Hearthpwn

Wow - so much to hate all in one expac!  We have the potential for some early p2w, we have some extra-flexible cards which are shockingly bad for some classes and very good for others, we have hated cards coming back AND we still have the broken cards from the current set!  Whizzbang sure does know how to treat us in his workshop!

The returning core set cards are some of the most hated and historically problematic cards in the game.  Who else is looking forward to a 5/7 charge minion which gets to summon a 5/7 rush minion while doing 8 damage to your stuff (face) all for the sum of 5 mana?  Sure seems fun to me...

Leeeroy Jenkins......interactivity at it's finest.  It's sure going to be fun to face a 16/16 (or more!) windfury charge minion - he's balanced though - he summons some 1/1's.  There's also Southsea Deckhand for a nice cheap neutral charge too.

But dont worry Priest players - Ship's Chirurgeon is coming back!!!

This feels like we're at the "cashing in" stage of a games life.  Produce a bunch of overpowered broken stuff that enough people will lap up to make as much money as you can before the game dies.  They're pushing players away with every expac - this one will be no different imo. (clearly I have no numbers - but if you look at streamers as a proxy they are definitely doing other things now and they make money playing the game).  Without some serious changes I think I'm done - there's very little room for fun left in this game now and it really looks like it's going to get worse.

It's not just Brann.  There are plenty of OTK's from other classes, so you know if you're playing a bog standard control priest that you will almost certainly lose, as there's no way to consistently gain enough armour.

I think the main issue with control priest is that it doesn't consistently do well against aggro, it consistently loses against tempo decks (like Excavate Rogue), it get's out controlled by most control decks and it can do very little against combo decks ("kill them before..." isn't viable for control priest decks most of the time).  Also consider that many OTK decks are now basically tempo decks with an OTK as backup and you can see why priest struggles.

People hate on Aman'thul and I get it - he's a frustrating card which generates huge value and can interrupt some board based win conditions by poofing the minions (and you usally face multiple copies of him). In all honesty though he often doesn't really do a great deal or he gets instantly stolen/copied.  At least he costs mana to play though (as everything does for priest).

At this point it feels like every other class can do what priest does except they can usually do it better.  Priest can win games, but I would say nearly every victory feels hard fought and you're always waiting for your opponent to shaft you.

I don't really buy that the Dev's dont know in advance that the mechanics they create will be problematic.  They've literally had Bran - Astalor (or Denathrius) as a combo already.  It wasn't fun.  Yet they've just done it again.  It will be just as anoying now as it was back then if the deck it was attached to wasn't a bit shit in the current meta. 

It's also not like the card combo's are tough to come up with.  They're often two card combo's.  If the devs can't see they'll be OP, they shouldn't be working on Hearthstone.  We literally have a deck with a 3 mana - "gain 20 armour and draw a card" combo.  The second they released Pendant of Earth someone posted a deck with naga giants in it. 

The cynical side of me thinks it's just bait to make people buy the OP deck, then they'll print a counter card at the next expac. (or nerf an ancillary card which kills the deck but doesn't refund a ton of dust).  Everyone was super excited about how OP Sargeras, the Destroyer was going to be.  It created an un-counterable, end of game effect which was going to outvalue all control decks.  Control warlock was back (sorta). Then we get Reno - the first card to remove "portals" and Sargeras, the Destroyer is suddenly shit in half your match-ups.

Even if druid does get nerfed - it's been a shitshow since the miniset launched.  Most of the new cards never see play because they're not remotely viable against the OP stuff (or even if they are they're in a class which isn't favoured).  Dual class cards just rub salt in the wounds as they're usually only prolematic in one of the classes.  If they nerf Pendant of Earth priest will probably just get even worse.  It won't make as much differnece to Druid because they don't need to bother about mana anyway.

In all honesty this mini-set feels like the beginning of the end of Hearthstone to me.  The Devs have run out of ideas and are trying to milk the user base before the game gets version 2.

I personally feel it just isn't fun anymore.  I don't mean that I no longer like the concept of the game, but everything about it just seems broken.

It's hyper aggro against broken decks, and mana seems to be optional these days.  I mean who doesn't love playing against a druid that plays 20 + mana of stuff on turn 6?  Left a 1/1 alive - here's 20+ damage to face.

For me the single biggest issue in Hearthstone is mana cheat.  Mana is meant to be the resource that all cards are balanced around - better cards = more mana.  It's a tried and tested formula, and it works.

