only. And yes, there is the Card Back you can get from completing it with all nine classes, but that's purely cosmetic, and only one time.
Ben and the other developers already explained at Blizzcon that they didn't want there to be "reward" incentives for people to play the Dungeon Run single player mode. If you start handing out things like gold/dust/packs, it kind of forces people to want to grind it, which was not their intention or vision for this game mode. They wanted this to be a single player thing that you could do for fun only. And yes, there is the Card Back you can get from completing it with all nine classes, but that's purely cosmetic, and only one time.
While thats true, I think its a little bit short sighted by Dev. Team. Nobody will play this after he got the cardback if there is at least not some gold as compensation for time loss. And this is a game mode, not an adventure. Itll be tagged onto the starting screen next to Ladder/Brawl/Arena.
This is however the activision problem theyll get all over again its kinda stupid. Activision forces blizz to reduce reward system to a minimum after that player base is breaking away and blizz needs to fix it by reworking reward system its kinda retarded.
Its what happened to HOTS/Diablo2 and itll happen to this game mode eventually dunno why this obvious mistake repeats thought.
Why tf are you all so greedy? Its a new completely FREE mode that doesnt influence anything else coming out at all and yet still you are all asking for more free shit to come out of it. Cant you appreciate the fact they even added them in the first place?
Its just funny.. people are given some cool mode to play completely free.. and they complain, that they won't get any reward for playing it.. :)
crazy. In my days, we had to buy a game (and it was actually pretty expensive) and still got no rewards playing it.. well except fun of course. But fun is not enough these days I guess :D
It's not working like this. Even if you play single player game, let's say Witcher 3, you go into dungeon not only for fun killing monsters. You expect to get some loot from it. And getting better equipment/skills is main progression for single-player RPG. Same way as getting cards as a main progression for CCG. So you should get cards or other currency you can convert into cards in order to feel good about playing this mode.
Its just funny.. people are given some cool mode to play completely free.. and they complain, that they won't get any reward for playing it.. :)
crazy. In my days, we had to buy a game (and it was actually pretty expensive) and still got no rewards playing it.. well except fun of course. But fun is not enough these days I guess :D
It's not working like this. Even if you play single player game, let's say Witcher 3, you go into dungeon not only for fun killing monsters. You expect to get some loot from it. And getting better equipment/skills is main progression for single-player RPG. Same way as getting cards as a main progression for CCG. So you should get cards or other currency you can convert into cards in order to feel good about playing this mode.
As a counter example consider most rogue-like games (e.g. the Binding of Isaac), where people play a run which rarely has any impact on future runs whatsoever. Yet they still play the game purely because they enjoy each run in itself.
I am not really taking a side on this but the idea that a free, stand-alone game mode has to give you tangible rewards is puzzling. Fun has value in itself (that is a large reason why people spend money on most things not required for survival), it is just a simple matter of whether each person values the fun of dungeon runs enough to invest the time.
Its just funny.. people are given some cool mode to play completely free.. and they complain, that they won't get any reward for playing it.. :)
crazy. In my days, we had to buy a game (and it was actually pretty expensive) and still got no rewards playing it.. well except fun of course. But fun is not enough these days I guess :D
It's not working like this. Even if you play single player game, let's say Witcher 3, you go into dungeon not only for fun killing monsters. You expect to get some loot from it. And getting better equipment/skills is main progression for single-player RPG. Same way as getting cards as a main progression for CCG. So you should get cards or other currency you can convert into cards in order to feel good about playing this mode.
As a counter example consider most rogue-like games (e.g. the Binding of Isaac), where people play a run which rarely has any impact on future runs whatsoever. Yet they still play the game purely because they enjoy each run in itself.
I am not really taking a side on this but the idea that a free, stand-alone game mode has to give you tangible rewards is puzzling. Fun has value in itself (that is a large reason why people spend money on most things not required for survival), it is just a simple matter of whether each person values the fun of dungeon runs enough to invest the time.
A counter example to both of those is that some of us play Witcher 3 and expect loot, while others play Binding of Isaac or other Rogue Likes and expect no result from their run.
My post is from the perspective of a Loot-Expected person. Those who say I am complaining are from the Rogue Like perspective.
It doesn't HAVE to give you rewards. It'll see more use if it does.
An argument against BoI is that you actually do have future runs impacted: Defeat Mom's Foot? Unlock the Womb. Defeat Mom's Heart a couple times? Unlock "It Lives!" Defeat that a couple times? Unlock Sheol and The Chest.
