Rise of Shadows Card Nerfs - What Do Pros Want To See Smacked?
IGN's Cam Shea got a chance to speak with a few of Hearthstone's pros at this past weekend's HCT World Championship and talked about card nerfs. Below you'll find our recap and you can read their thoughts it full here.
Card nerfs have been a very popular community topic post expansion launch, as they always are, though could it be different this time around? Here's what pros had to say about the Rise of Shadows set and any cards they think should get hit with the nerf bat.
- Ike thinks the meta hasn't fully progressed yet due to "sixteen of the best players ... [not] sharing anything"
- Justsaiyan says Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is a problem. Everyone is playing Warrior which means long games, he feels like not even playing mirrors. Boom is strong due to the DK rotation.
- Bunnyhoppor thinks Rogue is too strong. He also has this to say:
- Rogue opposition needs to have an answer for Waggle Pick or Raiding Party.
- Edwin VanCleef should be removed. He proposes moving Edwin to the Hall of Fame and making Preparation's effect a 2-cost reduction.
- Magic Carpet is not an issue right now but could be if Rogue gets nerfed.
- Possibly need to do something about Dr. Boom, Mad Genius because it might be healthy for player sentiment.
- Wants to see changes before Hearthstone Grandmasters begins as he doesn't want to see everyone only playing Rogue and Warrior.
- Hunterace thinks the biggest problem is EVIL Miscreant due to the Rogue pool being very strong. Bump the cost up to 4.
Proposed Nerf Targets
Some of these are conditionally, though they certainly echo community thoughts.
Your Thoughts
Are there any cards you think need to be hit with a nerf after these past few weeks of playing Rise of Shadows? Let us know down below.
Personally, I'm quite amazed Magic Carpet was even printed and will continue to quite enjoy the shenanigans in Zoolock while I still can. Increasing the cost seems like the most viable way to deal with it to keep the effect intact.
I also think that Augmented Elekk gives Warrior way too much power. Increasing its cost so it can remain a viable option for getting onto the field later in the game seems acceptable.
Rogues biggest problem I think is the wagglepick, backstab wagglepick on turn 4 kills every taunt minion you could play in the earlygame except mogushan warden and unpowered steambot, wagglepick should be a 2/2 weapon for 4 mana because even if it dealt 4 less damage it would still be run just for the combo interaction in tempo rogue anyway its that good an effect.
Kibler will end up being right about the basic + classic being a plague for the game. If you think about it and look back, every year when standart rotation happens tempo Rogue is the best or one of the best decks. Last year it was with Odd, the year before with Keleseth Shadowstep. And ofc new cards help fuel it but it is because of old cards like Leeroy and Edwin that it feels so dumb to lose to, ur like "ah this shit again".
100% this!
There will always be a pecking order of power for single cards, synergies, combinations, and counters. A Nerf to card X makes card Z better, leading to cries to nerf card Z 2 weeks later.
Nerfing cards sucks! Especially for F2P or anyone on a limited budget. So sure, pros DGAF b/c they have complete sets and have a different set of priorities but anyone not spending $150-200 a set is going to feel the impact.
And if you don't think F2P or players who don't go all out on spending matter, the player pool would shrink, the eyeballs on the game would reduce, and the game would slowly die. F2P folks watch Twitch too! Just like in other sports, there are huge amounts of fans that don't pay to see games or buy merch who help drive the sport in viewership and attention within pop culture.
You have to find counters and generally speaking we see a handful of decks that are strong against other strong decks yet weak to other strong decks, creating a bit of the rock-paper-scissors dynamic.
If people get tired of "stale metas" that's a different problem and could easily have a different solution than card nerfs. Maybe ladder is the problem. Maybe a lack of play modes that reward people with goodies is the problem. Maybe the very nature of having no interaction capabilities while it's your opponents turn is the problem.
Another way to address staleness isn't to change the cards, it's to change the rules. Want to slow the game down? All minions played start frozen. It changes the power of cards that summon other minions or do other things. There are tons of ways to change the rules to nudge things up and down in power. Heck, they could even create a rotating a temporary ban list to create more churn and variety. They could even have a monthly list and a weekly list.
