• 1

    posted a message on Demon Hunter was a failure.

    Full disclosure - I hate the DH class, but always try to be impartial and objective in things, so here's my two cents.

    What counts as a failure?  Plenty people play it, so it's no a failure on that front.  If you assume there's only a small number of deck arcehtypes (control, aggro, tempo, combo) there's no reason to think that it would (or should) be different from those.  The issue in this regard is that the only viable deck appears to be tempo (but is that any different from priest who can only really play control?).

    Where I think it does fall down (aside from the OP cards that I still think remain) is that the random generated cards might be too predictable.  Take Cobalt Spellkin - he only has a choice of 6 spells which gives a pretty good chance of getting whatever you were looking for.   Compare that with mage who has 12 one mana cards (discounting quests) in standard and you can see where the issue lies.  Aside from SHaman (who only has 7 one mana spells in standard) all the other classes have much more variability.

    I think this limited deck choice create the main issue with the class.  They just don't have enough cards to flesh out some other decent decks.  I would love for "big demon" DH to be a thing, but it isn't.  There just aren't enough cards to make it work.

    I think after a couple of expansions and a few nerfs cough * Skull of Gul'dan, Blade Dance * cough it will seem like it's just another class.

    I do think the one mana hero power might problematic in the future though. Its fine balance wise compared to all the others, but it probably pushes the class too far towards tempo based decks in the same way that the hunter hero power pushes decks towards the aggro/face decks. That in itself might limit the options for the class.



    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on The RNG mechanism isn't really Random?
    Quote from OldenGolden >>

    Boy, people do love the phrase "confirmation bias" on this site, don't they? So much easier than actually considering the possibility that the way "random" is programmed could be something other than true random. The best is when they want you to have documentation on 10000 games played to support your theory, whereas they just throw "confirmation bias" out there for everything without actually looking into anything.

    I think it IS ridiculous to get that many Kargaths, and that it very likely has something to do with the way it is programmed. Dunno why people think that's so far-fetched.

    The only way to disprove the idea of confirmation bias would be to collect a large enough sample of data to do an analysis on.  I'm not going to do that.  You're also just throwing out "deliberate programming" without actually looking into it.  While I don't have any idea about how Blizzard code their random stuff I suspect it's something as simple as:

    1) create database susbset containing all possiblities for the given constraint (i.e. minion costing 4 mana)

    2) count the number of entries in that subset

    3) generate "random" number within the bounds of the number of entries

    4) return the minion selected.

    How the system generates the random part is anyones guess and only Blizzard really know, but there are lots of ways to generate random (or psuedo random) numbers. My suspicion is that they've used the easiest because if you were asked to code something like that why wouldn't you do the easiest thing?  Sure you could make an arugment that they've biased it to make cool cards occure more often in the hope that people craft/buy them, but again, no one but Blizzard knows.

    I've pasted the first paragraph from Wiki on ramdom numbers in case anyone is interested. 

    Random number generation (RNG) is a process which, through a device, generates a sequence of numbers or symbols that cannot be reasonably predicted better than by a random chance. Random number generators can be true hardware random-number generators (HRNGS), which generate random numbers as a function of current value of some physical environment attribute that is constantly changing in a manner that is practically impossible to model, or pseudo-random number generators (PRNGS), which generate numbers that look random, but are actually deterministic, and can be reproduced if the state of the PRNG is known.


    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 11

    posted a message on The RNG mechanism isn't really Random?

    I believe this is called confirmation bias and that, counterintuitively, the odds aren't actually 1 in 10000 but only 1 in 100.  I'm not a statistician (but I have studies some stats), but the first event "doesn't count" unless you're already looking for it in advance.  The explaination here is that there will be lots of times that the opponent (or you) doesn't get a Kargath, but you don't register and take note of these occurrences because nothing intersting happened.  Once you get the first Kargath you're now interested in what the next one is, but because you only took note when you got Kargath you can't count that first event in the probability.

