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I don't understand. My deck has 2 of each.
pls forget that ever happened thank you
Haha, no worries. :)
Anyway, assuming you were thinking of someone else's deck, I can probably answer your question. Ancient of Lore is 'better' than Ancient of War because it draws cards. It's at least 3-for-1 card advantage (2 for the cards you draw, plus 1 for the 5/5 minion), and sometimes 4-for-1 if the opponent uses 2 cards to kill it. That's why many Druid decks use 2 Lore and only 1 War.
But obviously I think you're right, 5/10 taunt is amazing, which is why most other Druid players didn't hit legendary this season. ;)
Yupyou got it right, I have 4 ramp druid guides im looking at hahaha.
Edit. I apparently only have 1 of each (i thought I had 2 war) lol. I can only craft one right now while I save up for the other. Which is more needed in to face zoo and the mid range hunter? Should i craft the war and substitute the Lore with nourish for now or do I craft the Lore and use sunfury in place of the War
I guess so, but it obviously won't be as good. If you already have the Nourish then it can't hurt to try it while you're waiting to accumulate more dust. Another option is Azure Drake, which draws a card and gives you a decent-sized body. He's like a mini-Ancient of Lore. The spell damage also draws a lot of attention, so he soaks up removal.
Love this deck!
Okay thanks for the advice. I'm testing out the nourish for now it seems to be performing pretty okay. I'm 9 wins - 2 losses right now but only on casual coz I wanna get used to the deck and proper decision making.
I have been pondering something for last couple of days.
Zoo and hunters... hunters and zoo. I don't seem to have enough valid targets to justify 2 slots for manipulators since starting hand and first couple of draws are so important. So, the question is what to replace one manipulator with. I have tried this far: a) Nourish b) Auctioneer c) Azure drake d) Pyromancer e) Abomination. Can't make up my mind. Nourish is too slow. Drake and Abomination are turn 5 drops. Auctioneer lives a turn only against control anyway.
So... is the best option really a Pyromancer or do you have any other ideas/suggestions?
Abomination is pretty solid. It kills everything against Zoo, and most things against Hunter. Wild Pyromancer is also fine, but not as good without Mark of the Wild. You're right that Azure Drake is probably too slow, but if you can hold off the early rush then it should give you at least 3-for-1 card advantage as well as boosting a Swipe into a nuke.
I also think you're underrating Faceless Manipulator. Against Zoo it can copy a Doomguard or a taunt minion buffed by Defender of Argus etc. Against Hunter it can copy Savannah Highmane, especially after they buff+taunt the Highmane with Houndmaster. In both matchups, it fits perfectly on the curve to copy your own Sen'jin Shieldmasta. That may not be the most high-power play, but it gets the job done against aggressive decks. Late game, if you survive long enough, you can play Ancient of War, Innervate and Faceless Manipulator all on the same turn for a nearly unbreakable wall of 20 taunt.
one Faceless Manipulator is a must.
2 I think is too much.
Congratulations on winning a game in Casual. :P
No, I'm just teasing. ;)
I just lack 1 faceless manipulator, what can I put it in place? Sylvana perhaps? or something else
Depends what the metagame you're facing is like. I don't like Sylvanas Windrunner unless the metagame is heavily control, but in heavy control metas I'd rather have Ysera. In an aggressive meta I'd probably use Sunwalker.
It seems like everyone has wildly different perceptions of the/their metagame. Either the metagame shifts very rapidly, or there are significant differences in different regions (NA/EU/Asia) or different times of day. So I'll just say it's up to you, depending on how you see your 'local' metagame.