There are a lot of much better and more creative solutions that allow the game to be enjoyed where people don't end up feeling like crap because they crafted 6k dust worth of cards to make a deck they thought they'd enjoy or be able to be "competitive" with, only to end up having 3 commons nerfed, destroying the viability of the deck, netting 240 dust and a bunch of epics/legs that drop several tiers in usability.
Have you ever thought that the problem is rotating and nerfing the counters?
If you still had doomguards or decent druid cards, there would not be this problem. Always the same cycle -> whining for nerfs, nerfs come, another class gets op, whining again, And always losing dust.
STOP nerfs, that's the problem and what keeps everyone buying new cards. ASK FOR BUFFS on the useless cards. The only problem with boom is that no new hero cards came out. Stop the nerf whining!
Another problem of Boom, is that he is made to "beat" or being at a similar level to the DK.
Now, that we don't have hero cards for every class, it's easy to get a punch in the face playing against it
And why not center on ask for Blizz to revert their decision of not printing DK's this year?
Why slash a good card making it worthless?
Even if not DK's, cards similar to Jaraxxus?
Since we are talking about nerfs, I would like to point out that the card Kingsbane was never actually nerfed. It was Leeching Poison that got nerfed. Therefore if you had recently crafted the deck (which used several legendaries and epics) you would get all of your 80 dust back from those two Leeching Poison cards. Kingsbane was shadow nerfed.
Dr. Boom hero card -nerf
Edwin -no nerf
Magic Carpet- no nerf
EVIL Miscreant -nerf
Why they didn't rotate Leeroy is kind of beyond me. They've nerfed two significant parts of zoo that they said give the deck too much reach, and yet Leeroy hangs around and gives Rogue with Wagglepick so much that you basically have to stay above 20 health with Waggle up or you very well could be dead next turn. Nerf Boom hero, rotate Leeroy ahead of schedule, we're done.
I don't see how long games are a bad thing for the game, I prefer that to quick face games.
Can you buff Lorewalker Cho please? And other cards from classic, that never have seen any play.
Change them or buff them. Just make them playable.
It's so unsatisfying to have so many dead cards..
Yes, BUFFS!!!!
nerfs < buffs
I think new Hall of Fame targets are Leeroy and VanCleef:
Generally: Dr. Boom is too strong because of the rush for the Mechs. It takes a class with lot of removal and dials it to eleven while giving them the board. As soon as winning or loosing is defined by one card, there is a problem. Making it more expensive will not change that though and taking away the rush for mechs would be a way to hard hit.
Playing vs rogue just feels broken - I run shitton of healing, remove most of his threats but endup dying anyway
either due to weapon+leeroy bounce, or just due to leeroy shadowstep leeroy or because of edwin
meh.
Right now the only semi-viable control counter to rogue is control warrior(with 2x weapon project and harrison) and even this fails sometimes because rogue can tutor his weapons and warrior can't tutor his removals...
Playing just warrior stone is boring as fuck. And blizzard killed pretty much every other control deck with so many cards rotating out.
edwin should give +1/+1
raiding party should cost 4-5
prep be at 1 mana
leeroy should go to HOF
the real problem is raiding party+perp it is so good cuz pirate cost low which good for aggro or tempo
for edwin is balanced even if it become 3/12/12 it very rare on turn 3
and waggle pickaxe it just too wrong to give it to the class that can use lerroy easily and buff there weapon
This post belongs to SALT threat (as a lot of local jokers would write if this was not post but new thread).
Anyway I agree with Rogue. I think that class should be removed completely. They are using same core cards since I started to play HS half decade ago and it feels still the same to play against it. That cheap spells are too powerful, 3 mana 33 deal 2 damage is too powerful, leeroy is huge problem for years. Ha-ha pirate 2/1 charge is a problem for years. Sap is huge problem and probably most annoying card in whole hearthstone. 0 mana deal 2 damage is a problem in early game. 2 mana deal 4 damage is a problem. Edwin is kinda ok, I don't mind him. Perfectly designed card in my opinion (if there are 3 mana removals in game or silence effects). Rogue needs complete rework and around 8 cards in HOF.
lmao
This
Myra's Unstable Element
Prep should cost 1 mana, EVIL miscreant should be 4 health
Nerf the Twinspells - mainly Mage & Druid, increase mana costs.