    I probably haven't explained that very well - like I said I'm not a statistician.

    There was a really interesting article about Paul the psychic octopus (if you remember he was an octopus that predicted world cup scores alledgedly) on the website understanding uncertainty where this phenomenon is explained in more detail than I can understand!

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Disapointed in Hearthstone now
    Quote from Platy >>
    Quote from lv426a11

    Warrior - two varients Bomb and Big.  Bomb warrior is close to turtle mage in terms of interaction.  Remove minions, place bombs, repeat and hopefully watch the oponent slowly die with nothing they can do - bnous points if the weapon attack goes face.  Big variant - cheat out large minions early.  Doesn't work very well in the current meta and is also heavily dependant on the order you draw your cards.

    Rogue - mostly face. Deck strategy - me go face and draw my whole deck.  You cant target my minions so they nearly all get one attack in on your face.  I never run out of cards in hand, but sometimes I still like to draw more through the secret passage. You play taunt - me sap and go face.  Did I mention I go face

    Funny why people keep saying there is nothing you can do against bomb warriors. I play highlander priest and I win by teching in both ooze and sticky fingers. Sticky finger is better than ooze as the weapon stolen is not considered as destroyed so opponents cannot get it back via the 4/2 pirate. There are also cards that you can use to get rid of bombs in your deck. And lastly, as a priest the easiest solution is to fill your hand and just watch cards burn. Especially after gala, you can play a card and generate a card every turn, while maintaining full hand.

    Rogue is easy. Just use aoe. Who said you cannot target means u must take damage. 

    So re: bomb warrior - you add two cards which lower your winrate against pretty much every other deck one of which you absolutely have to draw and play by turn 5 to make it worthwhile (and have no means to do so as priest).  Sounds like a top strategy to me.  I've even used Wyrmrest Purifier in priest against bomb warrior and while it can help you still need to draw it and it's difficult to use effectively as they have potential for so many bombs and it's a completely dead/detrimental card in every other matchup.  I will say though, watching for the puzzled pause after they drop Blastmaster Boom after you've used Wyrmrest Purifier is very satisfying.  Using Galakrond for Priest is pretty much the only strategy you have as priest against bomb warrior and even then you need to draw Gala early as you can't build a hand and answer board threats at the same time (and if you don't have Galakrond you're just burning cards and can't play any, which probably means the ooze and stickyfinger you teched in are getting burned.)

    As for Rogue and AoE - of course you can use AoE but unless the rogue is saving up stealthed minions for card draw with Greyheart Sage they're still going to get a hit in (unless you use your AoE on a single minion which is a waste imo).


    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Disapointed in Hearthstone now

    To all the people saying stop playing - that's obviously an option for everyone and may be what I choose to do.  But that's not to say I shouldn't be alllowed to have a discussion.  Also, maybe I have a diffent definition of "salt" but I don't feel this is a salt thread.  I'm not complaining about an "OP" card that I happened to lose to and I'm not particularly angry about losing against these decks (and often I beat these decks).  My point is just that I think Hearthstone seems to be moving towards becoming a psuedo single player game where your actions matter less than your opponents.

    As for the people discussing RNG and saying I should play chess, I don't mind a little RNG, particularly the sort of RNG that can be "controlled".  For example, Rag could be played around by loading your board with minions to make it less likely he hits the best target.  I am absolutely not talking about card draw RNG, which for most classes can be mitigated by including card draw and building a balanced deck. 

    What I dislike is the "discovered by" >  "discovered by" > etc.  You get the idea.  It's not a rare occurence and while I'm sure it mixes things up for the person playing the cards (or the viewers if the game is being streamed), it's extremely un-fun to play against.  You can't play around it, there's no skill aspect to it and it can turn a game on it's head just like that.  As I said before I think a degree of RNG is OK but the extent to which games can be decided now by who generated the best cards is daft. 

