Rise of Shadows Card Nerfs - What Do Pros Want To See Smacked?
IGN's Cam Shea got a chance to speak with a few of Hearthstone's pros at this past weekend's HCT World Championship and talked about card nerfs. Below you'll find our recap and you can read their thoughts it full here.
Card nerfs have been a very popular community topic post expansion launch, as they always are, though could it be different this time around? Here's what pros had to say about the Rise of Shadows set and any cards they think should get hit with the nerf bat.
- Ike thinks the meta hasn't fully progressed yet due to "sixteen of the best players ... [not] sharing anything"
- Justsaiyan says Dr. Boom, Mad Genius is a problem. Everyone is playing Warrior which means long games, he feels like not even playing mirrors. Boom is strong due to the DK rotation.
- Bunnyhoppor thinks Rogue is too strong. He also has this to say:
- Rogue opposition needs to have an answer for Waggle Pick or Raiding Party.
- Edwin VanCleef should be removed. He proposes moving Edwin to the Hall of Fame and making Preparation's effect a 2-cost reduction.
- Magic Carpet is not an issue right now but could be if Rogue gets nerfed.
- Possibly need to do something about Dr. Boom, Mad Genius because it might be healthy for player sentiment.
- Wants to see changes before Hearthstone Grandmasters begins as he doesn't want to see everyone only playing Rogue and Warrior.
- Hunterace thinks the biggest problem is EVIL Miscreant due to the Rogue pool being very strong. Bump the cost up to 4.
Proposed Nerf Targets
Some of these are conditionally, though they certainly echo community thoughts.
Your Thoughts
Are there any cards you think need to be hit with a nerf after these past few weeks of playing Rise of Shadows? Let us know down below.
Personally, I'm quite amazed Magic Carpet was even printed and will continue to quite enjoy the shenanigans in Zoolock while I still can. Increasing the cost seems like the most viable way to deal with it to keep the effect intact.
I also think that Augmented Elekk gives Warrior way too much power. Increasing its cost so it can remain a viable option for getting onto the field later in the game seems acceptable.
The real problem which has been talked about to exhaustion is the the Evergreen set needs to rotate. We are really seeing how badly some classes base sets are and how much expansions have propped them up for the past two years.
Some of these cards though aren't really an issue and are more just a problem because of how a meta skews. If all the classes were at least some what competitive in level it would be okay. The worst part is that this is only going to get worse because of how the new format is a one class setup. Most of the classes in game are just going to be entirely neglected because they aren't able to compete with the OP one or two that everyone will play.
A mana adjustment to prep or a change to it's mana reduction on play would indirectly nerf Edwin, given that it's when he's played early that is the biggest issue (turn 2 on coin 8/8 is rare, but it happens. Prep raiding party Eddy on 3 is more frequent). A raiding party, pick or evil miscreant adjustment seems much more appropriate. Like many others, I'd hate to see the classic and basic sets be further diluted in quality. I'm all for a Mad Genius and/or Elysiana nerf as well.
If they HOF Leeroy I will quit this game forever
he's the single oldest card I own I think. I mean yeah there are probably some commons I have that I've had since the start, but Leeroy is the only card I crafted when I started playing, that I still have now.
It's a great card for budget players. If they do anything to him I want him HoF'd though as I'd not want to dust him to get my dust back. that way you can keep the card and get the dust.
It would also kill a lot of aggressive decks off though. I mean there are other cards that do similar things, it's just they don't cost 5 mana and do 6 attack the turn they're played.
leeroy + soulfire is nearly a 3rd of the health total. I think it's a respectable finisher for Zoo and would not like to see that vanish. I mean there is no true replacement for it. and the cards already been nerfed to death.
Really I think people have gotten used to a world without charge, and they will try and get rid of all good charge cards eventually.
Blizzard HATES charge, they have tried getting rid of all the good charge units going back to Arcane Golem. Doomguard was the latest death in the family in standard. I have no doubt Leeroy is next because they can't nerf it anymore. King Krush would definitely be on the block if it didn't cost so much. But even if there is only ever ONE charge unit in standard, it should be Leeroy as the most unique card.