Each run you finish will essentially reward your future runs. I myself have unlocked a majority in BoI... and then I stopped playing because my runs were no longer being rewarded.
Its just funny.. people are given some cool mode to play completely free.. and they complain, that they won't get any reward for playing it.. :)
crazy. In my days, we had to buy a game (and it was actually pretty expensive) and still got no rewards playing it.. well except fun of course. But fun is not enough these days I guess :D
I don't think gold or packs should be given for it as it would force players who don't want to do the content to do it but I do think have some cosmetic rewards (such as Titles, hero trays, mana crystal themes, game board items and hero costumes etc,) as apart of a proper achievement system would add replay value and encourage more people to give it a try.
My bet is Blizzard invented this mode to improve some gaming experiences and in order to 'make more money'. They do this by helping players engage into a game-mode where they do not make gold. It's called opportunity cost in economics and it's the cost of doing things other than making money.
So to all the players who call some players greedy for wanting a reward-system within Dungeon Runs: Be our guest. Play the Dungeon Runs when they are fun in the beginning and keep playing them when they are still fun but most other players are making gold on the ladder and in the Arena. You will fall behind. Slowly, gradualy, 10 gold at a time. By the time we reach 2019 you will feel poor compared to the rest of the HS players.
I don't think gold or packs should be given for it as it would force players who don't want to do the content to do it but I do think have some cosmetic rewards (such as Titles, hero trays, mana crystal themes, game board items and hero costumes etc,) as apart of a proper achievement system would add replay value and encourage more people to give it a try.
that I could certainly agree with.. but you still have to consider, that it is basically free to play standalone game. Its like a gift from Blizzard to players, only.. to players of a greedy game:)
I offer you a gift. My gift to you is that you may transfer some money to me if you want. It's up to you to decide if you want to do it or not and if you find it fun or not. You lose nothing if you choose not to transfer me money. It's a free extra choice you have in life now.
I don't think gold or packs should be given for it as it would force players who don't want to do the content to do it but I do think have some cosmetic rewards (such as Titles, hero trays, mana crystal themes, game board items and hero costumes etc,) as apart of a proper achievement system would add replay value and encourage more people to give it a try.
that I could certainly agree with.. but you still have to consider, that it is basically free to play standalone game. Its like a gift from Blizzard to players, only.. to players of a greedy game:)
I don't think it's greedy to want the mode to be more appealing and have more replay value, people want the mode to be a hit so we can have it show up in all expansions. Just having achievements that require you to beat the different bosses in harder ways adds a goal even if there's no cosmetic you can still brag about it so a mix of cosmetic rewards and no rewards would be fine even if the cosmetic rewards are just titles people can show those off to other players and basically say "look at how much of a bad ass I am for beating this boss an even harder way".
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This is pointless and complicated.
Blizzard has has already chosen the best way to reward dungeon runs, by offering no reward other than fun (and the card back).
If if you find fun to be too small a reward, then you miss out on absolutely nothing by not playing.
The logic is simple and brilliant.
Saying RNG isn't detracting from skill in hearthstone, won't convince anyone it's a good idea. It just shows your too stupid to understand the basics principles of good game design.
TLDR: Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Without rewards, this mode will rarely be played. If this cannot complete Daily Quests, or the 10g/3w, and it rewards absolutely nothing, then players WILL play Tavern Brawl, Ranked, and even Casual instead of this.
The reason why people play Ranked even after completing their Daily Quests is because of (1) the higher the rank, the cooler you are, and (2) the montly rewards when the season ends.
My goal was to incorporate both of those into Dungeon Runs, giving DRs a Leaderboard, so people could compare themselves and see how cool everyone is, AND to give them post run rewards (but not after each run - which doesnt force them to play DR).
The first release, I guarantee you it'll be played like CrAzY because EVERYONE is eager to see how it functions. And after messing around with their 9 classes, checking out all the fun scenarios, and NOT getting anything for it, they'll swap off to Ranked, Casual, or TB just to get their Daily Quests. And then when we don't log in for 3 days and need to complete a slew of quests, we're not going to touch Dungeon Run. When we are interested in getting to rank 15, 10, 5 or even Legend nearing the end of the Season, we're not going to waste our time with reward-less Dungeon Runs.