    Finally - to the person who said that we have a diverse meta and I'm complaining - I'm not complaining about the diversity of the classes represented, and obviously the ideal scenario would be to have a balanced distribution of classes in every meta.  But let me ask you - if all classes are represented in the meta and they're all playing aggro does that represent success?  To me we have a situation similar to that at the moment.  A mix of gimmicky, highroll, uninteractive decks and face decks. 


    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Disapointed in Hearthstone now
    Quote from Nevermore00 >>

    All I can say is you really point out the negative perspective on all the decks you mentioned (pretty much the meta) but I enjoy a couple of those decks and in my opinion is varied enough that when I play my deck I am usually going to face multiple decks.  Can you name a time in hearthstone that you didn't face a bunch of either overpowering control or aggro that ended up being fairly dominant?  I'll say this, hearthstone has always been hearthstone and while some elements have grown or diminished, there will always be the ability to be negative and find it unenjoyable (I took 3 months off and came back a short time ago). So step away.  Nobody is forcing you to play.  Voice your complaints (like this), discuss as you like, but since they plan stuff out well in advance, nothing is going to change much for half a year, so check back in and see if it's fun for you. Otherwise, do something else with your time.

    I pointed out the negatives of these decks because imo that's pretty much all they are - negative.  Almost all the decks have a gimmick which is extremely un-fun to play against.  Can anyone honestly say they enjoy watching a mage play twenty 0 mana spells then re-fill their hand with random spells all while freezing or destroying your board?  What about a druid ramping into guardian animals while you're on turn 4?  There's no skill and no interaction.  Face rogue - you cant attack their minions and you minions mostly dont matter.  Bomb warrior - kill them before the bombs kill you? 

    I actually think Hearthstone has historically been pretty good at balancing the control/aggro relationship. Sure there were some blips, but even when face hunter was a thing there was some usable neutral healing and hunters did run out of resources (after the starving buzzard nerf).  Maybe this is all rose coloured glasses though.

    It's true you could focus on a deck you enjoy and concede when you meet decks which you know will stomp all over you.  But what's the point?  You're not really playing the game and part of the enjoyment for me has always been about trying to tune my decks to adapt to the meta.  The way hearthstone is at the moment part of that tuning is often to play a different class entirely and have a race to the face.  That's probably the most consistent way to play now.


    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 4

    posted a message on Disapointed in Hearthstone now

    Did you read it - it's clearly not a salt thread.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 11

    posted a message on Disapointed in Hearthstone now

    First off - this isn't a salt thread so if all you're going to do is post a reply with a link to the salt thread then please don't bother.  This isn't about one deck or card being OP, more about the general tone of the game.

    The main point is that I'm pretty disappointed with the direction this game has taken.  So much of what made Hearthstone Hearthstone is gone, and winning and losing seems more and more like some crazy coin flip. It feels like there's very little interactivity and too many games end up being decided by random events.  Take aggro.  It used to be that you had to manage the minions on board, play around board clears and keep some resources in hand in case there was a board reset.   Now - you just dump your hand and endlessly re-fill your hand.  Board clears have been power creeped by minions so you don't need to worry too much about those any more.  In contrast control is mostly absent because the excessive resources avialable to aggro overwhelm the available removal.

    Look at the decks which have made up the recent meta and you can see they all either have some cheesy gimick that makes them viable or they can draw their whole deck in 10 turns.  You can also see there are almost no control decks.  I've highlighted some them below but feel free to disagree.

    Mage - full RNG whether it be mana cyclone mage or highlander mage.   Whether it be a board full of 5/5's and 8/8's on turn 4 or a clutch Reno spell to turn the game RNG is the key.  Don't expect to attack with your minions either - they're too cold...Turtle mage (now dead) was also a blast to play against. 

    Hunter - mostly aggro/face these days.  Drop your hand and go face.  Use snowballing tempo tools to make some highly effecient mana plays to stop your opponent doing anything (via secrets/hero power combo).  Refill hand with voracious reader when resources are low.