What doesn't work insisting that some classes have to follow those rules while others don't.   I get that Blizz try to be creative with cards like Thadeus, and to be honest if he was always a 10 mana play I think he would be fine.  But he isn't, and you know why?  Mana cheat.  Except in this case it's mana cheat into more mana cheat.  Cards that have conditional mana reductions (e.g. Chained Guardian, The Garden's Grace ) are great in principle, but in practice they're too easy to discount playing cards that you're always going to be playing anyway.  Similarly, cards that have a downside to justify their reduced cost are just overpowered cards when the downside becomes an upside - looking at you warlock.  Sure - they limit deck design, but Blizz's design philosophy basically creates the decks for you these days anyway with "packages" (e.g. plagues, excavate etc.).

Which classes are dominating right now?  Rogue, Druid , Warlock and Paladin (with some DK and DH in there for good measure).  All of these classes have mana cheat in abundance.  I know Velarok Windblade didn't really see much play when he required 3 cards to activate, but only requiring 1 card is broken.  A 3/6 charge "Discover a spell with some mana cheat" that can be bounced for more mana cheat! 

Imo they need to re-invent the game but i don't see how they do that without a complete refresh.

p.s. I view overpowered, unbalanced cards as a mana cheat as well.  It's not the worst form of mana cheat in Hearthstone, but it amounts to the same thing in practice.  You're getting something more powerful than you should for the cost.

p.p.s I'm not against all forms of mana cheat - it can add an intersting dimension.  What I don't agree with is the current prevalence in the game and the uneven distribution between the classes

p.p.p.s the game is also far more polarised than it ever was imo, with match-ups that are literally unwinable with some classes.  Playing control and you match against mill druid - might as well just concede because barring some massive misplay you're not going to win.

Whether it's the best deck out there or not slightly misses the point.  A deck can be hard countered by another deck and the whole meta is those two decks.  Neither is the best deck, the winrates are 50% - but neither deck is particularly balanced and this is not a healthy state for the game to be in.

The problem with warrior decks (and OTK deck's in general) is that there's such a limited counterplay (other than kill them before they OTK) that any other control/slow decks have no space to compete because they will inevitably lose to the OTK.  Mill druid actually falls into this category as well imo - it's not an OTK deck, but it might as well be from the perspective of the non-driud.

If Blizz was consistent they should nerf Brann.  I don't have the stats, but I would wager he has a higher "played winrate" than the frogman did and he obviously got nerfed even though the deck wasn't particularly strong (and even when there was a universal tech card that isn't shit).

This meta would definitely have more warrior if it wasn't for the degenerate aggro decks that are also rampant.  But that's a problem as well. 

If aggro gets a non-shit hand the game is over well before turn 6.

Honestly, at that this stage the whole game feels like a shit show.  I just got hit for 20 charge damage on turn 6 by a druid who had gained 20 million armour and had 11 mana.  He also played the 0 mana 8/8 in there for a spicy 28 to face.  My poor little shaman had some 2/3's on board and the limitations of only having six mana with cards which actually cost mana...

If only I had played aggro....

 p.s. Bran-astalor is also extremely un-fun to play against (but we've  known that ever since we had to endure Bran-Astalor...)

I hate everything about the design of the card. 

A) it's super highrolly - get it on 6 - win. Don't lose.

B) it's going to encourage DK and plagues as the counter deck.  This game should not be paper scissor stone...(or if it does it should be between dech archetypes)

C) Didnt we already establish that multiple Astalor battlecry's was extremely un-fun?

It does feel a little like they don't playtest anything...

p.s. druid also seems busted

I'm really glad they've addressed the issues in paladin to try and give them a viable deck.  Now they have sticky minions and burst!  Leave a minion alive without a taunt for a cool 20 damage as a minimum with 2 x The Garden's Grace and the new windfury card.

It's going to be so much fun..../s

This game needs less burst imo, but here we are.

"Alright - deck intro time..."

So - I don't know whether shaman needed a nerf or not, but the fact that Sif remains untouched in the game tells me that Blizz don't have a clue what this game needs (obviously from my perspective)

it's a game where intereaction with the opponent is basically nil (outside of minion trades).  A game where the only skill element left is how you play the cards you have in hand, and read the cards the opponent has or is likely to have (and they've gutted the latter because of the prevelance of discover and random effects).

Yet they leave a card/deck which easily enables an OTK from hand using any old shite you've discovered along the way (all while maitaining tempo and playing for board).  It's nonsense, and from my perspective completely anti-fun.

The best bit is that it's not unique to Sif - there are now plenty of fun sucking OTK's in the game.  Just when you think you've stabilised on turn 6 - boom. Dead. I would rather lose zoolock any day of the week.  A good old honest aggro deck - with minions and everything!