If they hof or nerf any of rogue class cards such as prep or Van Cleef rogue will lose basically what made this class fun and it will make me quit hs forever as rogue was the only class I had fun with in the past years.
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius ,......ok let me say it, i dont see how you nerf this, this will be a hated opinion, but the card is fair, what is bad ¡s the fact that is one of the unique remaining hero cards when 6 of the clases does not have anything, but by it self is balanced
Edwin VanCleef HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....oh wait it was serious?, come on man clasic class legendaries are out of discusion when we talk of HoF, just you can't, blizzard never replaces the cards non time, you would let rogue witouh it's classic legendary, could be a winning card, but also is a risk play, cause you get just anihilated if your oponent has an answer (unless you are a miracle rogue who cuold keep a gadgetzan autioneer from last turn in which case you were already in a good position). Sorry but its a nerf or nothing for this card.
Magic Carpet well, 4 mana or less health for the card will do the job.
EVIL Miscreant i have to congratulate blizzard here, most of people thougth this card would be garbage, i don't see a nerf here, just deal with it until the lackey poll grows on future expansions, bring no that good lackeys and makes this card worse.
get rid of all mechs have charge for a start. or print hero cards for every class with power levels in line.
you know how you know doom is OP right now, because no one ever mentions hagatha or zul'jin. in fact I've read people say on here recently that warrior has the only hero cards right now, completely forgetting the one before it and the one that came after it.
Did we not get a new one with LoS? I thought priest was getting that troll?
Clearly you haven't been playing this game very long or you would know they have HOF base set legendary cards in the past. The problem with Cleef is that if you don;t have that magic silver bullet answer in hand when he comes down it's a GG. Maybe you think that's "cool" but actually that is just bad design. The only reason he is not gone yet is because for 2 years Cleef hasn't been playable.
Dr Boom is just like you said, A super powered hero card left in a meta with no other hero cards to compete against it. So the answer is either give everyone a hero or remove the hero cards completely. The only nerf to the card that makes sense makes it useless in standard and a dead card in wild. Rotating it keeps it at least playable in wild and balances standard.
The only card that needs to seriously be looked at in rogue is Prep. If giving druid free ramp was to much then why is giving free mana to Rogue okay? they both can utilize that mana for explosive starts and mid/late game effect. Nerfing one and not the other has never made any sense.
Lmao Cleef is playable any time in any expansion, all you need is prep for him to work but since rogue got other strong cards people think that he is the problem, actually play the game maybe ?
Dude, the rotated legendaries are all neutral, i was talking about class legendaries, blizzard never replaced nuetral spots on classic set, and literaly takes halfo of a year or more to replace class cards, an Edwin rotation means rogue losing it's classic legendary for a while and thats something that blizzard wont do.
I agree that Dr. Boom should get nerfed to 9 mana.
Also, I have a problem with that Waggle Pick, Leeroy Combo. Because it can happen from an empty board. Maybe nerf Waggle Pick a bit (only return a random minion to hand without reducing the cost or so) or make Leeroy a 6 Mana card.
Edwin would be still a really strong early game if it gives +2/+1. Rouge shouldn't lose all aggressive tools, but there need to chances to counter it.
And like many say Barnes or Eternal Servitude needs a nerf. Maybe make Barnes only summon a minion with max. 6mana.
I think carpet is fine. Zoo is good but not too strong and hunter or rouge also have other ways to boost minions.
I think EVIL Miscreant and Leeroy Jenkins should be nerfed. These cards are just too strong with the shadowstep and wagglepick. Unlike to these, you can react to Edwin: silence or kill. I don't have a problem with losing to 20/20 Edwin because I didn't draw any answer. Huge Edwin happens rarely.
Boom and Hagatha hero cards are good value generators over time. They make control playstyle fun. In my opinion, only bad hero card is Zuljin because he can swing a dead lost game all the way around.