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PremiumMeta today on EU was (over 69 games)
35% hunter
25% zoo
17% miracle-rogue
10% druid (ramp, a few token)
6% rush-mage
4% control warrior
4% shaman
3% paladin
3% priest
the hunter / zoo spam got me down from 4 to 6. got a really bad win rate against it (37.5% vs hunter, 40.0% vs zoo)
deck differs from op in:
-1 acidic (most hunters rarely use traps, warrior gorehowl usually doesn't matter or kills you)
+1 healing touch (saved me countless games against aggro, or even just healing up that 5/10 ancient back to full against rogues)
-1 yeti (you suggest that they are exchangeable depending on meta)
+1 stampeding kodo (really shines. kills divine shield taunts vs zoo and kills small hyenas or other small hunter beasts)
-1 starfall (against zoo, i typically cannot hold the board in the beginning, and when mana is finally ready for starfall, half of the minions are already buffed at 3 toughness)
+1 mark of the wild (shines on kodo, black knight after killing a taunt, keeper of the groves - rarely use it on an enemy minion)
-1 cairne (well, it's kind of neat. but druids tend to silence it, while the rushers ignore it because it doesn't have taunt - against druid, it's sometimes possible to copy it but as there are so many 4-power minions in druid decks, hitting it with a minion + hero power + starfall / bloodmage swipe is typically the way to go, as copy + silence costs 9)
+1 sunwalker (don't really like it but it has taunt. deadly shot always seems to hit it, and it's also a good black knight target vs control :/)
-1 ancient of lore (it often sits dead in the hand, and when you play it the 5/5 body doesn't really matter anymore and you use it for heal, netting you 0 card advantage)
+1 nourish (5 mana is ideal, as you can combine it with a druid of the claw, or innervate > ancient - never used it for mana)
What i thought about trying tomorrow, if the hunter spam keeps up:
-1 yeti (the yetis are cool, but they don't have taunt)
+1 abomination (maybe it helps me against zoo as they will at least lose their divine shields and go into swipe/starfall range)
Any ideas on what could be improved?
Video of the session here: http://www.twitch.tv/ellesar1/b/522373845
Downswing starts at about ~2:40:00
Feedback about improvements of playstyle is greatly appreciated - please include the relevant time in the video and be specific.
your deck is very similar to the one posted by CornPuff, the "easy legend" deck. I think i'll try out some of thes changes tomorrow.
Also just gonna say that RNGesus hates me. I rarely ever get innervate or wild growth in my starting hand or anywhere in the first 5-6 turns......fml
Hey, Asuryan gets the credit for sure cause I only changed 2 cards but I've been doing well with http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/46521-big-ramp-asuryan-nttarc-minor-change which I subbed out a Faceless Manipulator and a Chillwind Yeti for 2 Sunwalker. Works great.
-nttArc
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PremiumAgainst hunter, you often run into situations where you have 0 creatures on the board. You play one, they kill it. Therefore, kodo is better against them.
Against zoo, I seem to have the problem that I'm just way too slow at the start :-/
I'm not sure if a second sunwalker would help me much. Against zoo, it's definitely an improvement over a faceless (as faceless can only copy some crappy 2/4 taunts from the enemy - warlock typically clears out my own taunts in the turn after they are played or severely weakens them so they become worthless to copy), but faceless is just one of the best cards against many other setups.
My main problematic enemies are Shaman and Zoo because they tend to flood the board too quickly while having enough removal for my fewer creatures (soulfire, lightning bolt, hex etc).
Hunter is a bit better, the problem there is mainly that they have 2x deadly shot, 2x hunter's mark + 4x charge minions, 2x kill command, 1x silencing owl. This is plenty removal for our taunts.
One card that really let's things go out of control against me is Defender of Argus. While the shields are somewhat manageable, the +1/+1 is a major issue, as it pushes minions out of swipe / starfall / keeper range.
Is there any way we can have a stronger early game? What about -1 Ancient of War, +1 Harvest Golem / or getting the second yeti back?
Wow. No offense, but I couldn't disagree more. I almost always draw cards with it, so it's automatically 3-for-1.
If Shaman is only 4% of your metagame, just ignore it. It's not worth worrying about such a tiny problem.
I don't understand what you mean about Zoo's removal. They have exactly 2 removal cards: Soulfire and the other Soulfire. They often need to discard a card with it, plus throw another minion into the target (because all your minions are big), so they give you 3-for-1 advantage each time. Once they burn their two Soulfires, they have to throw their minions into your taunts. I don't see the problem there...
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PremiumJust played another session.