But frogs....NOOOO...we cant have frogs...(and the damage that goes with em!)

I have never seen more than 6 or 7 frogs.  That's 12/14 damage that may or may not have gone face. 

"An abomination" - I hear you say...or not.  "But we have weapon tech - it's tradable"  Indeed it is young padawan.

Yet the powers that be decree - no more frogs...

Ribbitt....

Personally I think one of the problem cards is still Order in the Court.  It just gives far too much consistency and removes the natural variance that should be inherent in a card game, paticularly with a high impact card like The Countess.  Imo it should be a higher mana cost so that a larger number of turns are spent with the natural variance of the draw and there's a significant tempo loss associated with re-ordering your deck.

The other issue is The Garden's Grace (often) being zero mana and the combination with Keeper's Strength - either to buff the minion doing the damage or to prevent another one from the "symmetrical" damage.  You basically can't let them keep a minion no the board.

Finally Horn of the Windlord shouldn't be able to go face imo. It's a very powerful removal tool (6 mana - remove 4 minions is excellent) and it can also be used for burst when combo'd. 

I'm not suggesting all these changes, but I think what they've done probably wont be enough (though it obviously will impact the win rate slightly).

Multi-Shot cannot hit the same minion.  Text is the same.

I kind of agree, mostly because it makes balancing certain effects on neutral cards (like inspire) pretty much impossible, limiting design space.

Other than that I don't mind it being 1 mana. In fact I'm quite happy to see a vanilla hero power that's actually useful and gameplay-defining in modern Hearthstone, rather than just something you use when you have mana to spare and have no impact on how you build your deck or play the game (Priest, Druid, Paladin, etc).

Fun design card which unfortunately leads to very polarising meta. Meta is now Kazakusan druid beating all slower decks, agro decks trying to rush druid and control decks farming these aggressive archetypes.

In the last VS report was said that it is probably the most polarised meta since quest rogue Ungoro meta. The matches are like you either win or lose (30/70,70/30).  Stormwind questlines were even less polarised.

I like Kazakusan, but I don't think the current form of this card or druid, in general, will keep fun for me for a long time. Hoping for some changes in a week or two.

Quote from parishbishop >

I dont know what you can be referencing? Miss what? I played the card, buddy played missiles, and the minions I drew after Vanndar were not discounted. Its pretty str8 forward.

You played Dark Inquisitor Xanesh, Vanesh wasn't the lowest cost card in your deck when you played it so the battlecry never activated. And only two of the missiles hit Vanesh, you had Fleethoof Pearltusk on the board.

A few things first:

There are three somewhat overlapping modes: Classic, Wild and Standard.

Classic is the game from 2014. Cards are frozen with their stats and abilities at that point in time. Unlikely to ever be touched again in terms of balancing or updates. Cards you have from that period of time will be available to use. Crafting and dusting will affect other modes.

Standard is the current format that features the last two years of expansions plus the Core set. The Core set is a free set of cards containing Basic and Classic cards as well as some selected cards from other expansions. This set rotates once per year, giving Blizzard some way of balancing what is available for everyone in addition to the expansions. Expansions rotate to Wild as a set all cards released per year (all three expansions and all three mini sets) after the two year period. Expect periodic balance changes with full dust values for changed cards (exceptions apply). Mini sets are additional cards released roughly at expansion mid point to shake up the meta.

Wild is where all cards end up in and where all (except one) cards are available for use. Less frequent balance changes. Cards in Wild share a slot with Classic and for their golden forms also with the Core set. If you dust something here from the Classic set, you will lose it in the Classic mode. Although the Core set is free, it's only limited for the duration of the year. If you dust something that is also available in the Core set, you will still be able to use it for that duration of time, but it will be gone with the rotation.

Another change is that we don't get gold from quests any more and the introduction of the reward track. Completing quests and playing yield experience that let you advance through the track with different rewards per level until 100. From then on you will just receive gold until the cap at level 400. You can buy the Tavern Pass for some additional cosmetics and an experience boost.

I assume you got the free deck promotion? Which deck did you pick? Also watching the currently running Grandmaster tournament might help you understand how some of the decks work.

I think giving support to odd/even decks a mistake. The payoff for handicapping yourself already exists: upgrading your hero power. Creating cards that increases this payoff tends to create a situation in that odd/even decks are way stronger that it's vanilla counterparts.

 But don't take my opinion too seriously: I think the introduction of the odd/even mechanic a stupid move for the game.