But maybe for those of us who don't have said goals in mind, we might play one or two dungeon runs before realizing we're getting nothing for it. Blizzard claims its for everyone's own good, but I have trouble getting to Rank 10. I don't care too much, so even if I sit at rank 11 with a star or two, I would try to push to rank 10, lose a game or two, and then go play Dungeon Runs. I will then log off Hearthstone after two plays because I see no value in doing Dungeon Runs.
I'm not your enemy, I agree that the reward of entertainment is fantastic, and I'll enjoy Dungeon Runs, but in the age of "everything needs value or reason" where our current generation grows up learning that entertainment has little value, and TIME is a resource you must spend wisely -- we discover that a Dungeon Run could take us a chunk of time, possibly 20 to 30 minutes, maybe even more. What do we get for spending our resource, Time? Nothing. Entertainment has too low value for the time we spend on Dungeon Runs.
Giving us rewards won't force us to play Dungeon Runs. It'll allow us to feel good about playing Dungeon Runs.
Blizzard fucked it up already with Overwatch. They had Competitive, Quickplay and the players were split between two choices. Then they brought out the Arcade with many unique game modes... and they stapled a LOOT BOX per 3 WINS per WEEK reward in the Arcade. Everyone feels semi-forced to play arcade, especially when there is a new event. Lots of folks from both game modes feel like their only way to net Loot Boxes quickly is to play Arcade, even when the game modes suck. They're forcing us to play arcade because of one thing: The other modes don't have loot box have rewards. If they just give Quickplay the same rewards as Arcade, then they won't be forcing players to do anything. IF they give competitive a slightly less relevant reward (like 1 loot box per 5 wins?) so it doesn't derail from the Competitive experience, that is NOT forcing us to play those modes. Yea, I actually could play competitive a little more often, but I won't feel forced into Competitive.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
You asked for rewards like gold/dust/card packs for repeatedly comleteing Karazan and other single player modes, too??
--Alfi--
So basically you are saying that Blizzard need you to pay you for a chance to entertaint you???
--Alfi--
Basically I agree that there is the risk of Dungeon Mode failing if there is lack of reward, the cardback youll get for completing it with all 9 classes is a nice thing however its propably not enough in the long run so Dungeon Mode might end up like an adventure, people complete it once and after that they play other modes because they get gold there.
But here is actually a big chance to give new players a chance to have fun + gaining some gold. Asuming youll need like 3 hours to complete 1 successful run (failing included) there should be some kind of compensation for the loss of gold/time ratio compared to standard, otherwise this mode will be a onehit wonder which would be a shame since theres lots of potential here.
--Alfi--
Actually, that's a good idea. But Blizzrd is too greedy to make it.
One day this game will stop existing. I can't wait.
Ben and the other developers already explained at Blizzcon that they didn't want there to be "reward" incentives for people to play the Dungeon Run single player mode. If you start handing out things like gold/dust/packs, it kind of forces people to want to grind it, which was not their intention or vision for this game mode. They wanted this to be a single player thing that you could do for fun only. And yes, there is the Card Back you can get from completing it with all nine classes, but that's purely cosmetic, and only one time.
Why tf are you all so greedy? Its a new completely FREE mode that doesnt influence anything else coming out at all and yet still you are all asking for more free shit to come out of it. Cant you appreciate the fact they even added them in the first place?
That's Incredible!
Here's my thoughts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/7ax2jt/lets_talk_about_cosmetic_rewards_and_a_proper/
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My post is from the perspective of a Loot-Expected person. Those who say I am complaining are from the Rogue Like perspective.
It doesn't HAVE to give you rewards.
It'll see more use if it does.
An argument against BoI is that you actually do have future runs impacted:
Defeat Mom's Foot? Unlock the Womb.
Defeat Mom's Heart a couple times? Unlock "It Lives!"
Defeat that a couple times? Unlock Sheol and The Chest.
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
My bet is Blizzard invented this mode to improve some gaming experiences and in order to 'make more money'. They do this by helping players engage into a game-mode where they do not make gold. It's called opportunity cost in economics and it's the cost of doing things other than making money.
So to all the players who call some players greedy for wanting a reward-system within Dungeon Runs: Be our guest. Play the Dungeon Runs when they are fun in the beginning and keep playing them when they are still fun but most other players are making gold on the ladder and in the Arena. You will fall behind. Slowly, gradualy, 10 gold at a time. By the time we reach 2019 you will feel poor compared to the rest of the HS players.