    Demon Hunter - I only see soul shard DH.  Hit face every turn while removing every minion the opponent plays and doing stupidly large burst damage/mininon removal/healing at the same time.  Refill hand at will and draw entire deck by turn 10.

    Paladin - mosly libram/pure/broom - Despite all the hate paladin generated I don't actually feel this deck is too bad.  It lacks draw and can run out of resources but can also steamroll you if the minions stick.  Doesn't really do anything super cheesy appart from Argent Bragart and Lady Liadrin. Still has potential for RNG through Lightforged Crusader

    Priest - res or Gala - both feel gimicky and are influenced heavily by card draw RNG (as priest has essentially no card draw) and "created by" RNG.  Neither is fun to play against (and I say this as a former priest main) and winning is often a result of genrating the right resource at the right time (or because your opponent fell asleep). The mirror match up is a clown fiesta of the highest order!

    Warrior - two varients Bomb and Big.  Bomb warrior is close to turtle mage in terms of interaction.  Remove minions, place bombs, repeat and hopefully watch the oponent slowly die with nothing they can do - bnous points if the weapon attack goes face.  Big variant - cheat out large minions early.  Doesn't work very well in the current meta and is also heavily dependant on the order you draw your cards.

    Rogue - mostly face. Deck strategy - me go face and draw my whole deck.  You cant target my minions so they nearly all get one attack in on your face.  I never run out of cards in hand, but sometimes I still like to draw more through the secret passage. You play taunt - me sap and go face.  Did I mention I go face?

    Shaman - do people play shaman?

    Druid - I think we all know what the gimicky druid deck is/was (maybe dead now?).  The next one will be just as gimicky though with mountseller.  Oh - it also draw's it's whole deck by turn 10 with extra bonus dragons thrown in for good measure.

    Warlock - I haven't really seen a warlock on the ladder since the new expac.  Prior to this it was mostly quest OTK which removed all minions, drew it's whole deck and OTK'd -  the height of interactivity.



    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on COLOSSUS BIG PALADIN

    I've been messing around with this deck and I think it has some legs.  I don't have Turalyon, the Tenured, Colossus of the Moon or Nozdormu the Timeless so I replced them with a 9/9 rush dude and the 10/10 taunt dude.  Given I have no minion to pull on 4 I also swapped out the two Call to adventure and replaced them with another redemption and a Underlight Angling Rod for some early board control.  I don't want to draw my minions on turn 3 when I cant play them till turn 8 (even if they do get a buff).

    I don't think I've come up against any decks which feel like they hard counter it (except maybe rogue with sap/blackjack stunner) but  Lightforged blessing proved essential in many of the match-up's to help stabilise in the mid game.  The combination of redemption and the bid deathrattle boys means there's a decent chance a minion sticks for the buff.  I've climbed from Bronze to Platinum so far an played maybe 20 games and it's definitely sporting a positive win rate.  The ladder just got reset though so take that with a pinch of salt.

    The key decisions for this deck are when to play your ceremonial maul so that you don't cock up with low mana spells and when to stick down a redemption.  There's definitely some advance turn planning required.  You can bait out removal with Blessing of Authority to give the larger minions a chance.  Don't be too greedy with the spellburst on the maul - 4+ mana cost seemed to work for me.

    Like all decks if you draw bad you lose but that's maybe more true with this deck that others as a starting hand of 8+ mana cards is an auto-loss given the speed of many decks.

  • 6

    posted a message on Patch 18.4 nerfs!!

    I dont think Guardian Animals is the real culprate otherwise you might see it played in hunter.  The real issue is the stupendous card draw provided by Guardian Animals when it pulls Twilight Runner.  Druid has always had ramp but it used to leave you without any resources.  Now Twilight Runner and Overflow allow for silly card draw and the downside of these cards are often insignificant compared to the mana the opponent is likely to have in response.

    I think a better "nerf" would have been to buff Twilight Runner stat wise and and make it cost 6.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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