Magic Carpet. They must be joking. When did anyone lose a game to Magic Carpet?
that's the whole point of zul'jin though?
you can't say that the other two are fine because they suit control decks that you like, then scream "NERF" the more agressive option that counters you.
nothing wrong with Zul'jin. the only OP Hero is Boom. Discover mech, mchs have rush, 8 armour up, 3 disposble trade bots, damage to face etc etc.
doom does the lot.
and tbh I wouldn't even call for nerfs on doom because I just don't think we should nerf cards based on a new rotation meta when theres another 3 sets to come out this year. seems stupid. We know this is a bare and lopsided meta and it always will be while the format stays the same.
I think temporary nerfs are really what should be put into place. cards being restored at a later date when there are more cards.
They do not nerf nearly regularly enough for it to be even close to fair. classes and archetypes get decimated based on a p3 month paradigm that's constantly shifting.
been saying this for years now.
either keep on top of balancing cards, or leave them the fuck alone. The lifespan of any one meta paradigm is so short, that it really doesn't matter. it's all going to change in 3 months again anyway.
So yes, I think temp nerfs would be the right way to handle things, not completely destroy somebodies decks and leave them destitute. either dust be left with dirt-tier stuff.
This is why I have started trying to play decks that are not as popular now. sick of my collection and decks being ruined by nerfs.
Like great, they offer full dust back, what about the rest of the deck that is bad now that one card got nerfed? yeah exactly.
the only reason they nerf anything is to make more money.
That nerf to Preparation just makes it a worse Counterfeit Coin. And leave Edwin alone. Rogue is a problem, but I don't think it's the miscreant. The problem is the amount of burst damage available in one turn with Waggle Pick and Leeroy, and being able to draw the weapon and dread corsairs consistently with Raiding party. I would look at waggle pick first, it's too good of a weapon. Warrior is also a problem, and the main reason is Dr. Boom, mad genius because the other DKs rotated. If it were up to me, I would remove Archivist Elysiana from the game entirely, but increasing her cost to disable shuffling hit back seems reasonable enough. Conjurer's calling is also a problem with mountain giant, as no class other than warrior can answer it before turn 6.
Conjurer's Calling to 5 mana, Raiding Party to 5 mana, Archivist Elysiana to 10 mana and remove it from it's own discover pool, remove Mech tag from Omega Devastator, change health of Magic Carpet to 3, go back in time and make a hero card for one of the classes that don't have one, and finally, Barnes to 6 mana so people would stop bitching about wild for a whole 5 seconds.
Isn't mech hunter statistically the #1 deck in the game right now? No changes to that deck?
that's because it's great against warrior, and warrior is the only thing that really counters rogue.
that's what a meta is. a temporary state created using the available cards at our disposal.
if rogue wasn't as OP, then warrior wouldn't be as popular and then hunter wouldn't be on top with winrates.
Agree with all nerfs. Boom is crazy (aura+ op hp). Raiding party is reliable [4.2÷6/6 for 4 mana]. Edwin=8/8 on turn 3.
Don't forget about tokens and retarded mech hunter.
My thoughts are that there are just too strong tools for Warrior and Rogue class.
Rogue:
Raiding party is too strong in the synergy with Preperation. should be raised to 5 mana. Even Sprint is card for 7 mana that draws 4 cards, so draw 2 cards and the weapon that you need for turn 4 - this is just insane.
Waggle pick - The synergy with Dread Corsair is just too strong, especiall if you have drawn the Dread Corsair with Raiding Party. Idea for change - reduce the attack of the Waggle Pick to 3.
Warrior:
No control deck can compete with Dr. Boom mad genius Deathknight. Even if I plat Warlock and change to Jaraxxus, I cannot win against this rush mech synergy and keep losing the board. Recommendation for change - Upgrade the mana cost of the DK to 9 mana. that way it will not allow that early board control and loss of tempo from the opponent.
Mage:
Conjurers calling is just too strong and too easy to activate. Idea for change - cancel the Twinspell option of the card.
Other cards that deserved to be nerfed as a Wild player are all the Resurrect Big Priest cards. If Blizzard doesn't find a way to fix Barnes and all the stupid Ressurection shaninigans Wild mode is doomed forever.