1. shaman - well, these games are lost anyway, not focussing on them
2. zoo - holded back killing an amani berserker to keep removals for more important target, then he flooded the board and the berserker became a 4/6 taunt that I copied, but got soulfired + attacked by a 2/2
3. aggro mage - missed lethal in the end as i was focussed on writing my previous post here ^^, but survived and managed to win this one
4. paladin - another mistake where i attacked before buffing my minion with +2/+2, but didn't matter and killed him with 19hp
5. rogue - got my ragnaros up before he could set up his combos - he couldn't kill it and conceded
6. priest - an early injured blademaster buffed to 9hp with PWS was hard to deal with, as I always was 1 mana short of the "optimal strategy" of copying and buffing the own copy (at 6 mana, costs 7), or mark + black knight (at 7 mana, costs 8) it. In the end, I could copy + black knight (at 8 mana, costs 9 - waited another turn) it as he gave it taunt by himself, but I was at 11 hp at this point of the game. Then, he played rag and had to trade my board. Played my rag, but it was too stupid to kill stuff, then he mind controlled it, I copied it and gave it taunt, but it was again too stupid to kill stuff - he removed it and i lost.
7. zoo - an early tazdingo (wild growth) + wrath on his knife juggler reset the board - a swipe killed the second wave of x/1 minions, an ancient of war died to a power overwhelming and a murloc, bloodmage + swipe killed the third wave of a doom guard and voidwalker, fourth wave got killed by the surviving bloodmage and hero power. From here, I could simply play a taunt every turn, use my healing touch, and win.
8. zoo - double innervated a druid of the claw on turn 1, wrathed his juggler on turn 2, wrath + coin + hero power scarlet crusader on turn 3, keeper of the groves + hit on flame imp + alpha wolf. Then came the harvest golem to stop my druid :( Played tazdingo but argent commander + argent squire killed it , harvest golem killed my druid, and soulfire my keeper. starfalled... he plays another commander, i meleehit + heal myself. second wolf comes out which i start with hero power. playing yeti + bgh for board presence. he plays shieldbearer, flame imp, doom guard, completely clears my board with the damaged wolf and doom guard... i play ancient of war, which he kills with a buffed doom guard and the argent commander. second doom guard comes out, i play sunwalker, he pops the shield with defender of argus and kills it with doom guard... and then he wins...
9. trap hunter - started by killing his 4/2 with a wrath instead of innervating out a druid, waited next turn with druid too to save innervate for ragnaros. turn 5 druid (killed by hunters mark + arcane shot), turn 6 ragnaros (he ignores and decides to focus on face), turn 7 druid + hero power his bird (now he decides to use mark + kill command on rag), turn 8 tazdingo + healing touch (he leeroys + uths my board, got two whelps now), ancient of war now, gg.
10. zoo - he got a void walker, an amani, a knife juggler, a flame imp, an alpha wolf, and a shattered sun cleric before i can play my first taunt. he silences the taunt and it's gg
11. druid - roflstomped him
12. druid - i always question why you would waste a silence for an own watcher Oo isn't this kind of a 2-for-1 for the opponent already? - win
13. face hunter - not drawn a single creature in the whole game except blood mage and faceless. lost
As this session went ok (7-6 - 53.85%), I think that one of the key points of advice I should take from the first page is this one:
Any best practices on how to detect when to stop? Something like "if you lose 3 times in a row vs hunter / zoo, wait an hour", or "if there are more than 3 hunters + zoo in the last 5 games, wait an hour", or even "after 12 games, wait an hour if win rate < 50%"? or similar rules?
I think that I'll go
-1 Faceless Manipulator (which I will definitely miss - but it's really worthless vs hunter or zoo)
+1 Yeti (one more 4-mana creature that can be necessarily improved with mark of the wild)
-1 Ancient of War (silenced often, and slower)
+1 Sunwalker (vs zoo, faster than ancient)
-1 Bloodmage Thalnos (yes, i know the card draw is great, but it is not good by its own, and when the card draw is really needed, i'm close to dead anyway)
+1 3/2 dmg-spamming thing (it sometimes soaks removal, and even coins and innervate turn into potential starfalls for free, plus it improves early game)
-1 Nourish (meh)
+1 Ancient of Lore (i think that i need another heal)
Any comments / suggestions for improvements? Help is appreciated!